http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

I'm not sure Riicky Ledo was any answer even when we acquired. I have some trepidation myself about some areas and perhaps a rigid thought process. I've already used the example of Andersen schvyed and Powell over nothing grant and willy. I like grant but I'm not sure we got a superior player and Andersen really represented a switch to a player that plays basketball in style with how the nba is going. Powell to me was more valuable than willy as we needed a guard who can penetrtE and play physical defense over what now might be a guy considered our 4th center. You draft Andersen Powell and resign schveyd and were a different team(for the better)

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

I'm not sure Riicky Ledo was any answer even when we acquired. I have some trepidation myself about some areas and perhaps a rigid thought process. I've already used the example of Andersen schvyed and Powell over nothing grant and willy. I like grant but I'm not sure we got a superior player and Andersen really represented a switch to a player that plays basketball in style with how the nba is going. Powell to me was more valuable than willy as we needed a guard who can penetrtE and play physical defense over what now might be a guy considered our 4th center. You draft Andersen Powell and resign schveyd and were a different team(for the better)

Ricky Ledo, a talented young 6'7" guard with upside that actually possessed the combo guard skills we supposedly covet or Vujacic, a shooter not a combo, who was pretty bad his last couple of years in the NBA?? To me, if they want to pass on Shved, Elliot Williams, Ledo, a guy like Mike James, etc., have a plan ready to go to bring in something better. I don't know if a 32-year-old maybe washed up Sasha Vujacic qualifies as a better plan...It can't just be go out and target players that are comfortable in this system--there's gotta be more to the evaluation process than that imo.

The evaluation process was watching Ricky Ledo suck at basketball. Did you miss that part? The part where he was bad at basketball? And made terrible decisions?

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

I'm not sure Riicky Ledo was any answer even when we acquired. I have some trepidation myself about some areas and perhaps a rigid thought process. I've already used the example of Andersen schvyed and Powell over nothing grant and willy. I like grant but I'm not sure we got a superior player and Andersen really represented a switch to a player that plays basketball in style with how the nba is going. Powell to me was more valuable than willy as we needed a guard who can penetrtE and play physical defense over what now might be a guy considered our 4th center. You draft Andersen Powell and resign schveyd and were a different team(for the better)

Ricky Ledo, a talented young 6'7" guard with upside that actually possessed the combo guard skills we supposedly covet or Vujacic, a shooter not a combo, who was pretty bad his last couple of years in the NBA?? To me, if they want to pass on Shved, Elliot Williams, Ledo, a guy like Mike James, etc., have a plan ready to go to bring in something better. I don't know if a 32-year-old maybe washed up Sasha Vujacic qualifies as a better plan...It can't just be go out and target players that are comfortable in this system--there's gotta be more to the evaluation process than that imo.

The evaluation process was watching Ricky Ledo suck at basketball. Did you miss that part? The part where he was bad at basketball? And made terrible decisions?

I don't agree. He wasn't that bad. He had good moments this past year -- did you miss that part?? This guy was worth sticking with. I mean I don't get it. I'm at a loss--we went out and found 2 good combo guards, Shved and Ledo, that had good moments in this system, had the necessary skills to play in this system, and chose not to keep them around. Neither guy was expensive too--we had the money to keep both guys. Now that's fine, IF you wanna tell me we came up with better options because as far as I'm concerned, those were two pretty darn good ones, man, esp. Shved...Phil hasn't imo, simple as that. I like the Afflalo signing but to me, he effectively replaced guys like Shump, JR and Hardaway with AA--the starting/scoring off-guard. Affalo doesn't replace the big combo guards that had the court vision and facilitation skills a Shved and a Ledo had...I mean we HAD these guys here already AND they performed well--just had to commit a desire to move forward with them and Phil didn't...Mistake imo--all there is to it.

We've cut or not signed guys that I have regretted losing before - Lin, NDour, Matt Barnes, Shved

Ledo is not a regret for me. I think he's not a smart player. I'm not rooting against him, I hope he can figure it out, but I'm glad not to be tying up a roster spot waiting around for him.

Sasha is 6'7" and knows the system and can shoot and has excelled in NBA games, including playoffs. Ledo has none of that to offer and seemed utterly lost when I watched him play.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

I'm not sure Riicky Ledo was any answer even when we acquired. I have some trepidation myself about some areas and perhaps a rigid thought process. I've already used the example of Andersen schvyed and Powell over nothing grant and willy. I like grant but I'm not sure we got a superior player and Andersen really represented a switch to a player that plays basketball in style with how the nba is going. Powell to me was more valuable than willy as we needed a guard who can penetrtE and play physical defense over what now might be a guy considered our 4th center. You draft Andersen Powell and resign schveyd and were a different team(for the better)

Obviously KP was the big pick for us and Willy was rated higher than Powell as a prospect. I think they liked how Willy fit with KP which they saw 1st hand. IMO they didn't make a mistake in that regard. There are always more good guards than good bigs. It's not about where Willy would fit into the rotation right now but more about the future. I think they liked the chemistry and fit between KP and Willy.

The Knicks highly rated Jerian for how they want to play and he was a priority over a player like Anderson. It's very important that a guard have the needed skills and BB IQ in this system. It's a mistake to just put any guard in this system. It can be frustrating for guards who can't function in this kind of style of play where they have to make good decisions with and without the ball. You really want more Combo guards as opposed to a pure PG or Pure SG. Because every player that you can add who has Passing skills in addition to being able to shoot and drive will make the offense run better.

Why would Phil be concerned with the "style the NBA is going" when he doesn't really want to play that way? Even with the tweaks to the triangle they aren't looking to really stop playing Ball and Player Movement style basketball. They're just making improvements to the system they already run. They still need players who can play well in the Triangle and that means guards that are more Combo in nature and not ball dominant. Andersen and Powell might have been good options but not necessarily better options for how this team plays.

I pretty much agree that for the fit of this team (Triangle) we had a great draft. Outside of that French guy, I think we were good.
I think Willy is going to shock people next year overseas. He is our 1st round pick next year, literally. We are going to get to watch him and then he comes over (hopefully) the year after.
Grant is a very very high IQ player, fits us to a T. KP is the same as is Willy.

Ledo I liked, but he seemed often out of the flow. Talented guy, but I am not sure if he was ready for this offense. Maybe as a bench scorer but he would have hurt the flow.
Wouldn't be unhappy with him as I think he can be molded as he has an awful lot of talent. I just think the team felt like they had to babysit him on the court, so to speak.

blkexec wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

I'm not sure Riicky Ledo was any answer even when we acquired. I have some trepidation myself about some areas and perhaps a rigid thought process. I've already used the example of Andersen schvyed and Powell over nothing grant and willy. I like grant but I'm not sure we got a superior player and Andersen really represented a switch to a player that plays basketball in style with how the nba is going. Powell to me was more valuable than willy as we needed a guard who can penetrtE and play physical defense over what now might be a guy considered our 4th center. You draft Andersen Powell and resign schveyd and were a different team(for the better)

Obviously KP was the big pick for us and Willy was rated higher than Powell as a prospect. I think they liked how Willy fit with KP which they saw 1st hand. IMO they didn't make a mistake in that regard. There are always more good guards than good bigs. It's not about where Willy would fit into the rotation right now but more about the future. I think they liked the chemistry and fit between KP and Willy.

The Knicks highly rated Jerian for how they want to play and he was a priority over a player like Anderson. It's very important that a guard have the needed skills and BB IQ in this system. It's a mistake to just put any guard in this system. It can be frustrating for guards who can't function in this kind of style of play where they have to make good decisions with and without the ball. You really want more Combo guards as opposed to a pure PG or Pure SG. Because every player that you can add who has Passing skills in addition to being able to shoot and drive will make the offense run better.

Why would Phil be concerned with the "style the NBA is going" when he doesn't really want to play that way? Even with the tweaks to the triangle they aren't looking to really stop playing Ball and Player Movement style basketball. They're just making improvements to the system they already run. They still need players who can play well in the Triangle and that means guards that are more Combo in nature and not ball dominant. Andersen and Powell might have been good options but not necessarily better options for how this team plays.

I pretty much agree that for the fit of this team (Triangle) we had a great draft. Outside of that French guy, I think we were good.
I think Willy is going to shock people next year overseas. He is our 1st round pick next year, literally. We are going to get to watch him and then he comes over (hopefully) the year after.
Grant is a very very high IQ player, fits us to a T. KP is the same as is Willy.

Ledo I liked, but he seemed often out of the flow. Talented guy, but I am not sure if he was ready for this offense. Maybe as a bench scorer but he would have hurt the flow.
Wouldn't be unhappy with him as I think he can be molded as he has an awful lot of talent. I just think the team felt like they had to babysit him on the court, so to speak.

I think Ledo is too much like JR. If Ledo doesn't dominate the ball, he doesn't impact the game. And Phil is trying to get rid of those types of players, and bring in players that can impact the game without the ball. Especially when your star player (Melo or whoever) need the ball all the time on every posession. I know Ledo's type very well, because I used to be like that. It takes time to learn how to impact the game as a spot up shooter, defense and passing. Sasha doesn't need to dribble the ball 100x just to impact the game. And I'm not sure if Phil saw long term value in Ledo. It didn't seem like he change at all, since we first picked him up.

crzymdups wrote:I don't get what anyone saw in Ledo. I was never impressed. Not rooting against the kid, but I just couldn't see it. Hope he can get it together.

If you have any hint of ability to play wing in the modern NBA, someone somewhere will give you a look.

You can never have too many cornerbacks ( NFL)
You can never have too many starting pitcher ( MLB)
You can never have too many wing prospects ( NBA)

Ledo is sadly, likely a journeyman at this point. What he will be is likely all he has shown so far. Not saying he can't carve out a role in the NBA somewhere, but its doubtful he's going to really help the Knicks in their current state.

earthmansurfer wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

Nice article and I loved how it ended "We miss you already Shvedy." Yeah, as I and many have said, that move was a head scratcher...

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

Nice article and I loved how it ended "We miss you already Shvedy." Yeah, as I and many have said, that move was a head scratcher...

Berman on twitter said Shved would have taken 2.8 mil.

I'm glad the days where we just threw as much money as humanly possible at any target is over. Sending out a message that we won't overpay is going to mean losing out on some players, but in the long run it should benefit us, we needed to get more frugal.

Shved could play the point when Calderon gets injured again. 2.8 for a decent combo guard is not that much. You could argue that no other team offered him that, but it's not like any other team offered Vujacic anything at all.

Rookie wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Good article on our lack of depth in the backcourt:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/7/31/9078889/the-knicks-may-have-depth-issues-at-guard

It's alarming. Been saying this for weeks now. Feel the same way, even more so after waiving Ledo. What's the plan to improve this, Phil? I don't think he has one..

Nice article and I loved how it ended "We miss you already Shvedy." Yeah, as I and many have said, that move was a head scratcher...

Berman on twitter said Shved would have taken 2.8 mil.

I'm glad the days where we just threw as much money as humanly possible at any target is over. Sending out a message that we won't overpay is going to mean losing out on some players, but in the long run it should benefit us, we needed to get more frugal.

Shved could play the point when Calderon gets injured again. 2.8 for a decent combo guard is not that much. You could argue that no other team offered him that, but it's not like any other team offered Vujacic anything at all.

Exact-a-mundo!!! 2.8mm--MONEY WE HAD TO SPEND, STILL HAVE IN FACT, was a fair number for Shved--a young, big, skilled guard that EXCELLED in this system, a system that not everyone can handle supposedly. Well, this guy could!! Isn't that what we have supposedly been on the lookout for--players that can function/thrive in this system???? We had one right here with Alexey Shved!!! I couldn't care less that no one else offered Shved a contract--what the F does that have to do about anything--as if that somehow justifies the lack of judgment Phil showed here?? Who cares that no one else signed him?? Their loss.. WE KNOW HE WORKED HERE!! Deal with facts--look at the evidence...Proof was in the pudding my friends--we all saw it. I'm all for two sides to every story and all that but not in this situation.. Shved should still be a Knick. For some reason, the Phil loyalists or better yet mgmt. loyalists in general can't seem to admit that. To them, it's about finally being frugal (what?? At what cost? A good young inexpensive player that played well for us this past year??), it's about Phil's master plan and Shved not fitting in it (huh? Who have we added that effectively replaced Shved? Don't tell me Afflalo -- he replaces JR/Shump/Hardaway--the gunners, the scoring 2s...And don't tell me Wesley Saunders or Sasha Vujacic, ok guys. Come on, please). How 'bout we all get on the same page here and say Phil FUCKED THIS ONE UP! Period. And I got news for y'all--I bet anything it wouldn't have taken the full $2.8mm -- I bet we could've got this guy back for somewhere in the 2-2.5mm/yr range. That's if we keep him in the loop and actually communicated to the guy that we were serious about bringing him back -- continuing to lowball the guy with a take it or leave it vet minimum offer doesn't constitute a serious offer. Not in my book it doesn't, apparently not in Shved's either. It's sad...I mean how can anyone in their right mind feel good about our backcourt depth right now?!?