Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i did try to explain it but you didn't get it and that's ok.

Yeah, I think I'd want to get as far away from this if I were you too.

my question is still open... not trying to get away from it at all. looking for SAS supporters/followers to answer it. you admitted to not understanding... like i said... that's ok.

I'm going to quote what I think your question is first, before I answer.

has he brought up such issues when non-black coaches are let go either this offseason or in the past whether football or basketball?

SAS actually talks about several African American coaches that should be fired all the time.....even Lovie Smith, when he was in Chicago. But he disagreed with how and why he was fired from Tampa. And yes he calls out non African American coaches as well. But he has questioned why non African American coaches with bad records are in their position longer than an African American (or hispanic or non white) coach like Smith.....Then they replace coaches like Smith and the replacement coach gets all the glory, which SAS explains this will happen in Tampa. He used Golden State as an example, and how Steve Kerr and Luke Walton are enjoying the fruits of labor that Mark Jackson created, when GS was a bad team.

So when it comes to coaches that should get fired or have been fired, he doesn't discriminate. But during this recent debate, he used the Lovie Smith firing as a platform to discuss how the system in the NFL (more importantly the Rooney Rule) isn't helping the hiring of more African Americans, but its making it worst. And how the league is over 85% African American, but there's only 4 that are head coaches, and how that number will only get smaller with this Rooney Rule.

Exposing the flaws of a system that was designed to fix the problem, is actually hurting the problem. Now Herm Edwards chimed in and agreed. I'm sure more will follow and the Rooney Rule or some other rule will be added or adjusted to again try to fix a systematic flaw.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Vmart wrote:Mickey Mouse is totally disgusted with ESPN. I might be the only one who thinks this but Steven A. Smith is all about race. The way he treated Jeremy Lin or KP for that matter led me to think it was more about race than the player.

My own feeling is that Porzingis was dismissed by some on this forum during our pre-draft arguments because of non-basketball reasons.

Might be a form of racial karma that this kind of thing can happen in the U.S. right now...expect that many great black athletes never got a chance or were disparaged by the white versions of SAS who dominated the sports world.

Somewhere in the spirit world the great Negro League ballplayers like Josh Gibson are chuckling at how things have changed.

The fruits of this land that we live and sleep on was built on racial discrimination, racial bigotry and racial issues. But as soon as a loud mouth African American talks about somebody other than African Americans, it's a racial thing. What about when he called to have Marvin Lewis fired SEVERAL times over the years......How come nobody is saying he's all about race then? This is who Stephen A Smith is.....He talks about anybody and everybody in relations to sports. Some of us need to look in the mirror and think to ourselves why we turn every discussion into a racial discussion? Why can't someone say KP sucks, without being a racist? Why can't someone say Jeremy Lin will never be a good NBA player without being a racist? Thats the problem we have today. Racial sensitivity!

Someone from another race cannot call out a player thats a different race, without being ridiculed for being a racist. It's a debate....and SAS is debating from his perspective. The other guys sees it from his perpective. Both come from different backgrounds and talk about things based on their own history. Period! It's not racist.....It's a discussion called 1st Take!

StarksEwing1 wrote:I guess im in the minority but i dont have much of a problem with Stephen A. Sure he goes off the rails sometimes but he is a knick fan after all lol. He has been pretty fair about the past 15 years which have been a disaster for our knicks. He was wrong about KP but he never said he was gonna be a bust, he simply said it would take a few years. Hell even the most optimistic knick fans expected KP to take a couple years to show results. Im not a stepen a fan but i dont dislike the guy like many fans do

On the other hand he loudly proclaimed he came in from vacation and felt "Hoodwinked and Bamboozled" by the pick. I generally don't have a problem with what he say's but the dramatic presentation behind it adds a sense of urgency and intensity. Its his shtick and he is good at it.

My feeling about SAS is he sensationalizes lots of things and racial issue are one he is good at.

Nalod wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I guess im in the minority but i dont have much of a problem with Stephen A. Sure he goes off the rails sometimes but he is a knick fan after all lol. He has been pretty fair about the past 15 years which have been a disaster for our knicks. He was wrong about KP but he never said he was gonna be a bust, he simply said it would take a few years. Hell even the most optimistic knick fans expected KP to take a couple years to show results. Im not a stepen a fan but i dont dislike the guy like many fans do

On the other hand he loudly proclaimed he came in from vacation and felt "Hoodwinked and Bamboozled" by the pick. I generally don't have a problem with what he say's but the dramatic presentation behind it adds a sense of urgency and intensity. Its his shtick and he is good at it.

My feeling about SAS is he sensationalizes lots of things and racial issue are one he is good at.

blkexec wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Vmart wrote:Mickey Mouse is totally disgusted with ESPN. I might be the only one who thinks this but Steven A. Smith is all about race. The way he treated Jeremy Lin or KP for that matter led me to think it was more about race than the player.

My own feeling is that Porzingis was dismissed by some on this forum during our pre-draft arguments because of non-basketball reasons.

Might be a form of racial karma that this kind of thing can happen in the U.S. right now...expect that many great black athletes never got a chance or were disparaged by the white versions of SAS who dominated the sports world.

Somewhere in the spirit world the great Negro League ballplayers like Josh Gibson are chuckling at how things have changed.

The fruits of this land that we live and sleep on was built on racial discrimination, racial bigotry and racial issues. But as soon as a loud mouth African American talks about somebody other than African Americans, it's a racial thing. What about when he called to have Marvin Lewis fired SEVERAL times over the years......How come nobody is saying he's all about race then? This is who Stephen A Smith is.....He talks about anybody and everybody in relations to sports. Some of us need to look in the mirror and think to ourselves why we turn every discussion into a racial discussion? Why can't someone say KP sucks, without being a racist? Why can't someone say Jeremy Lin will never be a good NBA player without being a racist? Thats the problem we have today. Racial sensitivity!

Someone from another race cannot call out a player thats a different race, without being ridiculed for being a racist. It's a debate....and SAS is debating from his perspective. The other guys sees it from his perpective. Both come from different backgrounds and talk about things based on their own history. Period! It's not racist.....It's a discussion called 1st Take!

"disparaged by the white versions of SAS"

I think there are times when you see/hear an argument about someone or something that makes little sense and you look at other factors which might tell you where the person making the argument is coming from. Sometimes this will involve race, ethnic, or religious issues.

When I listened to folks compare Porzingis to almost every tall, slender, light skinned, European from the past 20 years, and never mention any darker skinned comps, I had to believe that there might be something else behind the way some (Not all!) were thinking. No hard proof...just speculation.

There were plenty of legit arguments against picking Porzingis- my reaction was to the folks he was being compared to, not that someone didn't want him for a good reason.

I know your posts and that you were a serious ball player...I know that you look at a guy's game, and nothing else.

I never saw the Lin criticism as racist, by the way...was more of a power struggle, with MDA and Lin on one side, and Anthony on the other.

blkexec wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

blkexec wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Vmart wrote:Mickey Mouse is totally disgusted with ESPN. I might be the only one who thinks this but Steven A. Smith is all about race. The way he treated Jeremy Lin or KP for that matter led me to think it was more about race than the player.

My own feeling is that Porzingis was dismissed by some on this forum during our pre-draft arguments because of non-basketball reasons.

Might be a form of racial karma that this kind of thing can happen in the U.S. right now...expect that many great black athletes never got a chance or were disparaged by the white versions of SAS who dominated the sports world.

Somewhere in the spirit world the great Negro League ballplayers like Josh Gibson are chuckling at how things have changed.

The fruits of this land that we live and sleep on was built on racial discrimination, racial bigotry and racial issues. But as soon as a loud mouth African American talks about somebody other than African Americans, it's a racial thing. What about when he called to have Marvin Lewis fired SEVERAL times over the years......How come nobody is saying he's all about race then? This is who Stephen A Smith is.....He talks about anybody and everybody in relations to sports. Some of us need to look in the mirror and think to ourselves why we turn every discussion into a racial discussion? Why can't someone say KP sucks, without being a racist? Why can't someone say Jeremy Lin will never be a good NBA player without being a racist? Thats the problem we have today. Racial sensitivity!

Someone from another race cannot call out a player thats a different race, without being ridiculed for being a racist. It's a debate....and SAS is debating from his perspective. The other guys sees it from his perpective. Both come from different backgrounds and talk about things based on their own history. Period! It's not racist.....It's a discussion called 1st Take!

I don't watch SAS enough to know if he has any racist leanings. I did reread my SAS comment,

"disparaged by the white versions of SAS"

and can see that I might have come across as accusing him of being something that I don't think he is. (Sorry SAS). I think I just meant "white" commentators or reporters (since I don't think they had opinion shows about sports during the height of racist America) who might have said disparaging things about African-Americans at one time. SAS was the guy making the comments, so I used him. Awkward writing on my part.

I think there are times when you see/hear an argument about someone or something that makes little sense and you look at other factors which might tell you where the person making the argument is coming from. Sometimes this will involve race, ethnic, or religious issues.

When I listened to folks compare Porzingis to almost every tall, slender, light skinned, European from the past 20 years, and never mention any darker skinned comps, I had to believe that there might be something else behind the way some (Not all!) were thinking. No hard proof...just speculation.

There were plenty of legit arguments against picking Porzingis- my reaction was to the folks he was being compared to, not that someone didn't want him for a good reason.

I know your posts and that you were a serious ball player...I know that you look at a guy's game, and nothing else.

I never saw the Lin criticism as racist, by the way...was more of a power struggle, with MDA and Lin on one side, and Anthony on the other.

I was actually responding to the highlighted statement by Vmart. But we are all guilty of using a similar of race when comparing someone. I don't think there's anything behind that except a lazy human nature of solving problems. At the same time, I'm not old enough to remember tall African Americans like KP with a jumper, but I'm sure before the 3 pt line, the league was full of them. Once it became a guard game, those guys were forced overseas....and the traditional back to the basket big man was born.....Just my guess. I'll let the older guys comment on that era.

I used to compare KP's defense to WCS....but his offense was easier to use Dirk as a comparison. I liked Lins game....But I thought he had to be the featured player to sustain that run. But I always like guards who can get to the rim.

I was currious to see how this thread would turn out since most are against SAS, and I always felt inside it was for other reasons.....Because I thought Skip Bayless can be just as annoying on the same topics....just not as animated. I'm just the minority on this site who enjoys their show, and per the recent report on ESPN ratings, I'm not the only one.

Speaking of basketball.....if the knicks don't come out strong in the 4th, I'm leaving early to play some hoops before it gets too late. Guess I still can't get enough.....If I didn't have a jumper, I would've retired already!

Nevermind...Lets Go Melo....Wakeup!

Cartman718 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14549971/study-nfl-coaching-diversity-crisis

Freudian slip of the year.
http://football.realgm.com/wiretap/36030/White-Coaches-Twice-As-Lucky-To-Be-Promoted-Than-Black-Counterparts

GustavBahler wrote:Just a quick update on the Lovie Smith firing. Apparently they were going to bring Lovie in for a meeting to fire him, the GM gave him a heads up, and he wouldnt come to the meeting.

Lovie's specialty was defense and the defense was awful. He took over play calling duties from Frazier after things cratered last season, and it regressed further. Ownership wanted to bring in some people from the outside to run the defense, and all Lovie said he would do is hire a consultant he knew from the Bears to give him some advice. Insane.

I see on ESPN that they're trying to sell Lovie as a victim. As a fan who watches every Bucs game, you had to watch the product on the field to see what an awful job he was doing. I give Lovie credit for hiring the OC, but after that it was a 2 year dumpster fire with 3 home wins in 2 seasons.

Heard that story, too, and forgot to add it here.

Didn't want to go through the process and the press, I would think. Not a bad idea- gives him time to compose himself and not say something in anger which might hurt his future.

I think I would have done the same thing.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Just a quick update on the Lovie Smith firing. Apparently they were going to bring Lovie in for a meeting to fire him, the GM gave him a heads up, and he wouldnt come to the meeting.

Lovie's specialty was defense and the defense was awful. He took over play calling duties from Frazier after things cratered last season, and it regressed further. Ownership wanted to bring in some people from the outside to run the defense, and all Lovie said he would do is hire a consultant he knew from the Bears to give him some advice. Insane.

I see on ESPN that they're trying to sell Lovie as a victim. As a fan who watches every Bucs game, you had to watch the product on the field to see what an awful job he was doing. I give Lovie credit for hiring the OC, but after that it was a 2 year dumpster fire with 3 home wins in 2 seasons.

The real reason Lovie got fired was he had the 5th ranked offense and the 10th ranked defense and managed a 6-10 record. With those kind of rankings it puts the onus on the coach because now it's not about talent level but more about motivation and decision making.

Wrong, wasnt just that. Owners have a big problem selling season tickets when you win 3 home games in two seasons. The Bucs were 25th in the league in points differential, while having one of the best offenses in the league. They were the most penalized team in the league while he was coach which spoke to the lack of discipline.

Smith gave big contracts to players who turned out to be busts here. You hire your kids to coach in the NFL, he better have some experience. He let Revis go instead of changing his outdated D to maximise the talents of the best corner in the NFL. He had total control over hiring, it was his job as de facto GM that did him in as well. Happy Smith got fired.