mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:My first reaction after seeing that video was similar to Briggs', and I started writing something, but my browser and OS on this computer are a bit flaky and I lost what I had written. I used Alcindor's name instead of Jabbar, and mentioned the sky hook, in particular. Also mentioned McHale.

You want KP to have a well rounded game, of course, and this video is, undoubtedly, only one part of a longer workout, but in general, Briggs is right about thinking you'd rather see him hitting hook shots than 3s. Why would you want a 7'3" kid waiting on the perimeter to get a pass so he can jack up a 3, because that is what he'll have to do to get that kind of shot-you don't want him going ISO and chucking up 3s, do you? Unless you are talking about last second plays set up for the 3, most come from guys hanging out on the perimeter. Yeah, you have exceptions, but the most efficient seem to be guys who are open and found by another player.

If anyone has stats on contested 3's or isolation jacks I would love to see them.

KP has the size, wingspan, athletic ability, and coordination to be extremely efficient in the post a few years down the line. He'll benefit from the rules protecting offensive players and if he gets good enough he'll open up the floor if he's doubled and contribute to other players shooting 3s. He's a better passer than we were led to believe before the draft, and a polished interior game and good decision making would allow you to run the offense through him at times.

A good interior game also means you get fouled more often, which helps in many ways.

As of now, you are more likely to see the pick and pop type stuff from him- doubt if he gets many chances from downtown, but ultimately, you want him moving closer to the basket, not further away.

Some of this will be predicated on him getting stronger, of course, but my hope is to see him playing center after the Lopez contract ends, or at least have him playing many more minutes there.

perhaps Durant and Klove should not shoot threes either?

You guys are way too old school with your thinking. KP should be taking any efficient shot on the floor. If the dude can hit threes at an efficient rate then of course he should shoot threes.

Also, he would be a nightmare to guard if he is knocking down threes.

Never said he should never shoot a 3, but a dominant interior scorer can create a lot of space for teammates, as well as opportunities for baskets and +1 threes.

If Mosgov had a great post game the finals might have been different. He's not terrible, but does not have a go to signature shot in the post, otherwise GS could not have gone small like they did.

Has nothing to do with "old school," young one, has to do with effectiveness. I saw Alcindor/KAJ as he developed. Not saying that KP can develop a shot with that consistency, but if he could I'd rather have him scoring and creating down low. He would open up plenty of opportunities for other 3 pt. shooters.

There are different ways to spread the floor.

And again...why would you want a 7'3" kid hanging out in the corner hoping for a pass, anyway? Moot point, though...we don't run that kind of offense at this point, anyway.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nixluva wrote:There's no mystery to what KP6 is gonna be asked to do in this offense. He's gonna do all the things that a PF is asked to do in this offense. There's nothing in it that would preclude him from using every single bit of his talent. Posting, Face up, Catch and Shoot, PnR/P, Cutting, Passing, etc. This isn't SSOL, so of course he's not going to be asked to just play on the perimeter. LITERALLY everything that Jason Smith and Bargs were doing in this system is what KP6 will do, but hopefully even more since he's more talented than a Jason Smith and more motivated than Bargs.

We've seen what a Bynum or Pau Gasol has done in this offense and eventually KP6 should be doing the same things. Now eventually I believe KP6 will be able to post up much more effectively as he matures, gains strength and also adds more post skills. IMO the last thing we need to worry about is Phil and Fish looking to expand KP6's game. When has Phil ever not wanted his players to use every bit of their skills? It's the very nature of the Triangle to use you passing, posting, shooting, cutting skills. It's called the TRIPLE POST OFFENSE for a reason.

I have no problem if KP shoots the open three. It can only help his face up game when opposing big are forced to guard him. We can't worry about the mismatches it forces opposing teams to make. All the memorable games I've seen are full of adjustments. It just means that Fish is going to have to be observant and counter those adjustments. If a team tries to go small with KPMG on the court, then it just means that the coach should try to find KPMG some easy points inside.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:My first reaction after seeing that video was similar to Briggs', and I started writing something, but my browser and OS on this computer are a bit flaky and I lost what I had written. I used Alcindor's name instead of Jabbar, and mentioned the sky hook, in particular. Also mentioned McHale.

You want KP to have a well rounded game, of course, and this video is, undoubtedly, only one part of a longer workout, but in general, Briggs is right about thinking you'd rather see him hitting hook shots than 3s. Why would you want a 7'3" kid waiting on the perimeter to get a pass so he can jack up a 3, because that is what he'll have to do to get that kind of shot-you don't want him going ISO and chucking up 3s, do you? Unless you are talking about last second plays set up for the 3, most come from guys hanging out on the perimeter. Yeah, you have exceptions, but the most efficient seem to be guys who are open and found by another player.

If anyone has stats on contested 3's or isolation jacks I would love to see them.

KP has the size, wingspan, athletic ability, and coordination to be extremely efficient in the post a few years down the line. He'll benefit from the rules protecting offensive players and if he gets good enough he'll open up the floor if he's doubled and contribute to other players shooting 3s. He's a better passer than we were led to believe before the draft, and a polished interior game and good decision making would allow you to run the offense through him at times.

A good interior game also means you get fouled more often, which helps in many ways.

As of now, you are more likely to see the pick and pop type stuff from him- doubt if he gets many chances from downtown, but ultimately, you want him moving closer to the basket, not further away.

Some of this will be predicated on him getting stronger, of course, but my hope is to see him playing center after the Lopez contract ends, or at least have him playing many more minutes there.

perhaps Durant and Klove should not shoot threes either?

You guys are way too old school with your thinking. KP should be taking any efficient shot on the floor. If the dude can hit threes at an efficient rate then of course he should shoot threes.

Also, he would be a nightmare to guard if he is knocking down threes.

So which of the guys mentioned by you...Love or Durant, is 7'3"...do tell.

Never said he should never shoot a 3, but a dominant interior scorer can create a lot of space for teammates, as well as opportunities for baskets and +1 threes.

If Mosgov had a great post game the finals might have been different. He's not terrible, but does not have a go to signature shot in the post, otherwise GS could not have gone small like they did.

Has nothing to do with "old school," young one, has to do with effectiveness. I saw Alcindor/KAJ as he developed. Not saying that KP can develop a shot with that consistency, but if he could I'd rather have him scoring and creating down low. He would open up plenty of opportunities for other 3 pt. shooters.

There are different ways to spread the floor.

And again...why would you want a 7'3" kid hanging out in the corner hoping for a pass, anyway? Moot point, though...we don't run that kind of offense at this point, anyway.

I don't want him hanging out in the corner. I want him to take what ever efficient offense is available to him based on matchups. I have no interest in making him less dynamic.

I wan't him to force switches and then abuse his defender.

Kevin Love is not 7 3 but he is one of the best rebounders in the game. So why is he camped out there behind the arc? Because he is an efficient 3 point shooter and it stretches the floor.

A guy who has a durant like stroke should be shooting from everywhere. He should not be stifled because of old school thinking.

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:yeah ... lets tell a freaky good shooter that he shouldn't shoot. That is the stupidist thing I've heard.

this is not 1960

No it's sound judgement. I have no problem with KP taking 1 good three wide open a game(for instance following a play) OR if somehow he gets hot--that's fine(1nce in awhile). But 85-90% of his game should be 12 feet and in. You talk about efficiency--whats more efficient a 7-3 guy taking a 4 footer or 30 footer. Do we want Myers Leonard here(who actually is more athletic than KP imho) or Bargnani or do we want Kevin Mchale Jabbar Pau? This is is developmental stage this is make or break how we develop him.

By the way it's funny when you call someone stupid and spell the word wrong. No mreinman we dont want our 7-3 guy taking 5 3's a game--we wasnt prescient development and efficient post play

who did I call stupid? Thats pretty stooopid in itself.

No briggs, its stupid to limit our player with these old school notions.

4 footer or 30 footer? huh? whats more efficient dunking from half court or shooting at the wrong basket??

Thats like telling Durant (who's also in the 7ft family) you should only shoot layups and hook shots....lol

Tell Larry Bird, whos also extremely tall he should've shot less 3's and more 2's.....It's a 3pt game fellas....times have changed. Now for those that hate the 3 point shot, well, Phil probably hates it even more.....Unfortunately, the 3pt line is here to stay and adds another weapon for bigs.

Especially for 7'3 bigs that needs to create paint space for Melo.....KP will score the ball from every single spot on the floor.....Thats his specialty. Thats why he's unique.....Thats why he was drafted 4th.

blkexec wrote:Why would anybody want a 7'3 guy in the paint, next to 7ft Rolo and don't forget the king of the paint Melo.....

Thats like telling Durant (who's also in the 7ft family) you should only shoot layups and hook shots....lol

Tell Larry Bird, whos also extremely tall he should've shot less 3's and more 2's.....It's a 3pt game fellas....times have changed. Now for those that hate the 3 point shot, well, Phil probably hates it even more.....Unfortunately, the 3pt line is here to stay and adds another weapon for bigs.

Especially for 7'3 bigs that needs to create paint space for Melo.....KP will score the ball from every single spot on the floor.....Thats his specialty. Thats why he's unique.....Thats why he was drafted 4th.

Lopez is a transitional center as KP fills his body. When his contract is up KP will be 24...by then you will know where his body has taken him, and you make your decisions based on whether you think he can be a full time center. Anthony will be gone the season KP starts at age 24.

Nobody is saying that KP is ready for center at this time. Nobody is saying that he cannot take a 3 point shot in a game.

I will also say again that for defensive reasons alone you will probably want him playing center down the road. You know the game- would you want D. Jordan out on the perimeter guarding a stretch 4. Same goes for a Ewing or a Jabbar.

If KP hits the 255LB mark or higher by his 24th birthday, there is a good chance you will see him as a center later in that year. If he is at 260-65, you can count on it.

Scouting reports say he has a frame to grow into and be strong.
Personally, if he has the mobility he gets harder to guard no matter where he plays.

Dude is lifting weights, getting used to the city, hanging with his teammates and shooting on video.
All we know is what is being fed us. I would think he is doing more than just youtube Melo stuff.

And If injuries is a concern....the last thing u want is a skinny kid backing down someone whos continuely putting elbows in his lower back....in the paint is where he will get injured as a rookie....so he has to pick his spots......back down smalls.....quickness against bigs.

Stupid Kraut! He would've had a Hall of Fame career! Oh wait....

KP6 himself said that he needs to work on his post game. He clearly needs to refine some go to moves. It would be awesome if he could come in with a clearer idea of how he wants to set his man up in the post. For now I think he may want to face up his man and use the threat of his jumper. Jab step fadeaway seems like a possibility with his size. Jump Hook is already looking pretty smooth. I feel pretty good about the kids potential since he already shows the agility and coordination to perform just about any move. Just needs reps and to get stronger.

This will determine where he eventually plays, IMO...

No...height alone does not make you a good player in the post- that's why you work on your interior game. We know he can hit a J. He's even talked a lot about having to work on his post-up game. Briggs, like me, does not want KP camped out on the perimeter- he's just a bit more fearful of it than I am.

I sometimes get the feeling that some of you are wetting your pants dreaming about him doing crossovers at mid-court and finishing with a contested 3. Am I right about this feeling?

Maybe the Knicks do some of the GS Curry/Green high screen type stuff, but that doesn't seem to be Phil's thing at this point. I've seen KP in that situation in some of his Spanish games, though, and he seems very comfortable out there. Despite his build, he readily sets picks, and I expect him to benefit from them, but I think most of his Js will be midrange.

I might have more confidence in his all around BB skills than some, and I see them working the offense through him at some point down the road, and though I might be "old school," and not know as much as some of you young whippersnappers- I do know that for the most part, you don't work your offense through a stretch 4 who is hanging around on the perimeter.

As good as Dirk is, the guy has averaged about 2.5 APG for his career. As big as he is, he's averaged less than 1BPG. I'm hoping that KP is at the 4/5 APG, 2.5 BPG levels.

I want KP to be better than Nowitski, especially his interior D and post up game. Expect to see some Dirk fallbacks, but would rather see KP with some more aggressive inside moves.

We will see.