StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil fits better as a coach he is obviously one of the best ever. As a GM he doesnt have that same skill at least yet, he is very inexperienced. To be honest his best move has probably been the prigioni trade lol. Im not saying he wont get better but i understand why some question his GM abilities and want him to coach instead

I get why people have doubts, but they seem to forget the alternative wasn't some 'young up and coming' GM of their dreams, the alternative was Dolan. Phil was the only person Dolan would take a back seat to (and even then he's been wanting to wade in), before he agreed to take over essentially Dolan was the president and GM.

wargames wrote:

callmened wrote:
2. other coaches and teams HATE phil! like ABHOR the dude. they want to stick it to him by not making deals with him

10. dont be surprise if they over pay - overrated and washed up vets on one yr deals.

again, pretty much all obvious stuff that we all knew. i guess the only thing i learned was i never realized how much other teams HATE phil. they think he's a ****y bastard and they want pay back by basically blacklisting him and the knicks. With that said, ny is always a candidate because agents LOVE the money making opportunities in manhattan. the knicks are still considered a laughing stock. phil was supposed to give them some credibility but the losing record didnt help at all.

thats all i got for now; hope that helps

Can you name some specific teams that hate Phil?

Phil rubs people up the wrong way, and the league is petty. However, at the end of the day if a GM feels they would benefit from a trade, they'll do it regardless of how they feel about him- most teams hate Hinkie but they still give him first round picks and dump salary on him. We hated Morey but we still made deals with him.

TripleThreat wrote:

callmened wrote:. in regards to sources...

If it was me, and it's not me, I would edit out the specific names and circumstances of your sources and ask anyone who has replied with your text in quotes to do the same. There are a lot of just plain irresponsible people out there and sadly here and the last thing you need is someone using what you said as a basis of a quote or an poorly constructed unethical blog post ( Will I have to name names here?) that brings negative light to someone you know.

As someone who is a guest on their board, I loathe to just say something like, this is what Andrew or Martin ( whomever they are) should do, but this is one of those cases where if someone has a clean rep here and is trying to share, having people point their fingers at them and call them a liar and ask them to justify themselves is a good way to NEVER have anyone with any Knicks information to come forward. That doesn't help the site and it doesn't help the community at large.

This "prove to me you aren't a liar" business is bad business. It's going to curb posting, participation and devalue the entire site. There are lots of reasons why accurate information becomes less accurate over time, esp in pro sports. An owner might change their mind about something. A GM might be marching orders at the last minute. The league itself might intervene on some matter.

I'd rather hear someone who was right 10 percent of the time with a clean board rep than hear zero out of zero all the time.

Disagree if you want, but calling someone a liar is only trolling for a fight. I've observed callmened over time, I don't always agree with him, but he doesn't deserve this.

Good points. Yeah I wasn't making this up from thin air. But you're right I didn't want to get into any specifics of who told me what but I listed some sources. Again there wasn't any earth shattering info that we've never heard of before. But I just thought this site would appreciate it as hard core knicks fans

In regards to "UK board rep" (that's what I'll call it), I dont know how to handle that or even judge that. I guess if someone shows they're unbiased. Regardless people can choose to do what they want with this info. I'm not sure if posts need editing but I'm no admin

Nalod wrote:

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. teams deal to make their teams better. Stick it to phil? Half the GM's were not around long enough hate phil! Why would players hate playing for Fish?

2. Gotta name sources. this "Insider" stuff makes for nothing. Sorry, don't respect either of the "insider stuff"

3. A team will deal with knicks if it helps them. Likewise we would do the same.

1. i agree. teams will do whatever they can to make their teams better. but they will try to black ball phil first. with fisher, hes a nice guy but he has to prove to players that he can win first

2. in regards to sources, one of my good friends is moke hamilton. hes a beat reporter on SNY. he also does podcasts on the knicks if youre interested. he told me about some of these issues. another friend of mine is donte greene. i dont know if any of you remember him. He was a stretch 4 who entered the league a lil to early in my opinion. he tells me about the politics of coaching and player opportunities. i hope to see him in vegas this summer and i hope he gets another shot at the NBA. another friend is a lawyer who actually works for steve mills in the CHASE bldg at MSG. i cant give his name because he'd kill me but i hear from him too. i wont consider myself close to the Harris' family but thru different family connections, I know Toby's father and have talked to him a couple times (INTENSE). Lastly, i have met a couple sports agents for dinner here in NYC (only because my fiance is a lawyer as well) and we talk about the NFL (mostly) and the NBA. they tell me how THEY earn their living and a lot of deals are made in "briefcases" (lol). unfortunately, shoe companies run alot of the NBA. the knicks will ALWAYS be a destination simply because of marketing opportunities

3. yes that makes sense but what i learned is theres a lot of animosity towards phil and therefore the knicks

again, i was just trying to share some info since we're all fans. dont shoot the messenger. lol. hope that clarifies things

Thank you for that, sometimes guys have self illusions of "Knowing" things and you certainly made a good case. I hate that Phil is not generally liked but it at least makes sense now why Dolan is attracted to him. I wish that was a compliment. I agree Fish has to earn some respect which I hope happens. I wish some of these shoe deal guys would start playing in NY!!!

Perhaps our greatest hope is cap space and triangle players can came here and thrive!!!

BTW, whats the opinion about Steve Mills? Does his underlings respect him? If he is making the calls to other GM's is he received well by them? Phil alluded to him being "here a while", which sounds like 4 years left will be the longest he is here, but that Mills was the future and he was doing the calling around the league.

Thanks!

All my friend says is that mills is the NICEST guy in the world. Like its impossible to dislike the guy. In terms of basketball he's smart enough to hire ALOT of player personnel people who are young energetic and into analytics. He and Phil are simply the figure heads but other folks behind the scenes do the main work. They simply sign off.

Also he says that Dolan is pretty cool too. Even though the staff collectively shook their heads with hiring isiah...he's a pretty cool guy. Every month or so they hv like knicks memoribillia give away day. My dude has some nice vintage pictures of memories.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Before Phil ever showed up there were teams that hated the Knicks and didn't want to help us. This is nothing new. There are enough Teams that just do what is in their own best interests for Phil to deal with.

The phone will ring regardless of Phil's popularity. There certainly were enough moves made so far. Now Phil and his team have something to work with for a change. This is the strongest hand any Knicks GM has had to make deals in a very long time.

Fish gets blasted for coaching the team to wins late in the year but you can't then suggest he has no influence on his players. They were clearly still playing hard for him even after all that losing. He's a good young coach. He'll only get better.

The draft will impact FA targets to some degree. It depends on who falls and if a deal is made. Nothing is guaranteed at this point. Knicks might make a predraft deal for all we know.

i dont necessarily agree that people hated the Knicks. Now they may have thought we are poorly run which we have been. I think you are putting too much faith in phils popularity. Maybe if he was coaching there might be more to that but i dont think free agents are salvating to get here just because phil is GM.

I think during the Riley n JVG ERA the team was not loved ball all. Certainly Isiah had his enemies.

I didn't say anything about Phil being popular. I only mentioned that teams do what is in their best interests. They'll call the Knicks if a deal benefits them. This summer the Knicks will be in a better position to make deals. Phil won't be a hindrance.

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. teams deal to make their teams better. Stick it to phil? Half the GM's were not around long enough hate phil! Why would players hate playing for Fish?

2. Gotta name sources. this "Insider" stuff makes for nothing. Sorry, don't respect either of the "insider stuff"

3. A team will deal with knicks if it helps them. Likewise we would do the same.

1. i agree. teams will do whatever they can to make their teams better. but they will try to black ball phil first. with fisher, hes a nice guy but he has to prove to players that he can win first

2. in regards to sources, one of my good friends is moke hamilton. hes a beat reporter on SNY. he also does podcasts on the knicks if youre interested. he told me about some of these issues. another friend of mine is donte greene. i dont know if any of you remember him. He was a stretch 4 who entered the league a lil to early in my opinion. he tells me about the politics of coaching and player opportunities. i hope to see him in vegas this summer and i hope he gets another shot at the NBA. another friend is a lawyer who actually works for steve mills in the CHASE bldg at MSG. i cant give his name because he'd kill me but i hear from him too. i wont consider myself close to the Harris' family but thru different family connections, I know Toby's father and have talked to him a couple times (INTENSE). Lastly, i have met a couple sports agents for dinner here in NYC (only because my fiance is a lawyer as well) and we talk about the NFL (mostly) and the NBA. they tell me how THEY earn their living and a lot of deals are made in "briefcases" (lol). unfortunately, shoe companies run alot of the NBA. the knicks will ALWAYS be a destination simply because of marketing opportunities

3. yes that makes sense but what i learned is theres a lot of animosity towards phil and therefore the knicks

again, i was just trying to share some info since we're all fans. dont shoot the messenger. lol. hope that clarifies things

Thank you for that, sometimes guys have self illusions of "Knowing" things and you certainly made a good case. I hate that Phil is not generally liked but it at least makes sense now why Dolan is attracted to him. I wish that was a compliment. I agree Fish has to earn some respect which I hope happens. I wish some of these shoe deal guys would start playing in NY!!!

Perhaps our greatest hope is cap space and triangle players can came here and thrive!!!

BTW, whats the opinion about Steve Mills? Does his underlings respect him? If he is making the calls to other GM's is he received well by them? Phil alluded to him being "here a while", which sounds like 4 years left will be the longest he is here, but that Mills was the future and he was doing the calling around the league.

Thanks!

All my friend says is that mills is the NICEST guy in the world. Like its impossible to dislike the guy. In terms of basketball he's smart enough to hire ALOT of player personnel people who are young energetic and into analytics. He and Phil are simply the figure heads but other folks behind the scenes do the main work. They simply sign off.

Also he says that Dolan is pretty cool too. Even though the staff collectively shook their heads with hiring isiah...he's a pretty cool guy. Every month or so they hv like knicks memoribillia give away day. My dude has some nice vintage pictures of memories.

It seems to me that Mills is straight as an arrow and working with an old hippy in Jackson, so its an odd couple with Jackson probably blowing Mills' mind on occasion and Mills learning a lot from Phil. And I suspect Phil is perfectly comfortable deferring the administrivia to Mills.

And as much as Dolan is villified and demonized I suspect he is a great owner whose desire to win compromises the better judgement of others. Phil allows him to chill. But Dolan is a great friend to Isiah, Stoudamire and many others - loyal. It's a good thing. And in Phil's interview he mentions that. Phil doesn't tell Dolan who to hire for the Liberty and Dolan keeps his word of letting Phil run the Knicks.

And Dolan has a deep basketball staff - more like 2 or 3 great former GMs. This idea that Phil is in the dark is absolute nonsense.

tj23 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:This is awesome. TJ you have to share some stuff this august. Really excited that guys are sharing their connections. I have one connection. A friend of mine is a life long friend of Jason Kidd's. It was nice when he was on the KNicks. Not sure if he gets insider bucks stuff but if I hear it I will share it if I can.

To be completely honest I haven't talked much with my sources for a couple years so I might not even get a response lol. I probably sound like a complete phony. But I used to have some insider info through the Raiders and Chargers organizations or people who worked with them. Plus One of my friends is cousins with Trevor Ariza, my former co-worker is cousins with Earl Clark, my best friend got to meet Nets CEO Brett Yormark after we went to a Nets game back in 09 and he got cursed out for wearing a bag on his head lolol. I've balled with Knowshon Moreno right before he went to Georgia. A kid I went to HIgh school with got drafted by the Pats but cut(Kade Weston). I'm lucky I guess lol

I also have a long resume of knowing and playing against some nba / nfl players. And this gym ive been going to over the last 4 yrs Life Time Fitness attracts all the pro players from all sports. One of the best gyms you could ever attend. If your in MD i got some free passes....u can also go online. I also live by the casino were i see a lot of local players....but i never thought about getting inside info. I just figured nobody knows anything.....they just have better guesses than us. But nothing is solid until the season starts.....you got trades on top of trades......its all about having different trade or player movement strategies in place for those last minute decisions.

tj23 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

tj23 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:This is awesome. TJ you have to share some stuff this august. Really excited that guys are sharing their connections. I have one connection. A friend of mine is a life long friend of Jason Kidd's. It was nice when he was on the KNicks. Not sure if he gets insider bucks stuff but if I hear it I will share it if I can.

To be completely honest I haven't talked much with my sources for a couple years so I might not even get a response lol. I probably sound like a complete phony. But I used to have some insider info through the Raiders and Chargers organizations or people who worked with them. Plus One of my friends is cousins with Trevor Ariza, my former co-worker is cousins with Earl Clark, my best friend got to meet Nets CEO Brett Yormark after we went to a Nets game back in 09 and he got cursed out for wearing a bag on his head lolol. I've balled with Knowshon Moreno right before he went to Georgia. A kid I went to HIgh school with got drafted by the Pats but cut(Kade Weston). I'm lucky I guess lol

I also have a long resume of knowing and playing against some nba / nfl players. And this gym ive been going to over the last 4 yrs Life Time Fitness attracts all the pro players from all sports. One of the best gyms you could ever attend. If your in MD i got some free passes....u can also go online. I also live by the casino were i see a lot of local players....but i never thought about getting inside info. I just figured nobody knows anything.....they just have better guesses than us. But nothing is solid until the season starts.....you got trades on top of trades......its all about having different trade or player movement strategies in place for those last minute decisions.

That's awesome. Yeah for the most part I figure it's all hearsay with players. Still interesting to hear though

- from the players its hear say but also more feedback (especially regarding reputations of other players and coaches). d. fisher seems like a great great guy but folks want to see if he can actually WIN first at this level (makes sense)

- from the agents, i think they know more of whats going on - especially with the cap, advertising, trades, draft etc. seems like phil jackson is considered smug but at least he has his minions doing the dirty work for him (makes sense, not surprising)

callmened wrote:some interesting (yet obvious) info from some insiders i know in the NBA (former players, family of players, agents, reporters). id thought id share...

1. free agents wont take playing for the knicks seriously unless phil coaches
2. other coaches and teams HATE phil! like ABHOR the dude. they want to stick it to him by not making deals with him
3. players LOVE derek fisher but they dont want to play for coach fisher
4. knicks are pretty much a lock to get monroe - its an agent thing.
5. speaking of agents, they and shoe companies pretty much dictate player movement
6. no one...i mean NO ONE knows who the knicks will draft.
7. toby wants out of orlando but not up to him
8. melo has big big plans - for marketing his brand
9. Kevin Love's gf lives in NYC - dont try to read any signs though
10. dont be surprise if they over pay - overrated and washed up vets on one yr deals.

again, pretty much all obvious stuff that we all knew. i guess the only thing i learned was i never realized how much other teams HATE phil. they think he's a ****y bastard and they want pay back by basically blacklisting him and the knicks. With that said, ny is always a candidate because agents LOVE the money making opportunities in manhattan. the knicks are still considered a laughing stock. phil was supposed to give them some credibility but the losing record didnt help at all.

thats all i got for now; hope that helps

interesting..

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:

callmened wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. teams deal to make their teams better. Stick it to phil? Half the GM's were not around long enough hate phil! Why would players hate playing for Fish?

2. Gotta name sources. this "Insider" stuff makes for nothing. Sorry, don't respect either of the "insider stuff"

3. A team will deal with knicks if it helps them. Likewise we would do the same.

1. i agree. teams will do whatever they can to make their teams better. but they will try to black ball phil first. with fisher, hes a nice guy but he has to prove to players that he can win first

2. in regards to sources, one of my good friends is moke hamilton. hes a beat reporter on SNY. he also does podcasts on the knicks if youre interested. he told me about some of these issues. another friend of mine is donte greene. i dont know if any of you remember him. He was a stretch 4 who entered the league a lil to early in my opinion. he tells me about the politics of coaching and player opportunities. i hope to see him in vegas this summer and i hope he gets another shot at the NBA. another friend is a lawyer who actually works for steve mills in the CHASE bldg at MSG. i cant give his name because he'd kill me but i hear from him too. i wont consider myself close to the Harris' family but thru different family connections, I know Toby's father and have talked to him a couple times (INTENSE). Lastly, i have met a couple sports agents for dinner here in NYC (only because my fiance is a lawyer as well) and we talk about the NFL (mostly) and the NBA. they tell me how THEY earn their living and a lot of deals are made in "briefcases" (lol). unfortunately, shoe companies run alot of the NBA. the knicks will ALWAYS be a destination simply because of marketing opportunities

3. yes that makes sense but what i learned is theres a lot of animosity towards phil and therefore the knicks

again, i was just trying to share some info since we're all fans. dont shoot the messenger. lol. hope that clarifies things

Thank you for that, sometimes guys have self illusions of "Knowing" things and you certainly made a good case. I hate that Phil is not generally liked but it at least makes sense now why Dolan is attracted to him. I wish that was a compliment. I agree Fish has to earn some respect which I hope happens. I wish some of these shoe deal guys would start playing in NY!!!

Perhaps our greatest hope is cap space and triangle players can came here and thrive!!!

BTW, whats the opinion about Steve Mills? Does his underlings respect him? If he is making the calls to other GM's is he received well by them? Phil alluded to him being "here a while", which sounds like 4 years left will be the longest he is here, but that Mills was the future and he was doing the calling around the league.

Thanks!

All my friend says is that mills is the NICEST guy in the world. Like its impossible to dislike the guy. In terms of basketball he's smart enough to hire ALOT of player personnel people who are young energetic and into analytics. He and Phil are simply the figure heads but other folks behind the scenes do the main work. They simply sign off.

Also he says that Dolan is pretty cool too. Even though the staff collectively shook their heads with hiring isiah...he's a pretty cool guy. Every month or so they hv like knicks memoribillia give away day. My dude has some nice vintage pictures of memories.

Good to hear that they are hiring some guys who people around here might like in terms of modern game and player analysis.

Some around here enjoyed making Phil seem totally out of touch with the metrics crowd.

Wonder what his analytics people tell him about the Triangle, though, since this seems to be a bone of contention these days?