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Lopez is a dissapointment so far
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Knicks1969
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11/18/2015  11:50 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We mightve caught him on the beginning of the downside of his career. We paid 14mm for what? Hes got to step up and be more consistent and give more to the team. This team is winning with defense and some smoke and mirrors on offense.

Briggs strikes again. Excellent thread topic. You are great at starting a discussion.......Unfortunately I respecfully disagree.

Lopez is one of the few bigs willing to sacrifice his scoring and usage, to be the teams glue guy. We had to over pay him because, there were no other options, and he was willing to sacrifice his glory for others, by doing the dirty work. Lopez is similar to a high paying offensive linemen.....You never give those guys credit when the RB's goes off for 200 plus yards. Lopez is in the trenches, taking and giving elbows all game. It's not pretty, but it's affective.

He box out, someone else gets the rebound.
He sets a pick, someone else scores the bucket.

He's the ultimate teammate to have. Never complains about minutes or points. Just clocks in and clocks out. Leadership at it's best, without being a locker room cancer. You rarely find that these days.

He's also a mentor for KP and the other bigs. He's commited to NYC and loyal to his teammates.

Everybody doesn't have to score, to win games. Lopez provides that balance in an era where buckets is how you get the big contract. Phil was smart to pay for a role player at the most critical position on the court.

Jose is also providing value....He's the same way. You can pull these guys in and out of the lineup like a yo yo....and guess what....They will never be a locker room cancer.....And will always be ready when their number is called.

Phill is smarter than I thought. Thats called old school strategies of building a team. You need these guys around chuckers like Melo. Otherwise, you will have locker room cancers like Amari, hitting fire extinguishers.

are you watching the games? Melo is leading the team in assists, other guys are getting shots before he looks for his, they are featuring other guys early in the game before Melo... seems some folks really struggle with simply acknowledging Melo is a very good basketball player.

Call it hero ball, chucking, whatever... but yes, Melo plays very poorly on bad team. He also plays great with better teammates as demonstrated in the olympics, all star games and season's where his team has been very good. They werent winning in spite of him.

They're winning games when he isn't the central focal point. When he's the "Robin" and deferring and doing the other things like diving on the floor and battling for rebounds and dishing is the version of Melo we've all been waiting for.

KP is helping Melo transition into the proper "sidekick" role, gracefully.

Oh my! The kid is not yet ready for that role. Don't be so quick to throw away Carmelo like that. If it weren't for Carmelo, KP WOULD not have had the success he has had thus far.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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11/18/2015  11:51 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We mightve caught him on the beginning of the downside of his career. We paid 14mm for what? Hes got to step up and be more consistent and give more to the team. This team is winning with defense and some smoke and mirrors on offense.

Briggs strikes again. Excellent thread topic. You are great at starting a discussion.......Unfortunately I respecfully disagree.

Lopez is one of the few bigs willing to sacrifice his scoring and usage, to be the teams glue guy. We had to over pay him because, there were no other options, and he was willing to sacrifice his glory for others, by doing the dirty work. Lopez is similar to a high paying offensive linemen.....You never give those guys credit when the RB's goes off for 200 plus yards. Lopez is in the trenches, taking and giving elbows all game. It's not pretty, but it's affective.

He box out, someone else gets the rebound.
He sets a pick, someone else scores the bucket.

He's the ultimate teammate to have. Never complains about minutes or points. Just clocks in and clocks out. Leadership at it's best, without being a locker room cancer. You rarely find that these days.

He's also a mentor for KP and the other bigs. He's commited to NYC and loyal to his teammates.

Everybody doesn't have to score, to win games. Lopez provides that balance in an era where buckets is how you get the big contract. Phil was smart to pay for a role player at the most critical position on the court.

Jose is also providing value....He's the same way. You can pull these guys in and out of the lineup like a yo yo....and guess what....They will never be a locker room cancer.....And will always be ready when their number is called.

Phill is smarter than I thought. Thats called old school strategies of building a team. You need these guys around chuckers like Melo. Otherwise, you will have locker room cancers like Amari, hitting fire extinguishers.

are you watching the games? Melo is leading the team in assists, other guys are getting shots before he looks for his, they are featuring other guys early in the game before Melo... seems some folks really struggle with simply acknowledging Melo is a very good basketball player.

Call it hero ball, chucking, whatever... but yes, Melo plays very poorly on bad team. He also plays great with better teammates as demonstrated in the olympics, all star games and season's where his team has been very good. They werent winning in spite of him.

They're winning games when he isn't the central focal point. When he's the "Robin" and deferring and doing the other things like diving on the floor and battling for rebounds and dishing is the version of Melo we've all been waiting for.

KP is helping Melo transition into the proper "sidekick" role, gracefully.

keep telling yourself that... if thats what keeps your warm and fuzzy great. Bull**** but Im happy for you.

I guess when KP spoke to reporters last night and talked candidly about how much easier Melo makes it I guess that was just lip service. Funny post.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knixkik
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11/18/2015  11:53 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We mightve caught him on the beginning of the downside of his career. We paid 14mm for what? Hes got to step up and be more consistent and give more to the team. This team is winning with defense and some smoke and mirrors on offense.

Briggs strikes again. Excellent thread topic. You are great at starting a discussion.......Unfortunately I respecfully disagree.

Lopez is one of the few bigs willing to sacrifice his scoring and usage, to be the teams glue guy. We had to over pay him because, there were no other options, and he was willing to sacrifice his glory for others, by doing the dirty work. Lopez is similar to a high paying offensive linemen.....You never give those guys credit when the RB's goes off for 200 plus yards. Lopez is in the trenches, taking and giving elbows all game. It's not pretty, but it's affective.

He box out, someone else gets the rebound.
He sets a pick, someone else scores the bucket.

He's the ultimate teammate to have. Never complains about minutes or points. Just clocks in and clocks out. Leadership at it's best, without being a locker room cancer. You rarely find that these days.

He's also a mentor for KP and the other bigs. He's commited to NYC and loyal to his teammates.

Everybody doesn't have to score, to win games. Lopez provides that balance in an era where buckets is how you get the big contract. Phil was smart to pay for a role player at the most critical position on the court.

Jose is also providing value....He's the same way. You can pull these guys in and out of the lineup like a yo yo....and guess what....They will never be a locker room cancer.....And will always be ready when their number is called.

Phill is smarter than I thought. Thats called old school strategies of building a team. You need these guys around chuckers like Melo. Otherwise, you will have locker room cancers like Amari, hitting fire extinguishers.

are you watching the games? Melo is leading the team in assists, other guys are getting shots before he looks for his, they are featuring other guys early in the game before Melo... seems some folks really struggle with simply acknowledging Melo is a very good basketball player.

Call it hero ball, chucking, whatever... but yes, Melo plays very poorly on bad team. He also plays great with better teammates as demonstrated in the olympics, all star games and season's where his team has been very good. They werent winning in spite of him.

They're winning games when he isn't the central focal point. When he's the "Robin" and deferring and doing the other things like diving on the floor and battling for rebounds and dishing is the version of Melo we've all been waiting for.

KP is helping Melo transition into the proper "sidekick" role, gracefully.

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Melo is 31 and KP is 20. By next season, KP will hopefully move closer into a 1B to Melo's 1A and by year 3, when Melo is 33 and KP is 22, it should be time to see KP as a true #1 option and Melo properly at #2. The key is not to do it too soon and let it happen without forcing it. Let KP have some good games, but don't come to expect it just yet.
Knixkik
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11/18/2015  11:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2015  11:56 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We mightve caught him on the beginning of the downside of his career. We paid 14mm for what? Hes got to step up and be more consistent and give more to the team. This team is winning with defense and some smoke and mirrors on offense.

Briggs strikes again. Excellent thread topic. You are great at starting a discussion.......Unfortunately I respecfully disagree.

Lopez is one of the few bigs willing to sacrifice his scoring and usage, to be the teams glue guy. We had to over pay him because, there were no other options, and he was willing to sacrifice his glory for others, by doing the dirty work. Lopez is similar to a high paying offensive linemen.....You never give those guys credit when the RB's goes off for 200 plus yards. Lopez is in the trenches, taking and giving elbows all game. It's not pretty, but it's affective.

He box out, someone else gets the rebound.
He sets a pick, someone else scores the bucket.

He's the ultimate teammate to have. Never complains about minutes or points. Just clocks in and clocks out. Leadership at it's best, without being a locker room cancer. You rarely find that these days.

He's also a mentor for KP and the other bigs. He's commited to NYC and loyal to his teammates.

Everybody doesn't have to score, to win games. Lopez provides that balance in an era where buckets is how you get the big contract. Phil was smart to pay for a role player at the most critical position on the court.

Jose is also providing value....He's the same way. You can pull these guys in and out of the lineup like a yo yo....and guess what....They will never be a locker room cancer.....And will always be ready when their number is called.

Phill is smarter than I thought. Thats called old school strategies of building a team. You need these guys around chuckers like Melo. Otherwise, you will have locker room cancers like Amari, hitting fire extinguishers.

are you watching the games? Melo is leading the team in assists, other guys are getting shots before he looks for his, they are featuring other guys early in the game before Melo... seems some folks really struggle with simply acknowledging Melo is a very good basketball player.

Call it hero ball, chucking, whatever... but yes, Melo plays very poorly on bad team. He also plays great with better teammates as demonstrated in the olympics, all star games and season's where his team has been very good. They werent winning in spite of him.

They're winning games when he isn't the central focal point. When he's the "Robin" and deferring and doing the other things like diving on the floor and battling for rebounds and dishing is the version of Melo we've all been waiting for.

KP is helping Melo transition into the proper "sidekick" role, gracefully.

Oh my! The kid is not yet ready for that role. Don't be so quick to throw away Carmelo like that. If it weren't for Carmelo, KP WOULD not have had the success he has had thus far.


Yup that is most definitely the truth. Melo is the biggest reason for all of this, along with KP's mental toughness and talent of course.
ChuckBuck
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11/18/2015  12:19 PM
fishmike wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We mightve caught him on the beginning of the downside of his career. We paid 14mm for what? Hes got to step up and be more consistent and give more to the team. This team is winning with defense and some smoke and mirrors on offense.

Briggs strikes again. Excellent thread topic. You are great at starting a discussion.......Unfortunately I respecfully disagree.

Lopez is one of the few bigs willing to sacrifice his scoring and usage, to be the teams glue guy. We had to over pay him because, there were no other options, and he was willing to sacrifice his glory for others, by doing the dirty work. Lopez is similar to a high paying offensive linemen.....You never give those guys credit when the RB's goes off for 200 plus yards. Lopez is in the trenches, taking and giving elbows all game. It's not pretty, but it's affective.

He box out, someone else gets the rebound.
He sets a pick, someone else scores the bucket.

He's the ultimate teammate to have. Never complains about minutes or points. Just clocks in and clocks out. Leadership at it's best, without being a locker room cancer. You rarely find that these days.

He's also a mentor for KP and the other bigs. He's commited to NYC and loyal to his teammates.

Everybody doesn't have to score, to win games. Lopez provides that balance in an era where buckets is how you get the big contract. Phil was smart to pay for a role player at the most critical position on the court.

Jose is also providing value....He's the same way. You can pull these guys in and out of the lineup like a yo yo....and guess what....They will never be a locker room cancer.....And will always be ready when their number is called.

Phill is smarter than I thought. Thats called old school strategies of building a team. You need these guys around chuckers like Melo. Otherwise, you will have locker room cancers like Amari, hitting fire extinguishers.

are you watching the games? Melo is leading the team in assists, other guys are getting shots before he looks for his, they are featuring other guys early in the game before Melo... seems some folks really struggle with simply acknowledging Melo is a very good basketball player.

Call it hero ball, chucking, whatever... but yes, Melo plays very poorly on bad team. He also plays great with better teammates as demonstrated in the olympics, all star games and season's where his team has been very good. They werent winning in spite of him.

They're winning games when he isn't the central focal point. When he's the "Robin" and deferring and doing the other things like diving on the floor and battling for rebounds and dishing is the version of Melo we've all been waiting for.

KP is helping Melo transition into the proper "sidekick" role, gracefully.

keep telling yourself that... if thats what keeps your warm and fuzzy great. Bull**** but Im happy for you.

I guess when KP spoke to reporters last night and talked candidly about how much easier Melo makes it I guess that was just lip service. Funny post.

That's all fine and good. Melo can be the primary "decoy", if it benefits the rest of the team.

Why is it so hard for alot of fans to envision Melo as the "Beta" instead of the "Alpha"? It's not a negative. You need your Pippen's, your Bosh's, your McHale's, your Worthy's...

Winning is the bottomline, last night was the formula laid out for you short-sighted homers.
herkyJerky
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11/18/2015  12:35 PM
Personally I don't care who's Alpha, who's Beta, who's Batman, who's Robin, who's Hekyll, who's Jekyll. As long as these two stay healthy, along with the other key players, and they stay mentally tough and play hard and avoid the 'let's try and pit Melo vs. KP' drama we will soon be experiencing from the media. That's all I care about.
If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
crzymdups
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11/18/2015  12:44 PM
Melo is the focal point of any defense right now. As defenses start to game plan more for KP, it'll open things up more for Melo and Afflalo.

Melo is getting double and triple teamed some nights. It makes things easier on KP and others.

Kudos to Melo for recognizing and responding to this. He leads the team in assists. I could see him averaging a career high this year - he's currently tied for his career high in assists at 3.8 per game.

¿ △ ?
herkyJerky
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11/18/2015  12:58 PM
holfresh wrote:
herkyJerky wrote:
holfresh wrote:Lopez and Calderon are dead money..Lopez doesn't play in the 4th or crunch time..A complete waste of 20 mil per..Every point that Calderon scores he gives up two on the other end..

We're not even 1/5 of the way through the first season, and already it's a complete waste?

Yes, a complete waste...Both are a complete waste of money...

Okay. Just wanted to be clear on that. Just wanted to make sure you didn't think, for whatever reason, that maybe you weren't jumping the gun a bit prematurely.

If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
Nalod
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11/18/2015  2:19 PM
Brook and Robins parents are like: "My twins make 35million a year!!"

Damn.
crzymdups
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11/21/2015  8:08 AM
¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
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11/21/2015  8:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/21/2015  8:44 AM
crzymdups wrote:

Wow, that's incredible. Where is this stat available? It would be good to track it as the sample size increases. Lopez might be why Melo's rebounding is up from last year too.
CrushAlot
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11/21/2015  9:08 AM
crzymdups wrote:
It makes sense.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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11/21/2015  9:17 AM
I wish 82games.com would show this year's plus/minus stats. They seem to be slacking at that website.
BRIGGS
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11/21/2015  9:25 AM
I picked the Knicks to win last night on gp. Lopez played a good intangibles game. He was all around better
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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11/21/2015  9:36 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:

Wow, that's incredible. Where is this stat available? It would be good to track it as the sample size increases. Lopez might be why Melo's rebounding is up from last year too.

I think he has access to the extensive reporter/pro only stats area of nba.com. I don't think it's available to civilians.

But basketball reference has pretty extensive stats:

5 man lineups stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/lineups/#lineups-5-man::none

Plus/minus stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/on-off/#on-off::none

¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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11/21/2015  9:38 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:

Wow, that's incredible. Where is this stat available? It would be good to track it as the sample size increases. Lopez might be why Melo's rebounding is up from last year too.

I think he has access to the extensive reporter/pro only stats area of nba.com. I don't think it's available to civilians.

But basketball reference has pretty extensive stats:

5 man lineups stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/lineups/#lineups-5-man::none

Plus/minus stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/on-off/#on-off::none

One thing to look at is that the actual starting lineup of Calderon/Afflalo/Melo/KP/Rolo is pluses across the board, except FT attempts and steals.

¿ △ ?
CrushAlot
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11/21/2015  9:43 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:

Wow, that's incredible. Where is this stat available? It would be good to track it as the sample size increases. Lopez might be why Melo's rebounding is up from last year too.

I think he has access to the extensive reporter/pro only stats area of nba.com. I don't think it's available to civilians.

But basketball reference has pretty extensive stats:

5 man lineups stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/lineups/#lineups-5-man::none

Plus/minus stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016/on-off/#on-off::none

He posts amazing stats. Good guy to follow on twitter. Thanks for posting that.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TheGame
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11/21/2015  11:35 AM
Lopez has had good games and bad games. However, he has definitely improved our defensive intensity and effectiveness, which is one of the biggest weaknesses this team has had over the pay 6 or 7 years. He is bringing what we need, he just needs to cut down on the turnovers.
Trust the Process
nixluva
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11/21/2015  11:51 AM
TheGame wrote:Lopez has had good games and bad games. However, he has definitely improved our defensive intensity and effectiveness, which is one of the biggest weaknesses this team has had over the pay 6 or 7 years. He is bringing what we need, he just needs to cut down on the turnovers.

Yeah we didn't sign him for his offense. RoLo had a very positive defensive impact on the Blazers and he's doing the same here in NY! This is why Phil paid the man and got him to agree to wait as we looked at DeAndre. It was a smart move by Phil to lock in on RoLo like that. He isn't perfect but he has an impact.
mreinman
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11/21/2015  8:37 PM
crzymdups wrote:

wow!

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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