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GustavBahler
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6/26/2015  10:21 AM
B+

Hernangomez looks like a good faith pick to make Porzingis feel more at home. A better pick there and I would have given Phil an A.

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newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  10:22 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.


What does when you sign up on a message board have to do with talking about the Knicks?? I've been a Knick fan longer than most on here but was never really a message board guy so I didn't sign up until late but I can talk Knicks with anyone on this board cause i've been a die hard for so long and know as much as anyone about my Knicks.
NardDogNation
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6/26/2015  10:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2015  10:35 AM
thejerk wrote:A++,Phil hit a home run for us last night. Just be patient, he'll coach them up.

Dude....Phil ain't the coach. Hell, Phil is hardly the damn Team President. Heard he missed several workouts AND was at a Tony Bennett/Lady Gaga concert last night. You'd think that he'd be working the phones for any last minute deals? Nope, he had to listen to Paparazzi in-****ing-person.

NardDogNation
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6/26/2015  10:34 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.


What does when you sign up on a message board have to do with talking about the Knicks?? I've been a Knick fan longer than most on here but was never really a message board guy so I didn't sign up until late but I can talk Knicks with anyone on this board cause i've been a die hard for so long and know as much as anyone about my Knicks.

The guy was a dick and Briggs handled him accordingly. It seems that you are just trying to pick a fight with Briggs on any and every issue.

newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  10:39 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:I give it an "A". We had Mudiay, Winslow, Hezonja and WCS as the other options and many of us wanted one of them ahead of Kris. The thing is that Kris was considered by most to have possibly the highest upside. We may have different views on who we should've taken but the general consensus is that Kris has the most upside. If Phil and his staff felt strongly about his chances of realizing that talent then it makes the most sense to swing for the fences. We don't just want another guy. We want a star and franchise player. Kris has the potential to be that more than any of the others we could've taken. So I can understand why Phil chose him instead.

The Jerian Grant pick was brilliant. There is no negative or doubt about the move. Solid guard to replace a player who didn't seem to fit.

The Hernangomez pick was solid. He looks like a solid big who has the needed skills and bb IQ to function in the Triangle. Still needs more development but he can play.


If Phil farts you think it's an A..He farts roses doesn't he..

Again I wrote very clear rationale for why I believe it was a great draft. If you disagree with the points then make your counter points. Otherwise just complaining cuz I like what Phil did is childish. I'm not liking the moves for no reason. I didn't say anything that was over the top. I think it's just easy to be negative without any real rationale. Just hate for hate's sake.
You don't have to agree with the pick in order to see the rationale and value of the pick. Your posts lack any depth or reason and it's just a personal attack, which is one thing but it would be better if you could argue the points too.

It's funny how the people on here that are negative about every single move the Knicks make are even negative towards the people that wanna be optimistic/positive about the Knicks. Lol it must be tough living in the negative all the time so I feel bad for those people.

mreinman
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6/26/2015  10:44 AM
nixluva wrote:I give it an "A". We had Mudiay, Winslow, Hezonja and WCS as the other options and many of us wanted one of them ahead of Kris. The thing is that Kris was considered by most to have possibly the highest upside. We may have different views on who we should've taken but the general consensus is that Kris has the most upside. If Phil and his staff felt strongly about his chances of realizing that talent then it makes the most sense to swing for the fences. We don't just want another guy. We want a star and franchise player. Kris has the potential to be that more than any of the others we could've taken. So I can understand why Phil chose him instead.

The Jerian Grant pick was brilliant. There is no negative or doubt about the move. Solid guard to replace a player who didn't seem to fit.

The Hernangomez pick was solid. He looks like a solid big who has the needed skills and bb IQ to function in the Triangle. Still needs more development but he can play.

haha you were going to give it (at least) an A no matter who we picked.

Maybe if the knicks all went to the bathroom and missed their pick you might have given it a B. Though you would have stated that if you gotta go you gotta go ... its just unlucky but phil can build a great team and does not need this pick.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
earthmansurfer
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6/26/2015  10:47 AM
Finestrg wrote:Porzingis - A. Huge skill level and upside. Pipe the F down Stephen A. We swung for the fences with the pick which was the right thing to do. Feel bad for him that he got booed--doesn't look like that's gonna throw him. I like that he laughs and says he's not some soft Euro. who can't play, as if he can't wait to show people how wrong they are about him.

Grant - A. Solid B+ for the player with a chance to be higher but this gets an A because the trade to get him was so good. THJ was no big time player -- can't believe we were able to turn him into Jerian Grant. THJ could easily be replaced by any number of talented young SGs out there, starting with Ricky Ledo.

Willy Hernangomez - B. First off, Kudos for landing another pick that high. I really wanted to see us target some guard help in round 2 (Joe Young, Pat Connaughton) but I still like this pickup more than most I guess. We needed big men -- this guy's young, big and skilled. Looked at a lot of tape--not the most athletic guy in the world but I definitely don't see a plodder. I actually think he moves around well. I think he'll rebound, he'll defend positionally, he'll score in the post with both hands on some decent-looking moves, get to the line and make his FTs, and he does have a mid-range J. Reminds me of Marcin Gortat/Nikola Pekovic/Tiago Splitter -- all 3 of those guys are successful NBA players. I think he'll be a useful rotation player that will be able to contribute sooner rather than later. That he already has some chemistry with Porzingis is an added bonus.

You saved me some typing, I'll go along with what you said, A, A and B ish. We did INCREDIBLY well. We got the huge upside guy and a relatively high upside guy in Grant. Not sure about Willy, but the name is cool and he probably fits this system especially well (we are halfcourt, so he doesn't need to be the most athletic.)

I'm as happy as I can ever remember being with a draft. I mean we got arguably the highest upside guy that most scouts said nothing but positive things about.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  10:49 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Porzingis A+

Grant A-

Hernangomez F

Multiply the first pick 3 times the second pick 2 and the 2nd rounder 1 30 18 5=53/60 88% B+

I agree except for Hernangomez. I want to give him an F because Christmas was there but he was projected at the spot and I think getting a pick that high in this draft was pretty awesome. I give Hernangomez a C. If it was Christmas I would give the pick an A

Projection means nothing. Can you explain one skill he has for the triangle offense? He is not a defender hes not a passer hes not lengthy. Hes a bully player--rebounds and makes 1/2 of shots that are point blank--the others are blocked at a high rate--TO% is VERY high. The NBA is a FAST league--to fast for this guy. I dont feel the Knicks need any wasted space when there were NBA players that we couldve used available.


Or maybe....just maybe Phil knows what kind of players fits what he's looking for more than you do. That's just a thought. I know it's crazy to think that Phil Jackson would know more about what kind of players he needs for his system than a fan on a message board but it's just a thought. Geesh.
newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  10:51 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Porzingis A+

Grant A-

Hernangomez F

Multiply the first pick 3 times the second pick 2 and the 2nd rounder 1 30 18 5=53/60 88% B+

I agree except for Hernangomez. I want to give him an F because Christmas was there but he was projected at the spot and I think getting a pick that high in this draft was pretty awesome. I give Hernangomez a C. If it was Christmas I would give the pick an A

Projection means nothing. Can you explain one skill he has for the triangle offense? He is not a defender hes not a passer hes not lengthy. Hes a bully player--rebounds and makes 1/2 of shots that are point blank--the others are blocked at a high rate--TO% is VERY high. The NBA is a FAST league--to fast for this guy. I dont feel the Knicks need any wasted space when there were NBA players that we couldve used available.

I have only seem a little bit and was watching Kristaps. I don't know his game at all. I wanted Christmas but I do think the Knicks scouted him.

I was hoping we'd get Christmas to. He was my pick in that thread Briggs made about second rounders we wanted or whatever that thread was and I chose my other Syracuse boy in C.McCullough as the other one I wanted but I really wanted Christmas.
TPercy
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6/26/2015  11:03 AM
A- for me
We just got two potential superstars and an additional 2nd rounder. I would have been much happier if Phil got Rakeem Christmas instead but i guess I'm okay with another Euro. Grant was an absolute steal and he has James Harden./D Wade potential right there.KP is a decent selection it was really between him and Stein.Winslow was nice,but if you want to bring up the stupid argument that we need someone ready to defend now, we already have T-Nasty. As for Mudiay, I still don't and untill he gets to his potential will never understand why he was even considered at 4. I would have taken Payne, Grant, and hell even Delon Wright over him and kudos to Phil for seeing that.
The Future is Bright!
newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  11:04 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.


What does when you sign up on a message board have to do with talking about the Knicks?? I've been a Knick fan longer than most on here but was never really a message board guy so I didn't sign up until late but I can talk Knicks with anyone on this board cause i've been a die hard for so long and know as much as anyone about my Knicks.

The guy was a dick and Briggs handled him accordingly. It seems that you are just trying to pick a fight with Briggs on any and every issue.

I disagree with a lot of the things Briggs says and this message board is to have debates with each other so that's what I do. Briggs also says things I agree with and i've replied to whichever of his posts I agree with saying I agree. This is a message board full of fans that don't agree with each other on everything and is supposed to be used to debate/argue with each other and that's what I do, it's just that I disagree with Briggs more than I agree.

fishmike
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6/26/2015  11:05 AM
I give us an A. Im pumped we had the balls to swing big. Biggest upside player on the board no doubt. Moving THjr for Grant made me excited. I wanted him some with ND and am a huge fan. Big athletic playmaker who will get our guys easier shots. A leader. A floor general. A high character guy and I love his game.

Knicks got better and may have gotten a cornerstone player.

The center in the 2nd round... wait and see.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
StarksEwing1
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6/26/2015  11:07 AM
fishmike wrote:I give us an A. Im pumped we had the balls to swing big. Biggest upside player on the board no doubt. Moving THjr for Grant made me excited. I wanted him some with ND and am a huge fan. Big athletic playmaker who will get our guys easier shots. A leader. A floor general. A high character guy and I love his game.

Knicks got better and may have gotten a cornerstone player.

The center in the 2nd round... wait and see.

agreed fish. Our best draft in years by far
newyorker4ever
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6/26/2015  11:09 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.


What does when you sign up on a message board have to do with talking about the Knicks?? I've been a Knick fan longer than most on here but was never really a message board guy so I didn't sign up until late but I can talk Knicks with anyone on this board cause i've been a die hard for so long and know as much as anyone about my Knicks.

The guy was a dick and Briggs handled him accordingly. It seems that you are just trying to pick a fight with Briggs on any and every issue.

I didn't say he didn't and I actually do think he takes it a little to far with the way he comes at people but all I asked was what does how long someone has been on a message board have to do with talking about the Knicks and I'm still asking that same question?? I haven't been on here all that long but I know as much about the Knicks as anyone on this board so I just don't see how it matters much is all.
I never mean to offend anyone but I take not only the Knicks but all my teams in any sport serious.

NardDogNation
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6/26/2015  11:25 AM
I think our grade is a "B-". It would've been an "A" had we traded down to grab an additional asset and still gotten Jerian Grant.

For the record, I don't mind Porzingis the player but I don't like Porzingis aka the 4th pick in the draft. There is simply too much risk associated with him for me to ever feel comfortable taking him that high, with so many other capable players still on the board WITH upside. And the reality is, Kristaps would've probably slipped had we not taken him at 4, which begs the question WHY NOT TRADE DOWN?!?!?!

Orlando was rumored to have been after Prozingis but their management is an extension of the Spurs/Thunder tree. Those franchises are known to be very secretive about their picks and have a tendency to buck conventional thinkings. Just last year, EVERYONE and their mother thought the Magic would be taking Dante Exum with the 4th pick and instead they went with Aaron Gordon, a reach by everyone's standards. There is, however, a theme that emerges with their picks: they ALL are skilled, gritty defense-first players that are ready to contribute immediately in the league (see Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Elfrid Payton, etc.). KrisP is skilled but he is none of the other things that one expects of a Magic player. Knowing that, I don't think they pick Porzingis and go with the player they went with on draft night: Mario Hezonja.

The Kings are dumb and dysfunction, so I think they'd still pick Stein aka the best bust candidate of the draft. George Karl is also old school and seems to prefer American players, so I doubt the Kings would add yet another player that Karl can have a beef with.

The Nuggets probably would've taken Kristaps at this point. They play an uptempo system, which is something Kristaps would flourish in. They also have an affinity for European players, so it's difficult for me to see him falling past here (though if he did, man, what a long drop he'd be on because the Pistons, Hornets and Heat definitely wouldn't take him). With all signs pointing to the Nuggets taking him, I'd then try to figure out what it is that they'd want in a trade. And the reality is, that they wanted Mudiay more than anyone not in the top 3. He's a far safer pick, has more star potential and plays a position that is absolutely pivotal to being a good team. They've clearly soured on Lawson, which had only helped to make Mudiay all the more appealing. Because of this, I would've looked to take Mudiay at 4, then traded him, cash and Calderon to the Nuggets for their Afflalo trade exception and the 7th.

NardDogNation
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6/26/2015  11:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2015  11:53 AM
^^^^ People constantly tout upside as though it's something that is tangible but the reality is that it can hold no real value because value can be quantified. By comparison, Danilo was the best upside player at 6 in the 2008 draft and look how we botched the selection. They were saying the same goofy,abstract things about him that they are about KrisP. And what happened? We reached on a player that no one else in Tier 2 of the lottery wanted and missed out on the better player, with better value in Brook Lopez.

No, he didn't fit our system but like in poker, you don't play your hand, you play the next man's. We knew the Nets wanted Lopez and we knew Danilo would be available at that pick. The proper move for us should've been to trade down and acquire another asset, in this case the 21st pick used to select Ryan Anderson.

This draft was no different. There is nothing wrong with walking away with Kristaps. There is something majorly wrong with walking away with him as a reach, which he was at 4. If we goofed the trade down and he got picked sooner, then so be it. There were far too many capable players available to let that deter us. Would anyone lament walking away from this draft with Frank Kaminsky, no Jose Calderon and assets?

That being said, I hope things work out though they never do for us. And yet, we keep making the same type of dumb mistakes over and over and over again. And ironically enough, there never seems to be a shortage of people defending the transaction until it inevitably becomes a bust. Then, everyone seems to have a different opinion about how they felt about the move when it happened, lol.

NardDogNation
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6/26/2015  12:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2015  12:13 PM
Serious questions to the Krisanity fans: what is it that Kristaps does well? What is it that he currently does that we can look forward to him doing when he matures? What can he hang his hat on?

I ask because like so many busts of yesteryear (especially when it comes to foreigners), there is nothing distinct about his game other than it comes in a 7"2' mobile (not athletic) frame. And obviously, this common thread is troubling to me.

I know that even if Okafor does not become a superstar or even a star, he can give me 16ppg as a low post scorer. I know that if Towns never develops, I know that he is physically imposing enough to be an elite rim protector/rebounder and will space the floor for my guards to penetrate. I know that if Russell never works on his game, he'll still be a deft shooter because he has a large enough sample size demonstrating that.

What about KrisP? What can he be as a role player?

Vmart
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6/26/2015  12:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2015  12:02 PM
I give the Knicks B+. I wanted Mudiay but getting Grant somewhat off sets that. KP if he wasn't Euro I would have given him a higher grade but the Euro bust factor is high and he has to prove the naysayers like me wrong, which should be easy since his skill set is strong. As for Hernangomez can't really judge him but it's a typical second round type pick.

My question is do the Knicks bring back Bargs? I wanted him back but now that we have gone Euro I want to keep him out. I do not want his influence around KP or any Euro.

With that said Phil has now drafted 4 Euro players in his drafts.

Moonangie
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6/26/2015  12:08 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.

I second that, BRIGGS. Even though I agree that Holfresh is a whiny brat.

As for draft grade, I'd say B+. I was surprised by the Zinger pick, but willing to trust Phil's instincts. Hoping for Dirk 2.0. Without the Grant trade, I would have given a flat "C" grade. But that was a GREAT move and saved the night.

Moonangie
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6/26/2015  12:10 PM
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
WAKEUPKNICKS2015 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:B.

Love the grant trade...what a steal

Prozingis has talent but he is extremely risky at 4. If phil doesnt hit on this pick its gonna hurt especially since we have no picks next year

Bro we aren't a 25 win team..

You whine more than a little ****ing baby without its binky. Why don't you start up another thread so you can complain some more about ****. Fucking female.

Why dont you knock it off Holfresh has been here a LONG time. If he feels he needs to btch let him get it out of his system, Its just a message board. Accept that there are some people who may be disappointed its been a long time. You came on just a few days ago just like a few new guys who just listed up in 2014 who have been obnoxious and personal to others. I would say respect the terms of service and the decorum if you dont mind.

Shut up Briggs. You've been wrong about everything that's come out your mouth.

Something tells me this ID is really one of the previously booted snarky a-holes. Martin will reach his limit on this one soon enough.

draft grade

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