GustavBahler wrote:Way too soon for McHale to be fired, not too soon to ask him to show Porzingis some moves. Unfortunately he hasnt seemed as interested in teaching post play as Hakeem, not that he does it for free.

Have not looked into it, but you wonder if Howard ever really talked to McHale about helping him with his game.

Howard seems content with being known as a guy of immense physical talent who, for one reason or another, never really worked to add to his game.

Wasted talent, IMO, despite the accolades he has received over the years.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

yea this... Im not a Melo lover either. Calling the stuff you mentioned above stupid (which it is) does not make anyone a die hard MElo fan, just sensible.

My comment wasnt weak at all. Analytics isnt the key to long term success, good team building and talent evaluation are. But I guess Im a die-hard Melo fan so what do I know? My god, talk about weak.

computers are stupid too. what happened to just doing everything like a man??

computers aren't people ... duh!

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

yea this... Im not a Melo lover either. Calling the stuff you mentioned above stupid (which it is) does not make anyone a die hard MElo fan, just sensible.

My comment wasnt weak at all. Analytics isnt the key to long term success, good team building and talent evaluation are. But I guess Im a die-hard Melo fan so what do I know? My god, talk about weak.

computers are stupid too. what happened to just doing everything like a man??

computers aren't people ... duh!

I like the analytic stuff. My point though is that there are a ton of variables that go into winning. So when Melo was blamed as THE reason why those Denver teams didn't go deep into the playoffs. And any other variables were brought up that may have contributed to the failure as much or more. None of them were acceptable other then one variable that was convenient to the agenda.

So now Melo is out of the picture. Rockets arguably have had more talent then those Denver teams and more flexibility as well. Karl was never fired under Melo, didn't hear about much team turmoil in the locker room in the Denver yrs either(Well nothing came out publicly anyway). Just didn't go far in the playoffs.

I'm not attacking you Mreinman as I like your posting. Kobe a guy you hate had terrible analytics in your eyes yet won championships with those Laker teams. Again this isn't to say that analytics are wrong. Just that there are many other variable that go into winning. All that finger pointing in the past was stupid. Now watch Harden become the scapegoat if they don't turn it all around.

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

yea this... Im not a Melo lover either. Calling the stuff you mentioned above stupid (which it is) does not make anyone a die hard MElo fan, just sensible.

My comment wasnt weak at all. Analytics isnt the key to long term success, good team building and talent evaluation are. But I guess Im a die-hard Melo fan so what do I know? My god, talk about weak.

computers are stupid too. what happened to just doing everything like a man??

computers aren't people ... duh!

I like the analytic stuff. My point though is that there are a ton of variables that go into winning. So when Melo was blamed as THE reason why those Denver teams didn't go deep into the playoffs. And any other variables were brought up that may have contributed to the failure as much or more. None of them were acceptable other then one variable that was convenient to the agenda.

So now Melo is out of the picture. Rockets arguably have had more talent then those Denver teams and more flexibility as well. Karl was never fired under Melo, didn't hear about much team turmoil in the locker room in the Denver yrs either(Well nothing came out publicly anyway). Just didn't go far in the playoffs.

I'm not attacking you Mreinman as I like your posting. Kobe a guy you hate had terrible analytics in your eyes yet won championships with those Laker teams. Again this isn't to say that analytics are wrong. Just that there are many other variable that go into winning. All that finger pointing in the past was stupid. Now watch Harden become the scapegoat if they don't turn it all around.

Couple of things:

1. Nobody should rely solely on analytics for anything. Its a tool that can assist where the outcome is not obvious to the eyes.
2. Houston's team does not come close to those Denvers teams
3. Harden was/is always super efficient regardless of the system that he is in. Melo was not. When he stops playing efficiently, he should take the same pounding.
4. Kobe was an inefficient chucker that had great supporting casts. He was also a fierce defender which helped/hid his disgusting chucks

For me, winning is about many variables but playing smart or stupid / selfish basketball should never have excuses. Many players played smart unselfish basketball on bad teams.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

yea this... Im not a Melo lover either. Calling the stuff you mentioned above stupid (which it is) does not make anyone a die hard MElo fan, just sensible.

My comment wasnt weak at all. Analytics isnt the key to long term success, good team building and talent evaluation are. But I guess Im a die-hard Melo fan so what do I know? My god, talk about weak.

computers are stupid too. what happened to just doing everything like a man??

computers aren't people ... duh!

I like the analytic stuff. My point though is that there are a ton of variables that go into winning. So when Melo was blamed as THE reason why those Denver teams didn't go deep into the playoffs. And any other variables were brought up that may have contributed to the failure as much or more. None of them were acceptable other then one variable that was convenient to the agenda.

So now Melo is out of the picture. Rockets arguably have had more talent then those Denver teams and more flexibility as well. Karl was never fired under Melo, didn't hear about much team turmoil in the locker room in the Denver yrs either(Well nothing came out publicly anyway). Just didn't go far in the playoffs.

I'm not attacking you Mreinman as I like your posting. Kobe a guy you hate had terrible analytics in your eyes yet won championships with those Laker teams. Again this isn't to say that analytics are wrong. Just that there are many other variable that go into winning. All that finger pointing in the past was stupid. Now watch Harden become the scapegoat if they don't turn it all around.

Couple of things:

1. Nobody should rely solely on analytics for anything. Its a tool that can assist where the outcome is not obvious to the eyes.
2. Houston's team does not come close to those Denvers teams
3. Harden was/is always super efficient regardless of the system that he is in. Melo was not. When he stops playing efficiently, he should take the same pounding.
4. Kobe was an inefficient chucker that had great supporting casts. He was also a fierce defender which helped/hid his disgusting chucks

For me, winning is about many variables but playing smart or stupid / selfish basketball should never have excuses. Many players played smart unselfish basketball on bad teams.

statements like the bold really take away from anything else you have to say. Yea... Kobe, that guy really sucked. Amazing.

stop being so black and white ... geeeeeez. Your melo defense and overall anger today is at its peak.

We all know what Kobe was and even though he was great, his chucking was disgusting. Disgusting enough that Phil tried desperately go get rid of him.

TEAM BALL!

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:but Houston is #1 in analytics.. so long as they arent taking any long 2's they should be fine... Oh wait, the games are played by humans? Well THATS just stupid

fishmike ... this is really weak.

what does this have to do with analytics?? Nothing. Remember that they went ot the WCF and took GS to 6?

C'mon man. This is a situation where the GM and the coach did not get along and perhaps Harden is NBA's new primadona.

ClutchFans has a thread started by an 'insider' saying Morey is on the hot seat. Also, Ainge has offered McHale a job if he wants it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2015/11/danny_ainge_to_kevin_mchale_we_have_a_spot_for_you

I have not seen any die hard melo fans that does not love dissing anyone associated with advance analytics. Just saying.

Morey has had a very good run in Houston. No GM's last forever unless you win a chip.

The rockets were huge over achievers last year. Is Morey doing the best job with Personnel? I don't think so.

I am not a diehard Melo fan. I hated the trade at the time. However, he has earned my respect and the constant bashing of him is ridiculous in my opinion. The summer of bashing based on assumptions and speculations this year was ridiculous in my opinion.
In regards to Morey I don't care for him but not because of analytics. He is the only gm to use the poison pill since the new cba was put in place. His calling Cuban after the Howard signing. Reports that he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and has to win every trade by a large margin etc. Lots of reasons not to like the guy.
In regards to your analytics/ Melo comment not sure where to go with that but I will say that many of the posters that are highly critical of players based on media speculation and assumptions need to be a bit more savy about the media and ny teams/players.

You mean like how Melo not showing up to Summer league was a sign that he hates young players and only wanted vets that can help him win right now. That he was attempting to hold the team hostage forcing them to make win now moves until he eventually demanded a trade.

Or how his 124mil contract was going to stop the Knicks from getting any type of blue chip level talent and keep the Knicks in mediocrity over the next 5yrs.

Or how no young players are ever able to develop next to him because his presences stunts there growth.

Yet if you don't accept these undeniable logical conclusions that are guaranteed to happen your a Melo lover. And if these made up narratives don't come to pass then its not because they were formed by illogical biased hate. It will be due to some other made up narrative that becomes convenient.

Still waiting on the direct evidence of Summer league appearances translating into regular season and playoff wins. Maybe if Melo showed up at Summer league we would be 11-1 right now and would have finished strong all those 4th quarters.

yea this... Im not a Melo lover either. Calling the stuff you mentioned above stupid (which it is) does not make anyone a die hard MElo fan, just sensible.

My comment wasnt weak at all. Analytics isnt the key to long term success, good team building and talent evaluation are. But I guess Im a die-hard Melo fan so what do I know? My god, talk about weak.

computers are stupid too. what happened to just doing everything like a man??

computers aren't people ... duh!

I like the analytic stuff. My point though is that there are a ton of variables that go into winning. So when Melo was blamed as THE reason why those Denver teams didn't go deep into the playoffs. And any other variables were brought up that may have contributed to the failure as much or more. None of them were acceptable other then one variable that was convenient to the agenda.

So now Melo is out of the picture. Rockets arguably have had more talent then those Denver teams and more flexibility as well. Karl was never fired under Melo, didn't hear about much team turmoil in the locker room in the Denver yrs either(Well nothing came out publicly anyway). Just didn't go far in the playoffs.

I'm not attacking you Mreinman as I like your posting. Kobe a guy you hate had terrible analytics in your eyes yet won championships with those Laker teams. Again this isn't to say that analytics are wrong. Just that there are many other variable that go into winning. All that finger pointing in the past was stupid. Now watch Harden become the scapegoat if they don't turn it all around.

Couple of things:

1. Nobody should rely solely on analytics for anything. Its a tool that can assist where the outcome is not obvious to the eyes.
2. Houston's team does not come close to those Denvers teams
3. Harden was/is always super efficient regardless of the system that he is in. Melo was not. When he stops playing efficiently, he should take the same pounding.
4. Kobe was an inefficient chucker that had great supporting casts. He was also a fierce defender which helped/hid his disgusting chucks

For me, winning is about many variables but playing smart or stupid / selfish basketball should never have excuses. Many players played smart unselfish basketball on bad teams.

statements like the bold really take away from anything else you have to say. Yea... Kobe, that guy really sucked. Amazing.

stop being so black and white ... geeeeeez. Your melo defense and overall anger today is at its peak.

We all know what Kobe was and even though he was great, his chucking was disgusting. Disgusting enough that Phil tried desperately go get rid of him.

TEAM BALL!

Melo defense? Anger? I have no clue what your talking about. You seem to be tilting a bit.

Dont remember any reports of Phil desperately trying to get rid of him. So was Kobe "great" or was he "disgusting?" Maybe Im just struggling with your writing style. For example if I asked you about your new girlfriend and you said "she's great" but also called her a whore in the same sentance I would have no clue what to say or what you think.

Seems Kobe isnt *your* flavor of player and thats fine. Calling a legend and HOF player who has achieved every individual and TEAM accomplishment pretty much possible "disgusting" tells me you have an agenda. Its one thing to promote a style you like. I get it. Its another thing to call a style you dont like disgusting. Go watch Denver and enjoy. I will sign up for a decade of Kobe's disgusting play morning noon and night. Winning titles is fun.

Great and disgusting seem like black and white terms... geeze indeed

watch denver? what? Is that like a dig from 2012 .... SMH

Kobe was a great disgusting player. Talented as anyone, selfish as anyone. You never heard that Phil tried to get rid of him? I read it in one of his books a few years ago. I think that he wrote that he went into kupchecks office a few times and said its me or him.

Yes. I hate kobe as a player and yes, I really really really hate selfish. Lakers fans must be thrilled with him now too holding the franchise hostage.

Anyone who mentions Kobe and MJ in the same breath should be stoned to death.