CrushAlot wrote:^^^^Boston is going to be an interesting team this year. A lot of high character guys that are talented and very likeable. Also, they have a ton of assets. Ainge kind of took a Hinkie approach to acquiring picks while keeping in mind that the goal is actually winning. Not sure if Melo would consider going there but I think they will be in the playoff picture.

Boston has had to take the route they have because no good free agent ever even considers signing with them. They basically have to draft a star or acquire enough assets to trade for one. Ainge has pretty much admitted as much and said he doesn't trust free agency.

I don't know if Melo would go to Boston.

I think his list would probably be the LA teams, Chicago, Dallas, Houston. Maybe you could talk him into Washington as a sort of home coming (to Baltimore area).

I don't think his list will be any longer than that.

I think Phil will basically use the first half of this season to evaluate - are we good enough to try to make the playoffs with Melo, ROLO, Afflalo, Calderon, DWill, KP, Grant, Galloway, KO'Q, etc. If the answer is yes, I think they will try to keep Melo.

If the answer is no at mid-season or they are 5-35 again and the answer is HELL NO, I think Melo and Knicks will agree to part ways, whether at the trade deadline or a trade next summer.

Bradley's stat line as a rookie (age 21):
10.3ppg, 3bpg, 2.0apg, 6.2rpg, FG .409 in 28.3mpg.

Best season (age 24):
13.2ppg, 3.4bpg (led NBA), .7apg, 8.4rpg, FG .449 in 31.3mpg.

Do we think KP is going to top either of those lines as a rookie? If KP's floor was similar to Bradley's best season, would he be a disappointment?

Rik Smits's stat line as a rookie (age 22):
11.7ppg, 1.8bpg, .9apg, 6.1rpg, FG .517 in 24.9mpg.

Best season (age 29):
18.5ppg, .7bpg, 1.7apg, 6.9rpg, FG .521 in 30.2mpg.

Again, if we look at the production here, would this be a disappointment?

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:He is more of a PF/C then a pure center. Hopefully is able to be spoken in the same sentence and grow in the mold of a KG, Dirk, Gasol, Davis.

If we played heavy heavy PNR his offensive game is tailor made for that with his mobility, length, stroke, ability to put the ball on the floor. He just wouldn't be strong enough yet to set hard picks to clear the guard.

I was watching his highlights last night from SL. Boy does he have a soft shot around the rim--gorgeous and to long to be altered. Kind of like Pau the 4-5 is kind of what he will be--not a true 5 or a true 4 but somewhere in between.

Which is the direction the NBA is moving (i.e., versatile, skilled bigs who can shoot - not pigeonholed into a slot).

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Trading Melo all comes down to if he actually has a desire to be traded first and foremost. If he is traded then signing him was still worth it since we were able to get something for him rather then lose him for nothing.

But regardless of that the Knicks have had some of the worst guard play in the NBA over the last 2 yrs. When our guard play is able to compete with other guards on a night to night basis we will win more games and there would be less responsibility on Carmelo to be someone he isn't. When we had strong guard play we won 54 games. Every team in the playoffs had strong guard play. We can kill Carmelo all day but we won't generate wins or improve until our guard play is at a comparable level as the rest of the NBA.

This is true! That's why Phil had to draft Jerian. He knew that we couldn't go into the future without a Guard who could really play. IMO Jerian is that guard we need. He can push the ball, score, penetrate and kick, run PnR as well.

And, um...DEFEND!

foosballnick wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:in the making. Will not happen for 2 years but he is the absolute superstar center here once his body and game fill and grow out. Thats why I kind of want Carmelo to be traded at maximum value anyway--because I dont believe we have a chance in hll to win with Cleveland in our conference. That would give Carmelo a chance with another team and we can continue to re-do the roster with hopes we can find a star guard to go along with Kristaps for the future. It will take 2-3 years for Clev to burn out so we have that time to build out for our run.

I like that the Knicks have tried to find some younger players to build with. We havent been very successful with mostly raw talent Layberdie Thansis Early Ledo etc.. but hopefully we can tweak our evaluation process a bit as well.

Oh my God! Can you all please lower the expectation already? This dude is a big, and it normally takes four full season for them to show a good grasp of the game. Fundamentally, we all can see that he has a good court awareness; but what you failed to realize is that this kid is only 200 lbs. if he adds more weight to his frame as he has been asked to do, it will slow him down and in turn will also slow his progress. Pau Gassol did not blossom until his fith year in the league, and so are many others.

Let the kid be. I am sick of reading people from the media and fans around here anointing this young kid as a superstar this early in his career. Please tell me what league he has dominated since he started playing?????

Magic dominated at all level
So did Lebron

Not sure what your point it aside from sweeping generalizations.

Magic and Lebron might have dominated at all levels - but MJ did not make the Varsity Team his sophmore year in HS. Different people develop differently.

Regarding Grasp of the Game - Porzingis has been playing professionally since he was 16 years old and regardless of his stats, he has been practicing and playing against grown men since that time.

Regarding weight gain & mobility - not sure what planet you are from, but here on earth a super skinny teenager who starts to fill into his frame with a workout regime aimed at speed and agility & building muscle - does not have his progress or speed slowed down. He is not being asked to sit at home on the couch and chug down twinkees.

What is wrong with having high expectations from a high pick?

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:^^^^Boston is going to be an interesting team this year. A lot of high character guys that are talented and very likeable. Also, they have a ton of assets. Ainge kind of took a Hinkie approach to acquiring picks while keeping in mind that the goal is actually winning. Not sure if Melo would consider going there but I think they will be in the playoff picture.

Boston has had to take the route they have because no good free agent ever even considers signing with them. They basically have to draft a star or acquire enough assets to trade for one. Ainge has pretty much admitted as much and said he doesn't trust free agency.

I don't know if Melo would go to Boston.

I think his list would probably be the LA teams, Chicago, Dallas, Houston. Maybe you could talk him into Washington as a sort of home coming (to Baltimore area).

I don't think his list will be any longer than that.

I think Phil will basically use the first half of this season to evaluate - are we good enough to try to make the playoffs with Melo, ROLO, Afflalo, Calderon, DWill, KP, Grant, Galloway, KO'Q, etc. If the answer is yes, I think they will try to keep Melo.

If the answer is no at mid-season or they are 5-35 again and the answer is HELL NO, I think Melo and Knicks will agree to part ways, whether at the trade deadline or a trade next summer.

I agree that Melo will waive his no trade to certain teams if the Knicks stink. I also think that Cleveland & Miami will be possibilities. Not sure about Miami's trade flexibility but Cleveland just got back over $13 mil in trade exceptions for trading Haywood and Miller. That could lead to some interesting possibilities for both teams. Mozgov, Thompson a 10.5 Mil trade exception and a future 1st round Pick for Melo comes extremely close to working financially - and would be a move that could put Cleveland over the top for the next several years while giving the Knicks some players a pick and more cap flexibility.

some more film of Bradley. check the way Bradley sets the pick and then pops from the top of the key and how he stays on his feet and uses his length to defend and block shots

Rookie wrote:I don't get the comparisons to Dirk and Bargs other then they are all tall and white. Other then all 3 having the ability to spread the floor, their games are nothing alike. I see a lot of Bradley's game (when he was playing well) in KP. Again, the ability to use height and length to to protect the basket and block shots. I think that KP will develop a similar post up game to Bradley. Impossible to compare now because we haven't seen KP post up yet, but those quick spin moves or one or two dribbles before he uses his height and length to score I think will be similar. The differences are that KP has a sweet shooting form and although we didn't see him shoot much, I think he is going to be good from midrange out. I also think that KP is going to have a tremendous work ethic which will elevate him above the comparison to Bradley, but again I see similarities to Bradley that I don't see to Dirk or Bargs. I think the biggest thing for KP that will elevate his game is when he gets strong enough to establish deep post position, and I don't think it will take him that long to do it.

some more film of Bradley. check the way Bradley sets the pick and then pops from the top of the key and how he stays on his feet and uses his length to defend and block shots

It seems like you've never watched any of KP's ACB highlights. He's much closer to Dirk, Pau and Bargs, than Bradley. KP is a fluid, skilled and athletic player. Bradley could move great for a guy his size but still not as fluid as KP. Yes they both have that height and length to play over the top of the defense, but KP is in constant motion on offense and can face up and drive by his man, run, catch and shoot from anywhere on the floor. Bradley wasn't really that kind of player. KP can also move his feet on D very well and I think he'd be a bit more agile than Bradley. Once again their height and length makes KP and Bradley similar in that aspect, but KP has that ability to move like a smaller player.

TripleThreat wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value.

The general problem is the team CANNOT RAISE MELOS TRADE VALUE

The guy has a No Trade Clause. The only practical trade would be the Lakers, given it's a fit for the large market Melo desires and there's a history with Phil Jackson and that franchise and that franchise looks to acquire a "big name" for when Kobe Bryant finally burns out.

Raising someone's trade value would be like having the Red Sox and the Yankees fight over a player at the trade deadline in the past. Except in this case, said player can say - I'm only going to the Red Sox, thus removing almost all trade leverage of having the Yankees in play.

I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar. That's all the Knicks are going to get here if Melo is traded. He's not going to agree to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. There's a good chance the Knicks will have to take a mediocre contract back as well to make the salaries match.

To drive down the price, Melo will do what many athletes do. Attack the fanbase, attack the front office, attack his team mates in the press, act like a malcontent, refuse to play even less defense than before, shotjack and never pass the ball. Basically be a sulking bitch, which Melo seems to do well.

For Zinger's sake, the Knicks better hope Melo is off the roster IF Zinger does turn into a franchise core. Fans chanting for Zinger and him getting any kind of real press buzz will only incite a low IQ selfish chucker like Melo.

What's going to amuse me the most, what will make me laugh out loud, is when Melo does get traded, that the most ardent Melo ball lickers on this forum, who try to excuse every last horse **** / team killing behavior he does, will finally turn on him and start to trash on him.

I think he meant it more of in the sense that a "rising tide lifts all boats". This team is flimsy without Carmelo giving a maximum effort and playing he kind of ball he is capable of playing. At that point the Knicks at the least will be ABLE TO TRADE Anthony. Forget about getting value back. Just the fact that he and his salary can be dumped is a net positive if the Knicks are rebuilding around The Zinger.

If the Knicks happen to get a pick or two or a young player and pick, whatever. All the better. No matter what they won't get full or even half value. But anything plus the ability to truly rebuild
Is worth it.