nixluva wrote:

NumberTwoPencil wrote:Um, Charlie Ward also won the Heisman Trophy. He might possibly have had his mind on one or things other than football while he was in college. Not that that's particularly good or bad. I don't see comparing Grant to Ward a diss at all. Ward had a better career than most. There are a lot more Frank Williams around than Charlie Wards. That said . . . here's hoping Grant becomes Mike Conley.

I would have to disagree tho. I think people may have respected Ward but no one is gonna be happy if all Jerian turned out to be was another Charlie Ward. Perhaps with the passage of time people are remembering Ward a bit more fondly than they did at the time he was playing. He was a guy that you couldn't hate cuz he was such a decent guy but he wasn't anything special as a player. I think if Jerian is more like a Mike Conley that we'd all be much happier with that result than a Charlie Ward.

happy if he is Mike Connelly? That is a ridiculous expectation.

We should be happy if a pick is serviceable. If we get more, GREAT! Expect more? This is our problem as knick fans.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NumberTwoPencil wrote:Um, Charlie Ward also won the Heisman Trophy. He might possibly have had his mind on one or things other than football while he was in college. Not that that's particularly good or bad. I don't see comparing Grant to Ward a diss at all. Ward had a better career than most. There are a lot more Frank Williams around than Charlie Wards. That said . . . here's hoping Grant becomes Mike Conley.

I would have to disagree tho. I think people may have respected Ward but no one is gonna be happy if all Jerian turned out to be was another Charlie Ward. Perhaps with the passage of time people are remembering Ward a bit more fondly than they did at the time he was playing. He was a guy that you couldn't hate cuz he was such a decent guy but he wasn't anything special as a player. I think if Jerian is more like a Mike Conley that we'd all be much happier with that result than a Charlie Ward.

happy if he is Mike Connelly? That is a ridiculous expectation.

We should be happy if a pick is serviceable. If we get more, GREAT! Expect more? This is our problem as knick fans.

Happy if a pick is serviceable? Why should that be the case if we truly see much more talent in the player than that? Jerian comes in with more talent and skill than Shumpert did and I would certainly hope he has more of an impact than Shumpert. Jerian has more skill and BB IQ than THJ and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him. Jerian has more talent than Charlie Ward and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him as well.

There's nothing wrong with expectations that are based on the actual talent the player has. No one has said we expect Jerian to become one of the All Time Greats. Suggesting that he could be like a Mike Conley isn't putting wild expectations on what Jerian could be. No one is saying that he's going to just come in and reach his full potential day one either. I do think Jerian could reach the level Conley is at in his career.

Mike Conley 2014-15 Season
PPG	APG	RPG	PER
15.8	5.4	3.0	18.61

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NumberTwoPencil wrote:Um, Charlie Ward also won the Heisman Trophy. He might possibly have had his mind on one or things other than football while he was in college. Not that that's particularly good or bad. I don't see comparing Grant to Ward a diss at all. Ward had a better career than most. There are a lot more Frank Williams around than Charlie Wards. That said . . . here's hoping Grant becomes Mike Conley.

I would have to disagree tho. I think people may have respected Ward but no one is gonna be happy if all Jerian turned out to be was another Charlie Ward. Perhaps with the passage of time people are remembering Ward a bit more fondly than they did at the time he was playing. He was a guy that you couldn't hate cuz he was such a decent guy but he wasn't anything special as a player. I think if Jerian is more like a Mike Conley that we'd all be much happier with that result than a Charlie Ward.

happy if he is Mike Connelly? That is a ridiculous expectation.

We should be happy if a pick is serviceable. If we get more, GREAT! Expect more? This is our problem as knick fans.

Happy if a pick is serviceable? Why should that be the case if we truly see much more talent in the player than that? Jerian comes in with more talent and skill than Shumpert did and I would certainly hope he has more of an impact than Shumpert. Jerian has more skill and BB IQ than THJ and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him. Jerian has more talent than Charlie Ward and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him as well.

There's nothing wrong with expectations that are based on the actual talent the player has. No one has said we expect Jerian to become one of the All Time Greats. Suggesting that he could be like a Mike Conley isn't putting wild expectations on what Jerian could be. No one is saying that he's going to just come in and reach his full potential day one either. I do think Jerian could reach the level Conley is at in his career.

Mike Conley 2014-15 Season
PPG	APG	RPG	PER
15.8	5.4	3.0	18.61

I will be happy if this pick is serviceable (not a bust)

you will be happy if he is mike conley

this is everything that is wrong with knick fans

Perhaps you're thinking that we're saying Jerian has to be great right out of the gate, but that's not what we're saying. No one is saying that Jerian has to come out in his rookie year and be Mike Conley right off the bat. We can't know what his rookie year will be like but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the talent to be in the range of a Mike Conley. You don't like the Conley comp, how about Derek Fisher? At his peak Fish was about 13 ppg 4 asts 3 rebs 1.5 stls. I think Jerian has a little more talent than Fisher did.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NumberTwoPencil wrote:Um, Charlie Ward also won the Heisman Trophy. He might possibly have had his mind on one or things other than football while he was in college. Not that that's particularly good or bad. I don't see comparing Grant to Ward a diss at all. Ward had a better career than most. There are a lot more Frank Williams around than Charlie Wards. That said . . . here's hoping Grant becomes Mike Conley.

I would have to disagree tho. I think people may have respected Ward but no one is gonna be happy if all Jerian turned out to be was another Charlie Ward. Perhaps with the passage of time people are remembering Ward a bit more fondly than they did at the time he was playing. He was a guy that you couldn't hate cuz he was such a decent guy but he wasn't anything special as a player. I think if Jerian is more like a Mike Conley that we'd all be much happier with that result than a Charlie Ward.

happy if he is Mike Connelly? That is a ridiculous expectation.

We should be happy if a pick is serviceable. If we get more, GREAT! Expect more? This is our problem as knick fans.

Happy if a pick is serviceable? Why should that be the case if we truly see much more talent in the player than that? Jerian comes in with more talent and skill than Shumpert did and I would certainly hope he has more of an impact than Shumpert. Jerian has more skill and BB IQ than THJ and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him. Jerian has more talent than Charlie Ward and so I would expect him to have more of an impact than him as well.

There's nothing wrong with expectations that are based on the actual talent the player has. No one has said we expect Jerian to become one of the All Time Greats. Suggesting that he could be like a Mike Conley isn't putting wild expectations on what Jerian could be. No one is saying that he's going to just come in and reach his full potential day one either. I do think Jerian could reach the level Conley is at in his career.

Mike Conley 2014-15 Season
PPG	APG	RPG	PER
15.8	5.4	3.0	18.61

I will be happy if this pick is serviceable (not a bust)

you will be happy if he is mike conley

this is everything that is wrong with knick fans

Why is it somehow wrong to assess the talent your 1st rd pick has and see hope for him being a good player. What you're suggesting is that we shouldn't expect Jerian to be any good. Why would you be happy with Charlie Ward 2.0 from Jerian? Somehow I don't believe that was on Phil's mind when he drafted Jerian. He was looking at KP and Jerian as a future core to this team and I would think he hopes to get more than a 8 ppg guard out of Jerian.

Perhaps you're thinking that we're saying Jerian has to be great right out of the gate, but that's not what we're saying. No one is saying that Jerian has to come out in his rookie year and be Mike Conley right off the bat. We can't know what his rookie year will be like but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the talent to be in the range of a Mike Conley. You don't like the Conley comp, how about Derek Fisher? At his peak Fish was about 13 ppg 4 asts 3 rebs 1.5 stls. I think Jerian has a little more talent than Fisher did.

ok ... let me try another angle.

what do you think that odds are of Grant becoming as good as Mike Conely?

What do you think the odds are for Grant to have a career as good as Ward?

What do you think the odds are for Grant to be a bust?

mreinman wrote:

TheGame wrote:Grant looks like a solid PG who can shoot and pass. He should have no probably being serviceable, and I think he can get to borderline All-Star level. Derick Harper is a good comp, but I think Grant will be a better scorer. I think the kid will be a 17 pt, 8 ast, 3 RPG, 1 stl type guy.

based on what? Do you know how many guards picked in the first rounds were complete busts?

last offseason many fans were convinced that THJ was the next reggie miller. Now he looks like the next reggie williams.

Seriously some thought Hardaway was a 20ppg scorer, I couldn't stand that pick. I still can't believe we got a first rounder for him. If Grant ends up a middle of the road starter I will be absolutely ecstatic.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TheGame wrote:Grant looks like a solid PG who can shoot and pass. He should have no probably being serviceable, and I think he can get to borderline All-Star level. Derick Harper is a good comp, but I think Grant will be a better scorer. I think the kid will be a 17 pt, 8 ast, 3 RPG, 1 stl type guy.

based on what? Do you know how many guards picked in the first rounds were complete busts?

last offseason many fans were convinced that THJ was the next reggie miller. Now he looks like the next reggie williams.

This is PURE BULL ISH!!! No one was talking like that. You need to stop.

GTFOH!!!!!!

yes they were

NBAdraft said this:

NBA Comparison: Reggie Jackson/Bobby Jackson
Strengths: A familiar face for those who follow college basketball, Jerian Grant is a high level athlete for an NBA guard with explosive hops, strength, quick reflexes, and nice lateral speed ... From an athletic, size standpoint alone, Grant screams NBA translation ... At 6’5’’, and a mature 205 pounds, he possesses excellent size for an NBA point guard, and if you peg him into an off guard he still has good positional size ... Jerian’s athletic ability and length allowed him to finish at a truly elite clip for an NCAA guard ... He made 73.1% of his shots at the rim as a senior ... Grant also has developed into a player who takes extremely good care of the ball, while setting up his teammates at a high level ... His 6.7 assists per game as a senior (7th in the nation), were met with just 2.2 turnovers per game, which was good for a 3.04 assist/to ratio ... Grant is also a strong shooter, both off the dribble, and spotting up ... He hits FT’s at a good clip (78%) ... His ball handling allows him to create space for himself, and he’s a very savvy 1 on 1 player, who has showed improved shot selection as he’s progressed as a player ... From a defensive standpoint, he looks to be a player who can translate to the next level ... He’s capable defending on the ball, and he’s also good in the passing lanes, which allowed him to finish 6th in the ACC in steals per game ... He also is good challenging the shots of smaller guards, and even in the NBA his length will prove an asset when getting a hand up on NBA sized guards ... Grant has also shown the ability to step up in big games ... He looked amazing in Notre Dame’s run in the ACC tournament, and followed it up with a solid NCAA tournament

Weaknesses: While a polished and athletic guard, the first thing that comes up with a player like Jerian is how much left does he have to improve ... He’ll turn 23 before his first NBA game, and although I feel he’s not done developing, some may feel he lacks the ceiling of a younger player ... Grant also got off to a hot start his junior year from beyond the arc before sitting out the second half of the season for academic reasons ... Despite an early .408% clip, he regressed as a senior, and shot a pretty unimpressive .316% from downtown ... Although Grant has good shooting ability, many of these shots were not quality shots, often coming off the dribble ... He needs to adjust both his long range shot selection, and just gain more deep reps when looking towards the next level ... He is also viewed as a combo guard of sorts, which isn’t a huge deal because of his positional size, if he is indeed a point guard, then he’s huge, but if he’s an off guard with some point skills, he doesn’t have that same advantage and intrigue ... Improving upon the ability to set up others in the pick and roll will be important to his future ...

Overall: Jerian Grant could help just about any team from day 1, he’s a smart, well rounded player with highlight-reel hops (ask Tadrick Jackson), and NBA level skills at the point ... His development in college leads me to believe he still has some room for growth, and his athletic ability and size is top notch ... Today you’d like your guards to be a little better shooting from distance, but with some reps paired with getting used to his role in the NBA game, that could be something Grant could develop ... Despite his age Grant is most definitely a first round talent, and could be a real sleeper if teams underestimate what he can do, in favor of focusing on the year he was born ...

So my question for anyone who is predicting Charlie Ward is simply why? This is not a case of Knick fans pumping up a late first round shooting guard with a pretty average college career as the next anything. This was one of the best college players in the country who had huge performances on the NCAAs biggest stage.

seems the only knock on him from the people paid to write about this stuff is he's not 19.

So if your calling Grant a Charlie Ward hopefull your in the minority and Im curious to your reasoning behind this. THjr was never regarded a top player in the NCAA. Grant most certainly was

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TheGame wrote:Grant looks like a solid PG who can shoot and pass. He should have no probably being serviceable, and I think he can get to borderline All-Star level. Derick Harper is a good comp, but I think Grant will be a better scorer. I think the kid will be a 17 pt, 8 ast, 3 RPG, 1 stl type guy.

based on what? Do you know how many guards picked in the first rounds were complete busts?

last offseason many fans were convinced that THJ was the next reggie miller. Now he looks like the next reggie williams.

This is PURE BULL ISH!!! No one was talking like that. You need to stop.

GTFOH!!!!!!

yes they were

how about we go in a different direction? Grant was one of the best college players in the country. Draftexpress had him at 15, dropping mostly because of age, but end of the lottery.

NBAdraft said this:

NBA Comparison: Reggie Jackson/Bobby Jackson
Strengths: A familiar face for those who follow college basketball, Jerian Grant is a high level athlete for an NBA guard with explosive hops, strength, quick reflexes, and nice lateral speed ... From an athletic, size standpoint alone, Grant screams NBA translation ... At 6’5’’, and a mature 205 pounds, he possesses excellent size for an NBA point guard, and if you peg him into an off guard he still has good positional size ... Jerian’s athletic ability and length allowed him to finish at a truly elite clip for an NCAA guard ... He made 73.1% of his shots at the rim as a senior ... Grant also has developed into a player who takes extremely good care of the ball, while setting up his teammates at a high level ... His 6.7 assists per game as a senior (7th in the nation), were met with just 2.2 turnovers per game, which was good for a 3.04 assist/to ratio ... Grant is also a strong shooter, both off the dribble, and spotting up ... He hits FT’s at a good clip (78%) ... His ball handling allows him to create space for himself, and he’s a very savvy 1 on 1 player, who has showed improved shot selection as he’s progressed as a player ... From a defensive standpoint, he looks to be a player who can translate to the next level ... He’s capable defending on the ball, and he’s also good in the passing lanes, which allowed him to finish 6th in the ACC in steals per game ... He also is good challenging the shots of smaller guards, and even in the NBA his length will prove an asset when getting a hand up on NBA sized guards ... Grant has also shown the ability to step up in big games ... He looked amazing in Notre Dame’s run in the ACC tournament, and followed it up with a solid NCAA tournament

Weaknesses: While a polished and athletic guard, the first thing that comes up with a player like Jerian is how much left does he have to improve ... He’ll turn 23 before his first NBA game, and although I feel he’s not done developing, some may feel he lacks the ceiling of a younger player ... Grant also got off to a hot start his junior year from beyond the arc before sitting out the second half of the season for academic reasons ... Despite an early .408% clip, he regressed as a senior, and shot a pretty unimpressive .316% from downtown ... Although Grant has good shooting ability, many of these shots were not quality shots, often coming off the dribble ... He needs to adjust both his long range shot selection, and just gain more deep reps when looking towards the next level ... He is also viewed as a combo guard of sorts, which isn’t a huge deal because of his positional size, if he is indeed a point guard, then he’s huge, but if he’s an off guard with some point skills, he doesn’t have that same advantage and intrigue ... Improving upon the ability to set up others in the pick and roll will be important to his future ...

Overall: Jerian Grant could help just about any team from day 1, he’s a smart, well rounded player with highlight-reel hops (ask Tadrick Jackson), and NBA level skills at the point ... His development in college leads me to believe he still has some room for growth, and his athletic ability and size is top notch ... Today you’d like your guards to be a little better shooting from distance, but with some reps paired with getting used to his role in the NBA game, that could be something Grant could develop ... Despite his age Grant is most definitely a first round talent, and could be a real sleeper if teams underestimate what he can do, in favor of focusing on the year he was born ...

So my question for anyone who is predicting Charlie Ward is simply why? This is not a case of Knick fans pumping up a late first round shooting guard with a pretty average college career as the next anything. This was one of the best college players in the country who had huge performances on the NCAAs biggest stage.

seems the only knock on him from the people paid to write about this stuff is he's not 19.

So if your calling Grant a Charlie Ward hopefull your in the minority and Im curious to your reasoning behind this. THjr was never regarded a top player in the NCAA. Grant most certainly was

I don't hope he is charlie ward, that is what I expect. I hope that he is chris paul.

how many mid first round picks turn into Mike Conely? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 50?

Ill ask again...

What about Grant the basketball player tells you he's going to translate into a Ward caliber player? What are your concerns that have you projecting him much lower than expectations? Reggie Jackson/Bobby Jackson is a hell of a lot better than Charlie Ward.

Im just asking you to back up your opinion with observations.

A. No comparison is a good comparison.