fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

wait until the draft WCS and you got to hope that he "maybe" has an offense based on workout videos lol

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

martin wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

Would love to be able to trade the #4 pick knowing Knicks could come out with Winslow and a big like WCS. I understand the want to be able to draft a super upside guy like Kristaps but coming away with a super solid 2-way player in Winslow and a big and on a shorter timeline path to building a team ala Detriot bad boys - defense and team play - would be ideal for me.

WCS
Melo
Carroll
Winslow
Galloway

Young, fast, interchangeable, defensive team (outside of the obvious). I'd take on a bad contract to be able to get Winslow and WCS.

where do i sign up? that team will get after the opposition defensively and it give the proper floor spacing offensively to allow melo to thrive. i cant see winslow falling lower sacramento at 6, so we'd have to do some finagling, but like you said, if we take on a bad contract, it's definitely possible. i'd even throw monroe in on that team. i dont want to pay him the money, but pairing him with stein would work pretty well. monroe, might very well be the lamar odom-esque pf we're looking for in the triangle.

martin wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

Would love to be able to trade the #4 pick knowing Knicks could come out with Winslow and a big like WCS. I understand the want to be able to draft a super upside guy like Kristaps but coming away with a super solid 2-way player in Winslow and a big and on a shorter timeline path to building a team ala Detriot bad boys - defense and team play - would be ideal for me.

WCS
Melo
Carroll
Winslow
Galloway

Young, fast, interchangeable, defensive team (outside of the obvious). I'd take on a bad contract to be able to get Winslow and WCS.

I would sign up for this also BUT come on how??? This is a dream. Not possible

martin wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

martin wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

Would love to be able to trade the #4 pick knowing Knicks could come out with Winslow and a big like WCS. I understand the want to be able to draft a super upside guy like Kristaps but coming away with a super solid 2-way player in Winslow and a big and on a shorter timeline path to building a team ala Detriot bad boys - defense and team play - would be ideal for me.

WCS
Melo
Carroll
Winslow
Galloway

Young, fast, interchangeable, defensive team (outside of the obvious). I'd take on a bad contract to be able to get Winslow and WCS.

I would sign up for this also BUT come on how??? This is a dream. Not possible

yeah

if the #6 & #7 trade for #4 could happen ..... it would be so amazing

martin wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

Would love to be able to trade the #4 pick knowing Knicks could come out with Winslow and a big like WCS. I understand the want to be able to draft a super upside guy like Kristaps but coming away with a super solid 2-way player in Winslow and a big and on a shorter timeline path to building a team ala Detriot bad boys - defense and team play - would be ideal for me.

WCS
Melo
Carroll
Winslow
Galloway

Young, fast, interchangeable, defensive team (outside of the obvious). I'd take on a bad contract to be able to get Winslow and WCS.

Martin --you really think we'd start a team with 2 rookies and a kid who played 60 games? I'm not sure about that. I can see unit 2 having 2 rookies but not unit 1. No matter what any highlight s say--those are two players--one had 2 points and 5 rebounds in his last college game and the other a 6-5 guard with an unknown jumpshot who played 4 in college.

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Would you have drafted Butler?

I kind of had the same reaction.

But also.... Comparing Shumpert and Winslow is way off IMHO. While defensively both are/were promising coming out of college, Winslow is far better offensively than Shumpert ever was and it's clear his BBQ IQ is much higher. For all his athleticism, Shumpert is just not a smart player. He is an athletic player and puts that to use defensively but constantly makes mistakes. And it seems pretty clear that he will NEVER be able to put it together offensively. Clearly Winslow has a lot to prove, but even on a team with what was purported to be the best basketball player in the nation, many regarded Winslow as the team leader and best player on team.

great post, fully agree... especially about the shumpert stuff. shumpert is only athletic and that helps him defensively, but offensively he has never improved since i watched him in college. some guys just cant take it to that next level and i think he's one of them.

i was listening to winslow on with francesa today and i'll tell you one thing, you couldn't have listened to that interview and not liked the kid. he sounds like he not only has bball iq, but just iq in general. after watching winslow at duke he looks like he could develop into a butler type player, they are pretty much carbon-copies coming out college. i wouldn't be mad if we drafted winslow, i just think there are better prospects, but i think he'll come into the league ready and willing to learn and that's more than you can say for most.

Would love to be able to trade the #4 pick knowing Knicks could come out with Winslow and a big like WCS. I understand the want to be able to draft a super upside guy like Kristaps but coming away with a super solid 2-way player in Winslow and a big and on a shorter timeline path to building a team ala Detriot bad boys - defense and team play - would be ideal for me.

WCS
Melo
Carroll
Winslow
Galloway

Young, fast, interchangeable, defensive team (outside of the obvious). I'd take on a bad contract to be able to get Winslow and WCS.

Martin --you really think we'd start a team with 2 rookies and a kid who played 60 games? I'm not sure about that. I can see unit 2 having 2 rookies but not unit 1. No matter what any highlight s say--those are two players--one had 2 points and 5 rebounds in his last college game and the other a 6-5 guard with an unknown jumpshot who played 4 in college.

I'm not one to focus on a 1 game snapshot, otherwise you can also bring up the presumptive #1 draft pick's game against West Virginia where Towns had 1 point, 2 rebounds and only played 13 minutes. Or how about Okafor only having 3 rebounds in a title match?

If WCS isn't the defensive player or potential defensive player his athletic potential is showing, then I'll take that as an argument. I don't watch ANY college bball, so I am constantly asking what this guy's potential is. I don't mind a different type of player with the defensive potential of Ben Wallace on my team - the scouting reports say PnR stopper with perimeter defensive aptitude, that's incredible for a 7 footer. His lateral quickness is off the charts, ie incredible weak side potential defender. His FT shooting has gone up every year, so is he inept offensively or was he underused and overshadowed by this coaches system and focus/use with other players? Can he be a taller, faster, offensively better Ben Wallace?

Winslow's jumpshot is slow but is it unknown? About 1/3 of his shots were from college 3pt land and he hit 42% of them. As a freshman. Underdeveloped? Sure. Broken? Don't know.

And yes I'd start 2 rookies with Gallo. All team players who would play their role. Gallo, Winslow have big time character.

Well WCS had more than a 1 game snapshot of poor games in his career--it was littered with them. I hear that he is up to 250 but it seems almost implausible given that he was 240 6 weeks ago. But if we do play Stein at 5 that kind of takes away from what his strengths are right? Hed guard 5 and his lateral speed would be somewhat wasted? Hes a guy "in games" not practice--but games that has been severely inconsistent on the offensive side. He tends to zone out and also panics a tad with the ball in his hands--doesnt have a great feel for the game on that side.

Winslow is a nice prospect but 4 is awfully high for him. At the end of the day he was an undersized 4 who had mismatches. I dont see walking out with 2 key spots with raw offensive players in unit 1.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Shump is the downside and Jimmy Butler is the upside. Every option available to us has a bad downside. This is not unique to Winslow. We can at least say Winslow played well in his first year of college, though. Some of the guys people are talking about taking have never even played well outside of a few workouts.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Am I the only one who would be disappointed if we drafted a sf in Winslow he seems like a player we just got rid of for his lack of offensive production in brick city shump ... If Russell is gone kristap has to be the pick a sharp shooting 4 that will evolve into a starting 5 in a few years possibly a super star ... And from film of kristap and the way the nba is played now with speed and finesse kristap fits the bill ... Winslow would be a lock down defender in 95 when you could still use the hand check... Now a days in this no hand check nba I don't think a lockdown defender exist in the nba ... This is a sharpshooter or get to the ft line type of league now... Russell or kristap

Shump is the downside and Jimmy Butler is the upside. Every option available to us has a bad downside. This is not unique to Winslow. We can at least say Winslow played well in his first year of college, though. Some of the guys people are talking about taking have never even played well outside of a few workouts.

Who are the guys being talked about that have never played well outside of workouts?

Well this will get into a repetitive debate pretty fast but I'd at least put Porzingis and WCS in that category. "Played well" might be harsh but I should say "performed like a high NBA lottery pick"

how do you know if porzingis hasn't played well if you've never watched him? and don't give me watching youtube highlights as a reason. stein, i agree with though.