TripleThreat wrote:

Dagger wrote:
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/07/knicks-to-re-sign-louis-amundson.html

1 yr/1.65 million so I guess it's not the vets min

Will turn 33 in December

Aging journeyman who would not crack the 15 man roster for about 90 percent of the league.

Has no further room for development.

Can offer no mentorship/guidance to Zinger regarding low post play

Cuts into the opportunity cost of valuable minutes, which could be offered to a young player with actual upside.

****

I'm not saying Phil Jackson could have gotten the cream of the crop here, but these were all UDFAs where Phil Jackson could have simply outworked every other GM and franchise and laid the full court press predraft to entice anyone who fell out of the draft to want to play for the Knicks and the open minutes and roster spots the Knicks had.

Lou Amundson is the lazy choice. Getting one of the better UDFAs here would have been a function of just plain hard work and dedication.

Thanks for nothing Phil....

You mention one aspect of the game that he could possibly not help KP with, post play, and that's it? There aren't like 100 other aspect of playing and being a professional and other player he could teach?

Also if he won't crack the 15 man rotation he won't take away time from anyone but another 15th or 14th player who really doesn't have the worth.

And the dude can be a 3rd string bench guy in case of injury. And he probably goes super hard in practice, which is invaluable.

AlexanderFuSheng wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Phew, I'm pleased about this- a good, hardworking vet who hustles, and brings some continuity from last season. I like that all the new guys (apart from D Williams) are hard workers. I was worried he was going elsewhere. I know he isn't the most gifted player, but never underestimate the value of veterans with good attitudes.

Yeah, that's exactly what this team needs.

That might be the funniest/saddest thing ever posted in this forum.

People keep assuming that this team lost because they didn't know how to run the system but that wasn't the problem. It was the lack of scoring talent. They ran the plays properly but if you can't create, shoot or finish at a high level then it doesn't matter. There's still some continuity to be had from having players who know the offense and can show it to the new guys and help them out when they get confused.

Think about it, does it make sense to have almost no one from last year and start with all new players or take the guys who demonstrated that they understood the system and the culture and mix them in with the new guys? It's just logical.

TripleThreat wrote:

martin wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Dagger wrote:
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/07/knicks-to-re-sign-louis-amundson.html

1 yr/1.65 million so I guess it's not the vets min

Will turn 33 in December

Aging journeyman who would not crack the 15 man roster for about 90 percent of the league.

Has no further room for development.

Can offer no mentorship/guidance to Zinger regarding low post play

Cuts into the opportunity cost of valuable minutes, which could be offered to a young player with actual upside.

****

I'm not saying Phil Jackson could have gotten the cream of the crop here, but these were all UDFAs where Phil Jackson could have simply outworked every other GM and franchise and laid the full court press predraft to entice anyone who fell out of the draft to want to play for the Knicks and the open minutes and roster spots the Knicks had.

Lou Amundson is the lazy choice. Getting one of the better UDFAs here would have been a function of just plain hard work and dedication.

Thanks for nothing Phil....

You mention one aspect of the game that he could possibly not help KP with, post play, and that's it? There aren't like 100 other aspect of playing and being a professional and other player he could teach?

Also if he won't crack the 15 man rotation he won't take away time from anyone but another 15th or 14th player who really doesn't have the worth.

And the dude can be a 3rd string bench guy in case of injury. And he probably goes super hard in practice, which is invaluable.

Amundson is a fringe journey man. He can do nothing to help relate to Zinger as to the pressure of being a high lottery pick with the weight of the franchise on his shoulders. He can't even talk about the basic grind of a year in/year out, NBA starter. He can do things like talk about how to stay prepared when you only get 3-5 minutes a game or don't play for stretches of the season. Or the little things you can do to keep your job as a fringe 15th man, things that have no bearing on Zinger's current circumstances.

A 14th or 15th man who was a UDFA and recently out of the college game can be sent to the D League to develop. Maybe that player turns into something more. There's upside there. Amundson doesn't give you that upside.

My contention is there wasn't a huge line for Amundson's services before the Knicks got him, and there wasn't a huge line for his services this offseason. My thinking is if there were injuries and the Knicks needed someone to fill out the roster, there would be a good chance that Admundson would still be out there, willing to take a pro rate minimum vets contract to stay in the show for just a little bit longer.

If the Knicks like Amundson's leadership abilities, then ask him to turn in his retirement papers and hire him as a coach.

Galloway, giving an opportunity to an UDFA is an example of how you can lure in more UDFA's with upside. Maybe get a guy who has the pedigree to be worthy of a 2nd round pick in a do over draft, but simply fell through the cracks in his real draft. Other UDFAs can look at Galloway and say, Hey yeah, maybe I won't win a ring with this team, but it's not like a team like the Spurs or Warriors or Cavs or Bulls are going to have a ton of developmental minutes to hand out, maybe I can get some burn here and prove my worth to the entire league.

You can get some of the above by giving a Galloway minutes, you don't by giving a Admundson minutes.

Seems like you have zero experience of playing team ball at a high level. Guys like Admoundson add a ton to a team and to young guys. Knicks got enough young players, time to develop them.

smackeddog wrote:You can't keep starting over from scratch every season- you need continuity.....

IMHO, the Knicks spent last season enduring the long term impact of decisions that hurt them for years. Waiting for STAT and Bargs contracts to expire. Moving JR Smith and Shumpert off the roster.

I agree that nothing can be gained from starting from scratch year after year, but is that the case here? ( This isn't the Cleveland Browns who, in four years, had three head coaches and a shift from three different front office regimes as well as an ownership changeover)

Anytime a team suffers a long period of losing in pro sports and a new regime walks in, a massive turnover in personnel is expected and nominal.

IMHO, when you have one of the least talented teams in the league coming into the offseason, what you need the most is a talent infusion with upside or veteran stalwarts with the experience and pedigree who provide a support structure for your younger players.

A Lou Amundson is a year to year fringe proposition, even if he works out in the highest possible sense of practical return.

A Christian Wood or Michael Frazier type, or even a tier lower of young prospect, could give the Knicks an entire career of practical return. Is it likely? No, probably not, but at least the potential is there.

martin wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

martin wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Dagger wrote:
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/07/knicks-to-re-sign-louis-amundson.html

1 yr/1.65 million so I guess it's not the vets min

Will turn 33 in December

Aging journeyman who would not crack the 15 man roster for about 90 percent of the league.

Has no further room for development.

Can offer no mentorship/guidance to Zinger regarding low post play

Cuts into the opportunity cost of valuable minutes, which could be offered to a young player with actual upside.

****

I'm not saying Phil Jackson could have gotten the cream of the crop here, but these were all UDFAs where Phil Jackson could have simply outworked every other GM and franchise and laid the full court press predraft to entice anyone who fell out of the draft to want to play for the Knicks and the open minutes and roster spots the Knicks had.

Lou Amundson is the lazy choice. Getting one of the better UDFAs here would have been a function of just plain hard work and dedication.

Thanks for nothing Phil....

You mention one aspect of the game that he could possibly not help KP with, post play, and that's it? There aren't like 100 other aspect of playing and being a professional and other player he could teach?

Also if he won't crack the 15 man rotation he won't take away time from anyone but another 15th or 14th player who really doesn't have the worth.

And the dude can be a 3rd string bench guy in case of injury. And he probably goes super hard in practice, which is invaluable.

Amundson is a fringe journey man. He can do nothing to help relate to Zinger as to the pressure of being a high lottery pick with the weight of the franchise on his shoulders. He can't even talk about the basic grind of a year in/year out, NBA starter. He can do things like talk about how to stay prepared when you only get 3-5 minutes a game or don't play for stretches of the season. Or the little things you can do to keep your job as a fringe 15th man, things that have no bearing on Zinger's current circumstances.

A 14th or 15th man who was a UDFA and recently out of the college game can be sent to the D League to develop. Maybe that player turns into something more. There's upside there. Amundson doesn't give you that upside.

My contention is there wasn't a huge line for Amundson's services before the Knicks got him, and there wasn't a huge line for his services this offseason. My thinking is if there were injuries and the Knicks needed someone to fill out the roster, there would be a good chance that Admundson would still be out there, willing to take a pro rate minimum vets contract to stay in the show for just a little bit longer.

If the Knicks like Amundson's leadership abilities, then ask him to turn in his retirement papers and hire him as a coach.

Galloway, giving an opportunity to an UDFA is an example of how you can lure in more UDFA's with upside. Maybe get a guy who has the pedigree to be worthy of a 2nd round pick in a do over draft, but simply fell through the cracks in his real draft. Other UDFAs can look at Galloway and say, Hey yeah, maybe I won't win a ring with this team, but it's not like a team like the Spurs or Warriors or Cavs or Bulls are going to have a ton of developmental minutes to hand out, maybe I can get some burn here and prove my worth to the entire league.

You can get some of the above by giving a Galloway minutes, you don't by giving a Admundson minutes.

Seems like you have zero experience of playing team ball at a high level. Guys like Admoundson add a ton to a team and to young guys. Knicks got enough young players, time to develop them.

I'm discussing the opportunity cost of minutes, for future development, for an UDFA, a young player likely to be 19-20 with a future developmental window vs a 33 year old journeyman who has struggled to stay on NBA rosters. I think that's a salient basketball discussion.

My "experience" otherwise isn't. That's personal. I don't see anything I've said to you to get to the point to take it personal other than to disagree with you.

This is your site. I appreciate being allowed to be a guest on your site. That being said, since you run the site, there is nothing to be gained on my end by grinding the discussion where you are taking it. It's "ad hominem" You aren't looking to discredit my argument based on my opinion, you are looking to discredit my opinion based on trying to discredit me.

My position is that if Phil Jackson had worked harder and longer, he could have tried to get a Christian Wood or a Michael Frazier or even a prospect a tier below that, and the season long utility of minutes and future upside would far outweigh the acquisition of a veteran fringe journeyman, like Admundson, where there seemingly was no other competition for his services around the league, and his signing IMHO seemed to be simply taking the path of least resistance for a rookie coach and rookie decision maker. My other position is if the point is to acquire a battle tested veteran for a leadership/mentor role, there are simply more players out there still with more actual NBA playing time pedigree, starting experience and actual practical service time available to help young players like Zinger and Grant.

I suppose all I can say at this point is we can always simply agree to disagree. I'll exit this thread now, since there is no other upside here. Specifically and openly, I acknowledge Ultimate Knicks is your site.