dk7th wrote:

remember the 54-18 season? melo had a 35.6% usage and a 14.1% assist rate fro a 2.52:1 ratio, an absurd ratio. the knicks were on borrowed time because they did not develop a way to play that could be sustained in the playoffs, a style of play that could withstand injuries. instead woodson relied on jason kidd and later prigioni-- too late in my opinion-- to get some extra wins of the empty-calorie, fool's gold variety. there is such a thing as winning the wrong way. woodson proved that.

edit: this season melo's usg:ast is so far the lowest of his career, at 1.57:1 and should trend lower as the team continues to gel through the 50th game of the season. by game fifty we should have a very good idea of what this team will become.

this part i agree with.

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

You guys are totally misreading that Fisher quote. He's saying they have to continue to play hard whether they're up by 20 or down by 20. No part of that quote is saying wins and losses don't matter.

playing hard is a given. playing the right way is not a given. jackson believes in system basketball. fisher wants to make sure his players are playing the right way every possession as part of that plan/system. the inference is there to be made, i made it.

you leapt to your own conclusions from something that wasn't there.

okey doke

franco12 wrote:no way we win 45. Maybe 40, but likely high 30's - 37-39.

If we were going to win 45, we would have beaten Orlando last night. We're just not that good yet.

franco12 wrote:no way we win 45. Maybe 40, but likely high 30's - 37-39.

If we were going to win 45, we would have beaten Orlando last night. We're just not that good yet.

zero chance they win 45 without some kind of in season trade that lands a very good player. 37-39 much more likely. If they finished .500 it would be a huge win. Its just to bad its not the old east because .500 would be the 6th seed in most years

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:no way we win 45. Maybe 40, but likely high 30's - 37-39.

If we were going to win 45, we would have beaten Orlando last night. We're just not that good yet.

50ish games to get there... thats the point

I agree we're going to get better as the year goes on.

So, after 50 games, give me that we're 2 under 500. 24 & 26.

During the last 32 games, to get to 45 wins, we'd have to win 21 and lose only 11. That is 656 ball, and I don't see us turning in to GS overnight.

Lets say we're 500 - 25 & 25- you're still looking at an unlikely feat.

To get to 45 wins, we have to win 31 games and lose only 22 games.

That is 584 ball, and I don't see that coming out of this squad.

I've seen flashes of good play, but not enough to sustain that kind of winning percentage over the remainder of the season.

Fish- I respect you and usually agree, but I hate to say this - you're wrong! There is no way this squad gets to 45 wins this season.

Now, I hope I'm wrong, but thinking about this rationally, and factoring in the play that we've seen so far, I think its hard to see how we can get there.

Its still such a new group.. the picture is getting clearer but its so far from being done. We have barely settled on the rotation, barely... and there are still guys up in the air, namely Grant, Seraphin.

Im not expecting a miracle, but I see a lot of areas I expect to improve simply through reps.

Time will tell.

45? Miracles can happen but at 500 : 1

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:I expect more ups and downs but at 14-14 and 30ish games in we are seeing a couple things that will critical to this making the playoffs in a very deep East where its prob going to take 45 wins to get in, and it could be higher.

1) Melo is 31 years young. Im not an NBA player, but Ive had a major knee reconstruction and played sports from 21-39. If an age sticks out at me as my best it was 31.... I still had the leftovers of 20's athleticism but the start of my 30's maturity. A perfect mix. We have heard the quotes and stories about Melo changing his game after his long time off and that's nice... some nights we have seen it more than others. The most promising thing was the bouncy athleticism Melo showed last night. On the 2nd night of a b2b (soft one, granted) he was beating good defenders like Butler right off the dribble for layups. He was showing that great 2nd leap, which was once one of the best in the league. An alley oop? Those are some huge signs for this team, because that is the Melo that can carry a team for month while the team goes 12-4. That's that POTM Melo, that we last saw two years ago when he almost single handedly turned that season around to get that team into the post season.

2) KP is tough. Of all the wonderful things we have seen from this player the one that tells me most is when he rips down a board in traffic and moves those arms as to say if you want to try and rip this ball out of my grip your arms are coming out of their sockets. Durability has yet to be addressed but he certainly knows how to translate his length and quickness into physical play. He TODAY possess bot a power game and a finesse game.

What we have seen the last 4 games is the rest of the team feeding off this dynamic duo. KOQ is cleaning up. Galloway is flying around doing his thing and AA has the deep skill set to take advantage of the space those two are creating.

why is making the playoffs that important?

I think trying to make the playoffs is very important for the players. I am sure that the team has goals and making the playoffs is one of them.

maybe the players, but not fisher and jackson. fisher has made it pretty clear that the goal is not how many wins they get but how the team plays and develops into a cohesive unit with a bedrock culture that will last for years and years. if it were not for kp6 i doubt the playoffs are even being discussed.

do you think we are in "win-now" mode? i cannot make an assessment of this team until it has played 50 games.

You have spoken with Fisher and Jackson? Winning games is always the goal. Remember that's why we picked 4th and not first. Tell me what you see or have heard from Fisher or PHil for that matter that indicates there is any intention above winning as many games as they can. Crazy talk.. this is pro sports. We aren't Phili

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

Wins and loses dont matter ? Wtf?

Are you trying to tell me that losing helps? Oh yeah...in what capacity, losing is a culture, if your losing close games thats mentally crushing, if your losing games by double digits, your force to revamp your roster, and start all over next season with same stupid idea that wins dont matter.

Winning is everything in my book.Builds confidence, builds chemistry, builds culture, makes you an attractive destination.

Losing brings doubt, fingers start pointing, locker rooms become divided, and you start 2nd guessing everything, so please explain to me the benefits of losing.

I agree.

I miss Jeremy Lin and winning

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:I expect more ups and downs but at 14-14 and 30ish games in we are seeing a couple things that will critical to this making the playoffs in a very deep East where its prob going to take 45 wins to get in, and it could be higher.

1) Melo is 31 years young. Im not an NBA player, but Ive had a major knee reconstruction and played sports from 21-39. If an age sticks out at me as my best it was 31.... I still had the leftovers of 20's athleticism but the start of my 30's maturity. A perfect mix. We have heard the quotes and stories about Melo changing his game after his long time off and that's nice... some nights we have seen it more than others. The most promising thing was the bouncy athleticism Melo showed last night. On the 2nd night of a b2b (soft one, granted) he was beating good defenders like Butler right off the dribble for layups. He was showing that great 2nd leap, which was once one of the best in the league. An alley oop? Those are some huge signs for this team, because that is the Melo that can carry a team for month while the team goes 12-4. That's that POTM Melo, that we last saw two years ago when he almost single handedly turned that season around to get that team into the post season.

2) KP is tough. Of all the wonderful things we have seen from this player the one that tells me most is when he rips down a board in traffic and moves those arms as to say if you want to try and rip this ball out of my grip your arms are coming out of their sockets. Durability has yet to be addressed but he certainly knows how to translate his length and quickness into physical play. He TODAY possess bot a power game and a finesse game.

What we have seen the last 4 games is the rest of the team feeding off this dynamic duo. KOQ is cleaning up. Galloway is flying around doing his thing and AA has the deep skill set to take advantage of the space those two are creating.

why is making the playoffs that important?

I think trying to make the playoffs is very important for the players. I am sure that the team has goals and making the playoffs is one of them.

maybe the players, but not fisher and jackson. fisher has made it pretty clear that the goal is not how many wins they get but how the team plays and develops into a cohesive unit with a bedrock culture that will last for years and years. if it were not for kp6 i doubt the playoffs are even being discussed.

do you think we are in "win-now" mode? i cannot make an assessment of this team until it has played 50 games.

You have spoken with Fisher and Jackson? Winning games is always the goal. Remember that's why we picked 4th and not first. Tell me what you see or have heard from Fisher or PHil for that matter that indicates there is any intention above winning as many games as they can. Crazy talk.. this is pro sports. We aren't Phili

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

Wins and loses dont matter ? Wtf?

Are you trying to tell me that losing helps? Oh yeah...in what capacity, losing is a culture, if your losing close games thats mentally crushing, if your losing games by double digits, your force to revamp your roster, and start all over next season with same stupid idea that wins dont matter.

Winning is everything in my book.Builds confidence, builds chemistry, builds culture, makes you an attractive destination.

Losing brings doubt, fingers start pointing, locker rooms become divided, and you start 2nd guessing everything, so please explain to me the benefits of losing.

I agree.

I miss Jeremy Lin and winning

Hopefully the Knicks have another historic stretch where they face 5 out of 7 teams that end up with top ten lottery picks that they beat and they bring up a player that leaves because he chooses to sign a poison pill deal the knicks can't match. That way the franchise can have another marytr who's self improving actions are ignored and
he is championed forever.
Where to find the gospel.
http://www.jeremylintel.com/