As for Phil, Rambis and Cleamons, I was talking about them last year too. This isn't some shift as you're trying to make it sound. Go back and look at what I wrote about them as coaches. See you want to drag out this old trope that i'm just changing as things develop when in fact i'm extremely consistent in the points I made.

As for this notion that Phil hasn't gotten talent for this team you make it sound like all these great players changed teams and we missed out. Most players stayed home. We got players that Phil targeted with the exception of DeAndre. He didn't really want Monroe after drafting KP and didn't want LMA either. The guys we got were the guys Phil wanted so you can shove that "Phil could NOT secure" talent crap. It's not just about collecting talent.

Good for you that you loved the draft. I read more negative things from you than positive so forgive me for assuming you had a negative view of most things Knicks did. Still a pretty negative take IMO. It's not just about having winners in the front office and on the bench. PAY SOME DAMN ATTENTION! This is different! When have we had this level of cohesion and direction from the top without interference from Dolan or different agendas between the GM and Coach?

We have the most capable and unified group from top to bottom in a very long time. This is something to be happy about rather than bytching about one Free Agent we didn't get. You can't win if you have different agendas and this franchise is finally in sync. This is what i've been trying to explain to you naysayers. You guys get distracted by the shinny objects and aren't paying F'n attention to what's really going on.

nixluva wrote:We really never got to see how Jose could play if healthy. It could've helped if Jose was healthy to start the season rather than starting with Larkin, but wouldn't have changed Melo's injury problems. In the end the struggles exposed the character of some of the guys and we traded them. Jose is still here and perhaps we'll get to see what he can do this time.

As for Phil, Rambis and Cleamons, I was talking about them last year too. This isn't some shift as you're trying to make it sound. Go back and look at what I wrote about them as coaches. See you want to drag out this old trope that i'm just changing as things develop when in fact i'm extremely consistent in the points I made.

As for this notion that Phil hasn't gotten talent for this team you make it sound like all these great players changed teams and we missed out. Most players stayed home. We got players that Phil targeted with the exception of DeAndre. He didn't really want Monroe after drafting KP and didn't want LMA either. The guys we got were the guys Phil wanted so you can shove that "Phil could NOT secure" talent crap. It's not just about collecting talent.

Good for you that you loved the draft. I read more negative things from you than positive so forgive me for assuming you had a negative view of most things Knicks did. Still a pretty negative take IMO. It's not just about having winners in the front office and on the bench. PAY SOME DAMN ATTENTION! This is different! When have we had this level of cohesion and direction from the top without interference from Dolan or different agendas between the GM and Coach?

We have the most capable and unified group from top to bottom in a very long time. This is something to be happy about rather than bytching about one Free Agent we didn't get. You can't win if you have different agendas and this franchise is finally in sync. This is what i've been trying to explain to you naysayers. You guys get distracted by the shinny objects and aren't paying F'n attention to what's really going on.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:We really never got to see how Jose could play if healthy. It could've helped if Jose was healthy to start the season rather than starting with Larkin, but wouldn't have changed Melo's injury problems. In the end the struggles exposed the character of some of the guys and we traded them. Jose is still here and perhaps we'll get to see what he can do this time.

As for Phil, Rambis and Cleamons, I was talking about them last year too. This isn't some shift as you're trying to make it sound. Go back and look at what I wrote about them as coaches. See you want to drag out this old trope that i'm just changing as things develop when in fact i'm extremely consistent in the points I made.

As for this notion that Phil hasn't gotten talent for this team you make it sound like all these great players changed teams and we missed out. Most players stayed home. We got players that Phil targeted with the exception of DeAndre. He didn't really want Monroe after drafting KP and didn't want LMA either. The guys we got were the guys Phil wanted so you can shove that "Phil could NOT secure" talent crap. It's not just about collecting talent.

Good for you that you loved the draft. I read more negative things from you than positive so forgive me for assuming you had a negative view of most things Knicks did. Still a pretty negative take IMO. It's not just about having winners in the front office and on the bench. PAY SOME DAMN ATTENTION! This is different! When have we had this level of cohesion and direction from the top without interference from Dolan or different agendas between the GM and Coach?

We have the most capable and unified group from top to bottom in a very long time. This is something to be happy about rather than bytching about one Free Agent we didn't get. You can't win if you have different agendas and this franchise is finally in sync. This is what i've been trying to explain to you naysayers. You guys get distracted by the shinny objects and aren't paying F'n attention to what's really going on.

you are gonna give yourself a heart attack nix

I'm just tired of the BS. This is NOT the same as all the other regimes. What is taking place now is much more focused and cohesive. The change is deeper and it's not the same old bad contracts and Big Name hunting at all costs. Giving away picks and bringing in old guys. We have an identity that is being formed. A system and style of play, which led to specific types of players being brought in to fit that scheme. Developing youth is a core part of the plan now. A culture of team play and adding team players for a change. Kills me that guys don't recognize this. So i'm gonna keep pounding this issue and presenting facts to make it clear to everyone just what is happening.

Throwing last season in our faces as proof that this is the "same old, same old" is totally missing the "forest for the trees". Fans have to look deeper than the W/L record in order to gauge what is being done. The losing last year served a purpose. Getting stuck on what Phil said about wanting the team to make the playoffs last year as if he was saying it was a lock and that he was 100% convinced that the players we had were the answer to the teams future is crazy. Teams always have a chance to make the playoffs. That's not really saying anything other than this is what they should be striving for in a league where half the teams make the playoffs and in the East it didn't even take .500 to get in. Not a stretch to expect that your team could do that.

So in the end I never get down about missing a season prediction. People can't hurt me with that stuff. That's a small part of what I contribute to this forum and i'm usually only a few games higher than most anyway. They can't even remember the times when I got it right so who cares! The important thing is that this regime at least is trying to do everything they can to lay a strong foundation to continue to build this team on. It's not just a superficial change. This is the deepest change we've seen in the last 15 years. Doesn't guarantee anything but it's better than the alternative that we've bee subjected to the last 15 years.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have the most capable and unified group from top to bottom in a very long time. This is something to be happy about rather than bytching about one Free Agent we didn't get. You can't win if you have different agendas and this franchise is finally in sync. This is what i've been trying to explain to you naysayers. You guys get distracted by the shinny objects and aren't paying F'n attention to what's really going on.

This has yet to be proven. Phil has won no titles as an executive, Fisher has won none as a coach. "Most capable" certainly hasnt been put to the test. if Phil actually was the coach, then yes this statement could be accurate, but he isnt. Your issue is you want an all around suck fest of praise. Sorry, but thats only done in orgies. Someone will be winning a title this year, and it wont be the New York Knicks. If that isnt the goal at some point, then there has been no culture change. if you want to praise guys who have won everywhere but here then expect them to do the same here. Every year the Knicks dont win under Phil should be a failure to you, because thats what you're basing you love for him on....his winning.

IMO and that of many analysts, who were surprised to admit it, is that Phil has done a very good job with the team this year. So what exactly can you point to in terms of Phil's moves this summer that would indicate that he isn't making smart moves as an exec? See you're mostly just pissing on him over last year which is really missing the point entirely. The W/L record last season isn't the most important factor but rather what Phil did with the team this summer, which is the foundation this team is being rebuilt on. So what in particular did Phil do this summer that hasn't given this team a chance for a better future?

NAME	                POS	AGE	HT	WT
Kristaps Porzingis	PF	20	7-1	220
Willy Hernangomez       C       21      6-10    243
Jerian Grant	        PG	22	6-5	205
Travis Trice            PG      22      6-0     177
Wesley Saunders	        SG	22	6-5	215
Thanasis Antetokounmpo	SF	23	6-7	215
Darion Atkins	        SF	23	6-8	241 
Langston Galloway	PG	23	6-2	200
Cleanthony Early	SF	24	6-8	220
Derrick Williams	PF	24	6-8	240
Kyle O'Quinn	        PF	25	6-10	250
Kevin Seraphin	        PF	25	6-10	278
Robin Lopez	        C	27	7-0	255
Lance Thomas	        SF	27	6-8	225
Arron Afflalo	        SG	29	6-5	215
Sasha Vujacic	        SG	31	6-7	193	 

knickscity wrote:Those same analysts have the team being in the lottery too.

This is true, but IMO a lot of that is due to a slight bias which is why it was so shocking that many of them were positive about the moves and they admitted that they were pleasantly surprised by what the Knicks did. It wasn't what some expected but Phil's approach makes sense.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25232108/in-their-misses-the-knicks-are-putting-together-a-proper-offseason

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/135376764/phil-jackson-knicks-free-agency-shrewd-moves

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/6/26/8850655/phil-jackson-new-york-knicks-draft-kristaps-porzingis