crzymdups wrote:

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

Who doesn't though? Poor picture trying to be painted there. CP3 is in the downside of his great career but still putting up respectable numbers. Melo the last couple of years, abysmal.

CP3 in his prime is in illustrious Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Isiah company.

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

Who doesn't though? Poor picture trying to be painted there. CP3 is in the downside of his great career but still putting up respectable numbers. Melo the last couple of years, abysmal.

CP3 in his prime is in illustrious Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Isiah company.

One reason that I don't trust win shares is that win shares say that CP3 is better than Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Isiah. I saw all those guys play and they had an understanding of the game, especially in the final 2 minutes that I have never felt from CP3.

Honestly, certain advanced stats notwithstanding, I do think Melo and CP3 are good comps to one another.

Neither has made it to the Finals, neither has won an MVP. Both are widely respected around the league as a great player, hall of famer, multiple time Olympian credited with turning around the USA basketball program after the embarassment of 2004.

Both guys have played at stacked positions their whole career in terms of the league. Melo had to compete with Bron, Durant, Pierce, Paul George. CP3 had to go up against Deron Williams early, Nash, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker, Kyrie, Derrick Rose, etc etc etc. Statistically you could say CP3 has been the best PG overall of the past ten years - but 4 times in the past 10 years a point guard has won the MVP - and it has never been CP3. Nash x 2, Curry, Rose. No CP3mvp. Same for Melo - 5 times a small forward has won MVP - 4x Bron, 1x Durant. No Melo MVP.

Watch both guys, Melo and CP3, sometime in the end game - they make the same kinds of mistakes, if you ask me. CP3 does the Isiah thing where he passes all game long and then the final 3-4 minutes, he goes ISO CP3. And it often fails, the same as Melo does.

To me CP3 and Melo are very very similar. CP3 has the better roster around him now in LA than Melo does, but still can't get out of the second round.

Both are great great players. It is looking likely that neither will lead their team to the Finals in their career or be the best guy on their team if one of their teams ever makes the Finals at this point.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.

Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.

Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?

People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

I could care less if a player makes it out of a round in the playoffs. I care if they played well or they were a big part of the reason for the team not making it.

If you look at CP3 stats, he may be from the best post season players that have played in the last 20 years. He is only one guy and can only do his best.

Melo on the other hand has stunk in the playoffs and was never anything close to CP3 in the regular season either.

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .247 (CRAZY SH1T!)
Melo - .136 (good - average in .100 so well above average)

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .200 (Elite Elite!)
Melo - .106 (oy vey!)

oh ... and lets not forget that Cp3 is an elite elite defender

as far as getting abused by curry and westbrook, everyone gets abused by them now and Cp3 aint a kid but he is still an excellent defender.

Isiah Thomas WS48 regular season: .109
Isiah Thomas WS48 postseason: .143

Jason Kidd WS48 regular season: .133
Jason Kidd WS48 postseason: .113

I have no idea what win shares count or how they were determined, but maybe they aren't the end all and be all of rating a player's effectiveness. (I suspect they are heavily weighted to favor the three pointer and Melo never took more than 2.5 3s a game in Denver - his 3pt attempts more than doubled in NY under D'Antoni and Woodson, and coincidentally his win shares went up.)

And looking at their career regular season records, Melo and CP3 are actually quite close there, too.

First ten seasons in the league CP3's team: 474-330.

First ten seasons in the league Melo's team: 470-334.

And I find it hard to believe you wouldn't judge a player's playoffs career when assessing their career. CP3's playoffs career has been extremely disappointing. Especially since the Clippers have been favored to come out of the west by a lot of people for the past three seasons and haven't come close.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.

Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.

Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?

People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

I could care less if a player makes it out of a round in the playoffs. I care if they played well or they were a big part of the reason for the team not making it.

If you look at CP3 stats, he may be from the best post season players that have played in the last 20 years. He is only one guy and can only do his best.

Melo on the other hand has stunk in the playoffs and was never anything close to CP3 in the regular season either.

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .247 (CRAZY SH1T!)
Melo - .136 (good - average in .100 so well above average)

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .200 (Elite Elite!)
Melo - .106 (oy vey!)

oh ... and lets not forget that Cp3 is an elite elite defender

as far as getting abused by curry and westbrook, everyone gets abused by them now and Cp3 aint a kid but he is still an excellent defender.

Isiah Thomas WS48 regular season: .109
Isiah Thomas WS48 postseason: .143

Jason Kidd WS48 regular season: .133
Jason Kidd WS48 postseason: .113

I have no idea what win shares count or how they were determined, but maybe they aren't the end all and be all of rating a player's effectiveness.

And looking at their career regular season records, Melo and CP3 are actually quite close there, too.

First ten seasons in the league CP3's team: 474-330.

First ten seasons in the league Melo's team: 470-334.

And I find it hard to believe you wouldn't judge a player's playoffs career when assessing their career. CP3's playoffs career has been extremely disappointing. Especially since the Clippers have been favored to come out of the west by a lot of people for the past three seasons and haven't come close.

Hard to really compare players numbers today to then. Hand checking made it different. Also, back then, it was ok to be inefficient though guys like Stockton were never inefficient (which just shows how underrated he was). Isiah also was also not a very efficient shooter and had many many stinky years at the end of his career. If he played like that today, it would not be that impressive.

CP3 has had disappointed losses but those were really team losses not CP3 losses. Again, I look to how he played in both New Orleans and LA. He always played great.

Hey, I enjoy watching CP3 - but I'm not being disingenuous saying that I've compared his career and Melo's career before in my head. I think both have been stellar players who have come up short in the playoffs. And I think it is a mix of the wrong types of personnel/teams being built around them and also a little bit to their with their personalities and games. More so the first, but you can't discount the latter in either scenario. When things got tight against Houston in the second round last spring, CP3 was pointing fingers, cussing out DAJ on the floor. One of the reasons DAJ agreed to go to Dallas (for 36 hours, at least.)

I think it is fair to say that CP3 is the more statistically complete player compared to Melo. But to me they are connected in having similarly disappointing careers in terms of post-season success. Chris Paul has blown series leads in the second round at least twice that I remember extremely clearly ('08 to the Spurs and '15 to the Rockets).

And to be honest, I think it is fair to say that CP3 has gotten to play with much better rosters over the years than Melo has. Blake is the best player either of them ever played with.

They are both excellent players and the only place, to me, you can question their games at all is as leaders and for their post-season success or lack thereof.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.

Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.

Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?

People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

I could care less if a player makes it out of a round in the playoffs. I care if they played well or they were a big part of the reason for the team not making it.

If you look at CP3 stats, he may be from the best post season players that have played in the last 20 years. He is only one guy and can only do his best.

Melo on the other hand has stunk in the playoffs and was never anything close to CP3 in the regular season either.

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .247 (CRAZY SH1T!)
Melo - .136 (good - average in .100 so well above average)

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .200 (Elite Elite!)
Melo - .106 (oy vey!)

oh ... and lets not forget that Cp3 is an elite elite defender

as far as getting abused by curry and westbrook, everyone gets abused by them now and Cp3 aint a kid but he is still an excellent defender.

Isiah Thomas WS48 regular season: .109
Isiah Thomas WS48 postseason: .143

Jason Kidd WS48 regular season: .133
Jason Kidd WS48 postseason: .113

I have no idea what win shares count or how they were determined, but maybe they aren't the end all and be all of rating a player's effectiveness.

And looking at their career regular season records, Melo and CP3 are actually quite close there, too.

First ten seasons in the league CP3's team: 474-330.

First ten seasons in the league Melo's team: 470-334.

And I find it hard to believe you wouldn't judge a player's playoffs career when assessing their career. CP3's playoffs career has been extremely disappointing. Especially since the Clippers have been favored to come out of the west by a lot of people for the past three seasons and haven't come close.

Hard to really compare players numbers today to then. Hand checking made it different. Also, back then, it was ok to be inefficient though guys like Stockton were never inefficient (which just shows how underrated he was). Isiah also was also not a very efficient shooter and had many many stinky years at the end of his career. If he played like that today, it would not be that impressive.

CP3 has had disappointed losses but those were really team losses not CP3 losses. Again, I look to how he played in both New Orleans and LA. He always played great.

Hey, I enjoy watching CP3 - but I'm not being disingenuous saying that I've compared his career and Melo's career before in my head. I think both have been stellar players who have come up short in the playoffs. And I think it is a mix of the wrong types of personnel/teams being built around them and also a little bit to their with their personalities and games. More so the first, but you can't discount the latter in either scenario. When things got tight against Houston in the second round last spring, CP3 was pointing fingers, cussing out DAJ on the floor. One of the reasons DAJ agreed to go to Dallas (for 36 hours, at least.)

I think it is fair to say that CP3 is the more statistically complete player compared to Melo. But to me they are connected in having similarly disappointing careers in terms of post-season success. Chris Paul has blown series leads in the second round at least twice that I remember extremely clearly ('08 to the Spurs and '15 to the Rockets).

And to be honest, I think it is fair to say that CP3 has gotten to play with much better rosters over the years than Melo has. Blake is the best player either of them ever played with.

They are both excellent players and the only place, to me, you can question their games at all is as leaders and for their post-season success or lack thereof.

I don't even like Cp3 as a person, I actually really dislike him. However, its just not close other then not winning. There are many guys who haven't won. Cp3 always played great. Did he always play perfect? No he did not but he always needed to carry his teams.

Denver was much better then this clipper team, especially the one that had Billups, and I really think that Blake's game does not translate well.

The only way to make your argument is if you completely ignore stats and just go with a vague eye test and very loose/meaningless comparisons.

Billups won in Detroit so does that mean he is better than CP3? Of course not. Wins and losses are not on the player unless that player did not play well. Cp3 has been a super super superstar playoff performer. You want to find spots where he failed? I can find you many spots where all time greats did not have good moments.

Melo has for the most part been a colossal failure in the playoffs. He is similar to Aldridge that they both take really really stupid macho shots that are just not gonna help your teams in the playoffs.

RonRon wrote:I believe CA has been trying to FIT IN while he has tried moving the ball much more this season and give much more efffort in DEFENSE as well

However, we simply do not have the weapons needed, for better BALL AND PLAYER movement, along with shooters to spread the floor
Therefore we need to upgrade our roster to execute a philosophy

I still believe CA plays his best at PF, while the combination of Lopez, KP, and CA is simply too slow and has too many weakness together on BOTH OFF and DEF
At least until KP can take advantage of his mismatches and get stronger, while developing his skills and body

ROLO needs to also improve his lack of OFFENSE and poor hands, along with a more consistent FREE THROW DISTANCE shot that he is capable of making
He currently is a HUGE liability on OFFENSE and isn't good enough in DEFENSE/REBOUNDING/SHOT BLOCKING to START with our roster
Though he is 26 and could improve and has a strong work ethic like Jared Jeffries improved from his 1st stinct to 2nd stinct
If we can trade him with the Centers available this summer, I would do so

With some other players from the other post I made,
Though we can improve with smaller contracts like

Ish Smith (as there will be a HUGE crop of PGs to chose from in 1 1/2 year)
Shabazz Muhmmedd (who is available in trade talks eventually)

Evan Turner

David Lee/Josh Smith

Lance Stephnson/Tony Wroten

With Durant being in a contract year and the rise of the cap, will OKC keep both Westbrook and Durant? At 30m per year? And Ibaka will be looking for an extension as well with Triston Thompson setting the market...
Or may Westbrook seek to go to another team, whether Durant resigns or not, could give him an incentive to leave, especially to a larger market to promote his branding
MSG and Westbrook would give each other ENERGY like no other arena, while IMO, Westbrook needs a system to tweak his style of play to being a more efficient player on BOTH ENDS
IF Westbrook wanted to force his way out of OKC to NYK's, he could, rather than being a possible pawn in signing an extension with 2 alphas in OKC and being known as a cheap low market team while Dolan would overpay for him till he is 38

Evan Turner and D Lee are two players I would love to see with this team. Josh Smith? Hell no. ET would give us the big guard capability who often thrive in the triangle. Calderon and Seraphin need to get traded. As much as I would love to keep cleantony around, if we could move him for a draft pick or a three point specialist, I would be very happy.

As for Carmelo, I have no doubt that this dude will have a very strong winter. He will even compete for player of the month by next month.

Why in the world is Stevenson playing so poorly?? It seems as if he can only play for Larry Bird. No one else has been able to salvage his talent.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.

Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.

Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?

People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

I could care less if a player makes it out of a round in the playoffs. I care if they played well or they were a big part of the reason for the team not making it.

If you look at CP3 stats, he may be from the best post season players that have played in the last 20 years. He is only one guy and can only do his best.

Melo on the other hand has stunk in the playoffs and was never anything close to CP3 in the regular season either.

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .247 (CRAZY SH1T!)
Melo - .136 (good - average in .100 so well above average)

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .200 (Elite Elite!)
Melo - .106 (oy vey!)

oh ... and lets not forget that Cp3 is an elite elite defender

as far as getting abused by curry and westbrook, everyone gets abused by them now and Cp3 aint a kid but he is still an excellent defender.

Isiah Thomas WS48 regular season: .109
Isiah Thomas WS48 postseason: .143

Jason Kidd WS48 regular season: .133
Jason Kidd WS48 postseason: .113

I have no idea what win shares count or how they were determined, but maybe they aren't the end all and be all of rating a player's effectiveness. (I suspect they are heavily weighted to favor the three pointer and Melo never took more than 2.5 3s a game in Denver - his 3pt attempts more than doubled in NY under D'Antoni and Woodson, and coincidentally his win shares went up.)

And looking at their career regular season records, Melo and CP3 are actually quite close there, too.

First ten seasons in the league CP3's team: 474-330.

First ten seasons in the league Melo's team: 470-334.

And I find it hard to believe you wouldn't judge a player's playoffs career when assessing their career. CP3's playoffs career has been extremely disappointing. Especially since the Clippers have been favored to come out of the west by a lot of people for the past three seasons and haven't come close.

Are the win shares wrong or is the perception of Isiah and Kidd wrong? I suspect it's a bit of both.

Nobody really checked players on these stats like hitting your shots at a high rate. As long as you looked good and dribbled fast or took and hit some really inefficient shots, the eye test was happy.

How come players don't do this today (at least not the good ones)? Because its not acceptable and they need to be answered for.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

you kidding me? Thats a joke. CP3 is one of the best PG's of all time. Rings are about context ... he always played great. Like off the charts great.

Cp3 and melo are worlds apart and anyone who thinks different is completely missing the boat.

Honest question - isn't he held to the same standard of making his teammates better that Melo is? Why hasn't he ever made it out of the second round?

People used to ride Melo and Tmac for this all the time - not making it out of the second round. It's sort of funny to me that you don't hear it about CP3 as much.

And for an all-time great at PG, he sure gets abused by Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook quite a bit.

I could care less if a player makes it out of a round in the playoffs. I care if they played well or they were a big part of the reason for the team not making it.

If you look at CP3 stats, he may be from the best post season players that have played in the last 20 years. He is only one guy and can only do his best.

Melo on the other hand has stunk in the playoffs and was never anything close to CP3 in the regular season either.

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .247 (CRAZY SH1T!)
Melo - .136 (good - average in .100 so well above average)

WS48 regular season:

CP3 - .200 (Elite Elite!)
Melo - .106 (oy vey!)

oh ... and lets not forget that Cp3 is an elite elite defender

as far as getting abused by curry and westbrook, everyone gets abused by them now and Cp3 aint a kid but he is still an excellent defender.

Isiah Thomas WS48 regular season: .109
Isiah Thomas WS48 postseason: .143

Jason Kidd WS48 regular season: .133
Jason Kidd WS48 postseason: .113

I have no idea what win shares count or how they were determined, but maybe they aren't the end all and be all of rating a player's effectiveness. (I suspect they are heavily weighted to favor the three pointer and Melo never took more than 2.5 3s a game in Denver - his 3pt attempts more than doubled in NY under D'Antoni and Woodson, and coincidentally his win shares went up.)

And looking at their career regular season records, Melo and CP3 are actually quite close there, too.

First ten seasons in the league CP3's team: 474-330.

First ten seasons in the league Melo's team: 470-334.

And I find it hard to believe you wouldn't judge a player's playoffs career when assessing their career. CP3's playoffs career has been extremely disappointing. Especially since the Clippers have been favored to come out of the west by a lot of people for the past three seasons and haven't come close.

Are the win shares wrong or is the perception of Isiah and Kidd wrong? I suspect it's a bit of both.

Nobody really checked players on these stats like hitting your shots at a high rate. As long as you looked good and dribbled fast or took and hit some really inefficient shots, the eye test was happy.

How come players don't do this today (at least not the good ones)? Because its not acceptable and they need to be answered for.

Yeah I guess there wasn't really a distinction between chucker and awesome player back. It was just assumed if your PPG was high, you were great.

Also, maybe if you beat Magic Johnson or Lebron James in the Finals and won a championship or two, people thought you were great.

I think WS is weighted toward the way the game is played now, more emphasis on threes. Thomas never shot that many threes because he could beat anyone in the league off the dribble whenever he wanted to and Dumars was the shooter. Most people who saw him play say he redefined the point guard position. He was pretty good.

That Jason Kidd guy wasn't too shabby, either, leading a flawed Nets team to the Finals twice in a row and then winning a chip with Dirk and also leading Melo to one of his better seasons.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.

As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!

you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.

Would you keep passing to players if they kept missing just to say i'm a team player, would you do anything with anyone who's unreliable. The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's double, or if someone has a better shot. Too many times i see passes that never had a chance, it results in a T O, and the same peole who wanted him to pass, will say how could make that pass.

All i ever want from a player, is to play hard and smart, if you do that, every hitting else will work out

The entire gist of the OP's thread is that some kind of reborn magical Melo will emerge from some kind of age defying cocoon and put up numbers he's never put up before. 28/10 and 28/8/5 are suggested.

I'm talking about more of a mindset than anything else. "The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's doubled or if someone has a better shot" sounds to me that you really don't want to see the ball passed around much.

I actually had no issue with Anthony's Portland game performance because there was a scoring vacuum that called for the kind of game Anthony had, but if anyone thinks that game is some kind of blueprint for team success the rest of the season you're deceiving yourself.

People always claim how good those Denver teams were but I think its overstated due to the names and not how well those teams were built or complimented each other etc.. Camby, Kmart, Nene, Melo as the front court. Where does the spacing come from? How do they compliment each other when they are actually healthy? And they had Andre Miller who couldn't shoot either as there point at first when Melo was also a poor 3pt shooter. Then they traded for Iverson another slasher to go with a lane clogging front court. Jr Smith is viewed as another component to these great Denver teams .

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.

As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!

you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.

Would you keep passing to players if they kept missing just to say i'm a team player, would you do anything with anyone who's unreliable. The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's double, or if someone has a better shot. Too many times i see passes that never had a chance, it results in a T O, and the same peole who wanted him to pass, will say how could make that pass.

All i ever want from a player, is to play hard and smart, if you do that, every hitting else will work out

The entire gist of the OP's thread is that some kind of reborn magical Melo will emerge from some kind of age defying cocoon and put up numbers he's never put up before. 28/10 and 28/8/5 are suggested.

I'm talking about more of a mindset than anything else. "The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's doubled or if someone has a better shot" sounds to me that you really don't want to see the ball passed around much.

I actually had no issue with Anthony's Portland game performance because there was a scoring vacuum that called for the kind of game Anthony had, but if anyone thinks that game is some kind of blueprint for team success the rest of the season you're deceiving yourself.