CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

I think you are mistaken about Woodson in regards to Lin.

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8158354/new-york-knicks-absolutely-match-offer-jeremy-lin-mike-woodson-says
Also, loved Linsanity but to not recognize that it was the easiest part of the schedule for that year would be taking it out of context. The Knicks played one playoff team in that 7 game run. The Knicks minimally go 5-2 in that portion of their schedule without Lin. Also, the team finished 18-6 under Woodson to make the playoffs. Without that run they don't get in.

no.

without lin's heroics the season was lost, the franchise dead. moreover it proved that d'antoni ball works. the end-of-season run you allude to would have been meaningless without lin giving the franchise life in an otherwise lost campaign. in other words, no lin no 18-6.

your assumption about 5-2 is weak sauce, meant to undermine lin's superb play while trying to make a case.

question: why did d'antoni resign?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

I think you are mistaken about Woodson in regards to Lin.

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8158354/new-york-knicks-absolutely-match-offer-jeremy-lin-mike-woodson-says
Also, loved Linsanity but to not recognize that it was the easiest part of the schedule for that year would be taking it out of context. The Knicks played one playoff team in that 7 game run. The Knicks minimally go 5-2 in that portion of their schedule without Lin. Also, the team finished 18-6 under Woodson to make the playoffs. Without that run they don't get in.

no.

without lin's heroics the season was lost, the franchise dead. moreover it proved that d'antoni ball works. the end-of-season run you allude to would have been meaningless without lin giving the franchise life in an otherwise lost campaign. in other words, no lin no 18-6.

your assumption about 5-2 is weak sauce, meant to undermine lin's superb play while trying to make a case.

question: why did d'antoni resign?

Your brain only allow you to see what you want to see..Question, could the Knicks have gotten into the playoffs without the 18-6 run?..You won't answer that, I already know..

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

I think you are mistaken about Woodson in regards to Lin.

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8158354/new-york-knicks-absolutely-match-offer-jeremy-lin-mike-woodson-says
Also, loved Linsanity but to not recognize that it was the easiest part of the schedule for that year would be taking it out of context. The Knicks played one playoff team in that 7 game run. The Knicks minimally go 5-2 in that portion of their schedule without Lin. Also, the team finished 18-6 under Woodson to make the playoffs. Without that run they don't get in.

no.

without lin's heroics the season was lost, the franchise dead. moreover it proved that d'antoni ball works. the end-of-season run you allude to would have been meaningless without lin giving the franchise life in an otherwise lost campaign. in other words, no lin no 18-6.

your assumption about 5-2 is weak sauce, meant to undermine lin's superb play while trying to make a case.

question: why did d'antoni resign?

Your brain only allow you to see what you want to see..Question, could the Knicks have gotten into the playoffs without the 18-6 run?..You won't answer that, I already know..

answer my question first since i asked it first, otherwise you're clowning once again.

and bonus points for answering why did d'antoni resign?

Told you that you wouldn't answer, it's not in your character to man up...

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

I think you are mistaken about Woodson in regards to Lin.

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8158354/new-york-knicks-absolutely-match-offer-jeremy-lin-mike-woodson-says
Also, loved Linsanity but to not recognize that it was the easiest part of the schedule for that year would be taking it out of context. The Knicks played one playoff team in that 7 game run. The Knicks minimally go 5-2 in that portion of their schedule without Lin. Also, the team finished 18-6 under Woodson to make the playoffs. Without that run they don't get in.

no.

without lin's heroics the season was lost, the franchise dead. moreover it proved that d'antoni ball works. the end-of-season run you allude to would have been meaningless without lin giving the franchise life in an otherwise lost campaign. in other words, no lin no 18-6.

your assumption about 5-2 is weak sauce, meant to undermine lin's superb play while trying to make a case.

question: why did d'antoni resign?

Your brain only allow you to see what you want to see..Question, could the Knicks have gotten into the playoffs without the 18-6 run?..You won't answer that, I already know..

answer my question first since i asked it first, otherwise you're clowning once again.

and bonus points for answering why did d'antoni resign?

Told you that you wouldn't answer, it's not in your character to man up...

there would have been no 18-6 run without lin resuscitating the season and sacrificing his body in the process.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

What are you talking about??!!

You part of Anthony's "anticipatory" damage control team? Nothing Anthony does matters anymore?? No accountability for what he does on the court?

Talk about avoiding responsibility...

..If we don't win its on a 20 year old Latvian rookie?!

I assume that you are simply not expressing yourself properly, because the fate of this season is not on the shoulders of either of our rookies.

Seem to recall that everything is happy happy joy joy between Phil and Melo over, FA and the draft, anyway. Anthony has given his approval, even though we did not get one of the big FAs..No? Did I miss some criticisms that were not reported of what Phil did in the off season that only you are privy to?

Many players have to step up, but the guy getting the most money needs to show that he a pretty decent cast of players can take the step to another level. Anyone who does not believe this is searching for excuses to pull out on a rainy day.

You might be able to justify giving Anthony a pass for last year because he played injured, although he should have gotten the surgery immediately, put he is supposed to be healthy for the season, and its time for him to earn his money.

Revisit this 3/4 years down the road, and you can make a case for this having been the case, but for now, to even mention that the fate of the season is on on a draft pick seems a bit foolish.

Did you happen to miss that Phil didn't want to talk to Aldridge because he might cut into KP's playing time at PF??..Did you miss that???..That means he is building around KP...

Means that the draft is before FA, unfortunately, and as I said, Anthony is now on record as being happy with what we got in FA and who we drafted. Heck, for all you know they had info we were unaware of that he was not going to come here.

I like him as a player, and I think I said in another post that if we had gotten OK4, we would have had him in, but even then, he was not coming here. If he was 26, and Anthony was 28...maybe, but even then, SA is one year away from having won a title, and that is what he wants to get.

Pretty sure that Duncan and Manu had already agreed to take less to fit Aldridge in...it was a fate accompli that he was going to SA, which was also his home town.

You are using this as some kind of preparation in case things don't go great.

I think we brought in a good crew of FA's, and given the state of the team, Phil did a better job than I expected in FA.

Again...KP is a pick you look at in a couple of years. He might not even be a starter at first.

Not sure that any of the guys in the draft were ready to "compliment" Melo. OK4, who you liked, was gone, Winslow was unimpressive in the summer and seems to have some health issues, and Grant is more NBA ready in our offense than Mudiay, IMO.

Easy to use Aldridge as an excuse, but he is now in the situation he wanted to be in.

Please allow me to speak for myself..I would have picked Mudiay without question...Grant is not Mudiay, not even close..Aldridge said himself he was interested in coming here..All these other assumptions are pure speculation..We didn't try to get him...The free agent pick ups are garbage...They are second stringers at best on good teams...Clearly we aren't trying to win anything..I have my own reasons for thinking why Phil made these moves but it's speculation on my part...

I think it would have been better to bring up KP with Aldridge because we would have probably made the playoffs and meaningful playoffs are valuable to young players...But we are clearly going in a different direction...So it doesn't matter if Melo is here or not...We aren't competing..We are developing..We are developing coaches and young players..As much as I say I think Melo is a good player..I actually want to see the pieces around him to see him do what I think he can do...I actually wanted to see Phil bring in pieces that can compete..But this group isn't that...Melo got a pass...

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

I think you are mistaken about Woodson in regards to Lin.

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8158354/new-york-knicks-absolutely-match-offer-jeremy-lin-mike-woodson-says
Also, loved Linsanity but to not recognize that it was the easiest part of the schedule for that year would be taking it out of context. The Knicks played one playoff team in that 7 game run. The Knicks minimally go 5-2 in that portion of their schedule without Lin. Also, the team finished 18-6 under Woodson to make the playoffs. Without that run they don't get in.

no.

without lin's heroics the season was lost, the franchise dead. moreover it proved that d'antoni ball works. the end-of-season run you allude to would have been meaningless without lin giving the franchise life in an otherwise lost campaign. in other words, no lin no 18-6.

your assumption about 5-2 is weak sauce, meant to undermine lin's superb play while trying to make a case.

question: why did d'antoni resign?

Pure comedy!

Not unmitigated hate for any player either....just trying to figure out the logic and reasoning behind such a stupid comment.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

so you're telling me that, because jackson decided to draft a rookie and is being paid rookie money, that this particular rookie should be held accountable... compared with melo at 25 million a year who does not have to be held accountable or try and fit in with the team, defending and facilitating and whatnot?

further, that it will be okay for anthony to pull the marbury/ towel on head sulking and disgruntled act?

because that sounds exactly like what you are saying, holfresh.

this season is going to be a real test of character for melo, likely revealing and exposing him as never before, and for better... or worse.

No, what I'm telling you is Phil is now building around Porzingus...The fact that he didn't pursue Aldridge because he wants Porzingus to get playing time at the PF is telling you that..Aldridge would have made this a playoff team and possibly a foundation towards a contender..The Knicks as constructed isn't a playoff team...That was a conscious decision by Phil...It's not that deep..

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

so you're telling me that, because jackson decided to draft a rookie and is being paid rookie money, that this particular rookie should be held accountable... compared with melo at 25 million a year who does not have to be held accountable or try and fit in with the team, defending and facilitating and whatnot?

further, that it will be okay for anthony to pull the marbury/ towel on head sulking and disgruntled act?

because that sounds exactly like what you are saying, holfresh.

this season is going to be a real test of character for melo, likely revealing and exposing him as never before, and for better... or worse.

No, what I'm telling you is Phil is now building around Porzingus...The fact that he didn't pursue Aldridge because he wants Porzingus to get playing time at the PF is telling you that..Aldridge would have made this a playoff team and possibly a foundation towards a contender..The Knicks as constructed isn't a playoff team...That was a conscious decision by Phil...It's not that deep..

no.

i am taking you to task for absolving melo of any responsibility, which is patently ridiculous. melo is being paid to do a job, and that job is to fit in with the triangle and defend. are you saying he doesn't have to do these things?

Really, who cares what Melo does, it's about the direction of the Knicks...Melo will give you 25 and 7...So what?? We aren't a playoff team..It's about building towards a championship and clearly Melo is no longer in the picture...U can't be that dense not to see that...But you even said it yourself...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

so you're telling me that, because jackson decided to draft a rookie and is being paid rookie money, that this particular rookie should be held accountable... compared with melo at 25 million a year who does not have to be held accountable or try and fit in with the team, defending and facilitating and whatnot?

further, that it will be okay for anthony to pull the marbury/ towel on head sulking and disgruntled act?

because that sounds exactly like what you are saying, holfresh.

this season is going to be a real test of character for melo, likely revealing and exposing him as never before, and for better... or worse.

No, what I'm telling you is Phil is now building around Porzingus...The fact that he didn't pursue Aldridge because he wants Porzingus to get playing time at the PF is telling you that..Aldridge would have made this a playoff team and possibly a foundation towards a contender..The Knicks as constructed isn't a playoff team...That was a conscious decision by Phil...It's not that deep..

no.

i am taking you to task for absolving melo of any responsibility, which is patently ridiculous. melo is being paid to do a job, and that job is to fit in with the triangle and defend. are you saying he doesn't have to do these things?

Really, who cares what Melo does, it's about the direction of the Knicks...Melo will give you 25 and 7...So what?? We aren't a playoff team..It's about building towards a championship and clearly Melo is no longer in the picture...U can't be that dense not to see that...But you even said it yourself...

25 and 7? you mean 25 points on 17 well-chosen shots, right? not 22 shots to get those 25 points. otherwise he's just getting numbers outside the team concept once again. he doesn't have the talent or skill of a jordan or bryant to deserve taking more than 17 shots.

7 rebounds that are not the aldridge/lee bitch rebounds or the follow your own miss x-bo rebounds, but lopez-like hard-fought rebounds.

4 assists per game would also be nice, as would defending with eagerness and commitment. you left those out.

he does these things then guess what the knicks will make the playoffs. are you rooting for them to fail or hoping that they fail because it's not melo's team anymore? inquiring minds want to know.....

Yawn...