franco12 wrote:Mudiay was the guy I wanted at 4- and if I were going to start a hang you butt out there and make you're call to look back in 3-5 years, he would be the guy for me.

That said, I like KP, I like what he has done and what he might become.

But its summer league! And there is no way we can know until several years down the line.

Mudiay is clearly the best guard locked in this draft but he was not a fit here. We needed and a big and we potentially got the 1st, 2nd or 3rd best big in the draft at 4.

It's Towns, KP, OK4(less cornerstone potential) & Turner(need to see if he keeps it up when the real season starts.

And we got Grant who fits this system like a glove. We had our best draft in 31yrs. Relax folks

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

Yeah right..Melo is our best rebounder and can flat out score..Melo isn't one dimensional..If Mudiay hits his jumpers he is an all star and one of the best players in the league..

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

Yeah right..Melo is our best rebounder and can flat out score..Melo isn't one dimensional..If Mudiay hits his jumpers he is an all star and one of the best players in the league..

That's the thing holfresh. Being our best rebounder isn't that good.

Melo's averaged 6 rebounds for his career which is around average for a small forward. Larry Bird averaged 10 boards a game in his career. Julius Erving 8.5 rebounds a game. Lebron 7 boards a game. Even Shawn Marion averaged 8.7 rebounds for his career.

Being Melo at 6'8 230 with any amount of athleticism you should luck into at least 6 boards. He's not great at rebounding, period.

It took John Wall until about year 4 or 5 to consistently hit the 3 pointer teams were giving him(finally cracking 30% 3PT).

Mudiay will have work like he's never worked before to achieve a consistent jumper. We shall see.

KP skill set also compliments Melo. So even if he is the future, he still fits well with the team we have today.

He showed greta promise physically but lets take a look at some of the numbers vs his original scouting report.

Reports cant shoot well--shooting % 38 3 pt% .14
Turnover prone 4 game s AVERAGE was the highest in SL at 5 a game
Not a great FT shooter 50%

So when you walk out of SL the reason why he was bypassed by some just like Winslow did not change. He has some cracks that will need to be addressed and they wont be fixed for some time. That doesnt mean he cant be a great player one day--but reinforces why we may have bypassed him.

I like our chances in what will develop into a 7-3 skill center Take away the 3 point shot and he made more than 60% of his attempts played good D and showed overall quality skills.

BRIGGS wrote:Mudaiy played well at times and others not so much. There were plenty of guys ahead of him--but looking through numbers--hes got a lot of talent AND he has a LONG way to go.

He showed greta promise physically but lets take a look at some of the numbers vs his original scouting report.

Reports cant shoot well--shooting % 38 3 pt% .14
Turnover prone 4 game s AVERAGE was the highest in SL at 5 a game
Not a great FT shooter 50%

So when you walk out of SL the reason why he was bypassed by some just like Winslow did not change. He has some cracks that will need to be addressed and they wont be fixed for some time. That doesnt mean he cant be a great player one day--but reinforces why we may have bypassed him.

I like our chances in what will develop into a 7-3 skill center Take away the 3 point shot and he made more than 60% of his attempts played good D and showed overall quality skills.

I agree with this. 7-3 player with skill come around almost never.

This isn't a guard or wing player....a 7 foot 3 player with this skill, instinct, IQ, and athleticism anticipated and played the passing lane and flushed it like it was a breakfast turd.

Man I shiver at the thought of his ceiling once this guy gets introduced to Shake Shak...

Nalod wrote:1. Can't make proclamations on summer league. If so, Jeremy Tyler is a god.
2. Even if Mundiay/Melo can make playoffs, whats the ceiling?

From what I have seen of KP is not ming blowing until the fact that he is SEVEN FOOT FUCKIG THREE!!! and doing this ****!!

Some are very short oriented. A few summer league games and we gonna get all "told ya so". Phill did what no body thought he'd do, think long term and not build around the here and now for Melo. If thats what ya want, then sorry.

Does this mean we automatically trade Melo at some point? Not sure, its a fluid situation. Thats why no proclamations for a few years.

It SHOULD mean we trade Melo, but might not. That's more or less up to him. I like Melo, but recognize his shortcomings and also the fact that his window is not well-aligned with the team's plan. If he wants to stick around for the rebuild, and can put team development ahead of his desire for a chip, then I will appreciate his incredible scoring ability, especially late in close games and in the playoffs.

But the sensible thing to do for Melo and the Knicks is to trade him for maximum value by the deadline. We need a solid return for him in players and picks. Not sure where he'd go that would give us value, but I imagine something may turn up. Meanwhile, SO stoked to watch Zinger and Grant develop into team cornerstones. Let's fuggin GO!