crzymdups wrote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238240/Lou-Williams-Expected-Free-Agent-Interest-Gives-Raptors-Competition

Lou Williams is expected to receive strong interest from teams that include the Sacramento Kings, Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Brooklyn Nets, providing a clear competition for the Toronto Raptors to retain the NBA’s reigning Sixth Man of the Year, league sources told RealGM.

The Raptors and Williams have expressed a mutual interest, and there will be a window early in free agency for Toronto to finalize an agreement that’s viable for the 6-foot-2 guard.

As one of the most potent scorers on the market, Williams could scan league-wide possibilities of a three-year deal in the range of $27 million or four years for $35 million.

For the season, Williams scored a career-best 15.5 points per game while averaging 25.2 minutes — a magnificent resurgence as a player after tearing his ACL in 2013.

Williams, 28, has played 10 NBA seasons with the Philadelphia 76ers, Atlanta Hawks and Raptors. He has career averages of 11.9 points, 2.9 assists and two rebounds.

Jared Zwerling: Chatted w/ Amar’e Stoudemire today. For free agency, high on Dallas return. Even Phoenix. And won’t be opposed to NY return. Loves Triangle.

TripleThreat wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
Agreed. The 30th pick is the last pick of the first round and has a guaranteed salary attached.At thirty you are rolling the dice in a big way. The Knicks are far better off buying a second-rounder - same risk, no obligations, same quality players.

GS will not find buyers for that contract at all.

OTOH, The Jr Smith trade exception for Speights and #30 and 2017 GS first-rounder is worth considering.

Miami is the team to watch. They desperately need cap space to resign Wade and then sign Dragic.

A number of opportunities exist for the Knicks here. They can sign Dragic to a Max contract that Miami would have to match putting their payroll into the Stratosphere.

OTOH (if its obvious Dragic is not interested), the Knicks could take a chance on moving a trade exception for McRoberts and #10 giving Miami some breathing room. Picking at 4 and 10 offers a wide variety of possibilities, none obviously bad.

Sorry, you're wrong.

I'm supposed to be politically correct and say I disagree and everyone has a different opinion on things, but sorry, you are so far off into the path of wrong, that there is nothing else to point out except you are wrong.

It's true that a very late first rounder forces the drafting team to pay at least two years of guaranteed money based on slotting compared to second rounder, whom is guaranteed nothing if the drafting team wants -snip- However teams do not typically sell off high 2nd rounders, where there are actually practical targets to gun for in terms of valuable prospects who have fallen, most of the selling off happens in the latter stages of Round 2, when there is nothing left but the dregs and potential Euro Stashes and future D League stashes and rights grabs for potential trades. We are still talking a multi tier drop off in talent so the idea of "same quality" is pretty much shot. Dropping one late tier talent, you'd have an argument, maybe two tiers would be pushing it, but still feasible, but you are talking 4-7 tiers when someone will practically sell a 2nd round pick to the Knicks. The "risk" factor also works both ways. First rounders get guaranteed money, sure, but also there is more room for future team control. KJ Daniels is a good example of how a 2nd rounder can use his own leverage to at least test to open market, because he is not encumbered by the vested rights of a team drafting him in the first round.

Given the provisions of the last CBA, teams have more cap flexibility than ever.

For the Knicks to get a trade with Golden State to help the Warriors relieve their future tax burden, the Knicks must provide a trade offer in a pragmatic sense that is THE BEST VARIABLE OPTION OUT OF ALL POSSIBLE DEFENSIBLE TRADE OPTIONS CONSIDERING ALL TEAMS IN THE NBA.

If the Knicks were in the Warriors position, entirely reverse roster and cap situation and personnel, would you accept a trade offer of a single trade exception for two first rounders and Speights? Also the Warriors already traded their 2017 first to Utah in the multi team Iggy deal.

If you were Goran Dragic, would you sign for what would be less money and less years in what will likely be your last major NBA contract, to risk playing for the least talented team in the league, with an established horrible owner, with a GM where your contact might outlive your GM ( not outlive his contract, but literally outlive him period), where you stand a good chance of having Zeke as your next GM in place, playing along side a selfish no defense shotjacker who can't move well off the ball?

Would you accept a trade offer asking for your 10th pick and McRoberts with the belief that you need cap space and THAT IS THE BEST OVERALL OPTION OUT OF ALL OPTIONS POSSIBLE FOR TRADE IN THE ENTIRE NBA?

The basis of all trade rape is

A) Making offers you wouldn't take yourself if the situations were reversed
B) Require the other front office to have no sense of basic self preservation and competence ( That's like finding an ugly girl and screaming at her that she also has zero personality and how is that entirely possible )
C) Take no context that there is an entire league of other trade possibilities and your trade offer must be the practical and defensible one that offers the most upside to the non Knicks team out of the list
D) Ignoring that no practical trade in modern pro sports happens if it will draw massive backlash from the ownership, sports media and the entire fanbase to a groundswell that creates a tipping point for the non Knicks franchise

In the modern era, trade exceptions often go unused and expire for very specific reasons. If what you suggested was feasible, teams would be using them all the time, but they don't.

I was on a farm once as a kid, visiting a friend, along with adults who were visiting their adult friends. Never seen a farm before that. I saw a horse mount another horse. Mating and such. The mounter had an easier time, at least from this time, because it didn't look like the mountee was all that resistant.

If you want the Knicks to garner real assets for the future, they aren't just going to walk up and mount up on the back of another team and work them like a two dollar whore near closing time. Sorry, the practical market forces in the NBA just don't work that way.

I don't understand the animus of your reply at all. Nor are you particularly compelling in your arguments that I am "wrong".

My whole point is that taking on David Lee's $15M cap space killing contract for the rights to #30 (another $2M or so hit) makes no sense whatsoever.

You will also find that the so-called drop-off in talent starts at #10 where picks are faaaaar less likely to stick around for more than a year or two. In fact, a chronic lament on this and every Knick board is that we drafted so-and-so and missed out on a guy putting up big numbers in Oshkosh - if only, if only.

Nor did I ever suggest pursuing a late second-rounder that's just pointless. What I did suggest is that IFF (if and only if) the Knicks wanted a late first-rounder, rather than #30 they would be far better off making a trade for 31-40. Minny and Philadelphia both have two picks in that range.

As for, "Given the provisions of the last CBA, teams have more cap flexibility than ever." - truthy sounding. But teams swimming in fiscal commitments won't be trading for David Lee and getting a pick too. They'll be attempting to unload their own David Lees and GS is looking for cap relief not a swap of fiscal albatrosses. Your truth seems to be that David Lee is a prize that -gasp- the whole NBA is competing for! Let me re-explain the scenario, David Lee is a bench player at best making $15M a year. FOR PICK #30! The return will have to be much higher than that.

Actually, trade exceptions ARE used all the time otherwise every team wouldn't have four or five sitting around. Most teams choose to use them as cap relief and not for players but so what? THEY CAN BE USED. Nothing "wrong" with that.

And yes, if I were a GM who responsibly managed a team's money I *would* trade for cap relief because that's where true flexibility is. As long as I get what I need the other guy doesn't have to be short-changed. Value for value isn't the same as talent for talent.

As for the horrible owner nonsense and the Isiah red herring and Phil leaving myth and JR Smith is evil rhetoric - put on your big boy pants - life ain't fair. These kinds of fictions require psychiatric counseling. Dolan is trying to win, Isiah was innocent and deserves a second chance, Phil wants to be here, and JR is a basketball player not a priest. BFD.

You were on the farm too long, IMO.

fwk00 wrote:

You will also find that the so-called drop-off in talent starts at #10 where picks are faaaaar less likely to stick around for more than a year or two. In fact, a chronic lament on this and every Knick board is that we drafted so-and-so and missed out on a guy putting up big numbers in Oshkosh - if only, if only.

So just who is this mysterious Wisconsin kid coming out of Oshkosh and why hasn't Briggs sniffed him out yet

Why you holding out on us?

CrushAlot wrote:

Jared Zwerling: Chatted w/ Amar’e Stoudemire today. For free agency, high on Dallas return. Even Phoenix. And won’t be opposed to NY return. Loves Triangle.

http://hoopshype.com/rumors/

WaltLongmire wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

You will also find that the so-called drop-off in talent starts at #10 where picks are faaaaar less likely to stick around for more than a year or two. In fact, a chronic lament on this and every Knick board is that we drafted so-and-so and missed out on a guy putting up big numbers in Oshkosh - if only, if only.

So just who is this mysterious Wisconsin kid coming out of Oshkosh and why hasn't Briggs sniffed him out yet

Why you holding out on us?

Briggs.

Briggs, the new thread factory? The finder of all players finer than ours. I think the minute I mentioned OshKosh he was racing Chad Ford to the very court I mentioned where all players have potential and upside so high you can't even see it with ESPN-ovision. Yes, Virginia there is such a place and it happens shortly after the draft when the pigmies they call the Itoldyasoes come out of their gaming caves to wag their fingers at the basketball bureaucrats in the skyscrapers.

It won't be long before the three Stooges - shoulda-coulda-woulda - are out in full harmony with bullhorns and reciting history. soon we go to the Valley of the draft that we have been warned about. The numerology of the player from OshKosh will reveal himself as the player picked at #5. Prepare a crown for him - the one that got away from Phil who is too old, practices the witchcraft of the past, and finds value in emptying a vessel before filling it.

Briggs will indeed rule in post-draft Mudsville.

WaltLongmire wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

You will also find that the so-called drop-off in talent starts at #10 where picks are faaaaar less likely to stick around for more than a year or two. In fact, a chronic lament on this and every Knick board is that we drafted so-and-so and missed out on a guy putting up big numbers in Oshkosh - if only, if only.

So just who is this mysterious Wisconsin kid coming out of Oshkosh and why hasn't Briggs sniffed him out yet

Why you holding out on us?

Briggs.

Briggs, the new thread factory? The finder of all players finer than ours. I think the minute I mentioned OshKosh he was racing Chad Ford to the very court I mentioned where all players have potential and upside so high you can't even see it with ESPN-ovision. Yes, Virginia there is such a place and it happens shortly after the draft when the pigmies they call the Itoldyasoes come out of their gaming caves to wag their fingers at the basketball bureaucrats in the skyscrapers.

It won't be long before the three Stooges - shoulda-coulda-woulda - are out in full harmony with bullhorns and reciting history. soon we go to the Valley of the draft that we have been warned about. The numerology of the player from OshKosh will reveal himself as the player picked at #5. Prepare a crown for him - the one that got away from Phil who is too old, practices the witchcraft of the past, and finds value in emptying a vessel before filling it.

Briggs will indeed rule in post-draft Mudsville.

Still holding out on who the Oshkosh is, I see.

I actually depend on Briggs to look for under-publicized players, and some who I was not aware of were pretty good this year, to be honest.

He's also a stocks guy who looks for low/underpriced companies with high upside, and I think looking for diamonds in the rough is in his genes.

A favorite of mine that he brought to my attentionwas Fuzaro, who pulled out of the draft.

Once you get a name it is pretty easy these days to find some vids on YouTube, so I'm always happy to look up a new name.

Walt I thoroughly enjoy Briggs' posts. Didn't make it seem like I was exclusively busting on him - you brought him up. I'm a Knicks fan who started in the sixties and remain a fan. These days there's too chronic a cynicism about everything Knicks. It wears on me. So I get a little punchy with it all.

Secondly i don't understand the near ubiquitous angry responses to what could and should be interesting discussions. It's on of the reasons I left the Elba forum.

When I speak of OshKosh, there are hundreds of echo chamber threads that have long lamented missing out on Rondo, Parker, Artest, and a legion of other players drafted after our picks. This draft is the next draft that will create more such second-guessing.

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
Walt I thoroughly enjoy Briggs' posts. Didn't make it seem like I was exclusively busting on him - you brought him up. I'm a Knicks fan who started in the sixties and remain a fan. These days there's too chronic a cynicism about everything Knicks. It wears on me. So I get a little punchy with it all.

Secondly i don't understand the near ubiquitous angry responses to what could and should be interesting discussions. It's on of the reasons I left the Elba forum.

When I speak of OshKosh, there are hundreds of echo chamber threads that have long lamented missing out on Rondo, Parker, Artest, and a legion of other players drafted after our picks. This draft is the next draft that will create more such second-guessing.

The higher we pick, the more picks to lament after our own.

Exactly, though I think this will be a watershed draft for us.

The Boston Celtics are actively attempting to trade up in next week's draft in order to select Myles Turner, according to multiple league sources.

The Celtics own the 16th overall pick in the draft and Turner is expected to be picked several slots earlier.

One of the Celtics' most pressing needs this offseason is a rim protector. Turner blocked 4.2 shots per 36 minutes in his freshman season at Texas.

The Celtics have one of the deepest collections of future draft assets in the entire NBA, with as many as four potential first rounders in 2016, which gives them considerable flexibility in attempting to move up.

Pistons have contacted the knicks about trading for Tim Hardaway Jr.

wargames wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/62336/uclas-kevon-looney-could-fit-with-knicks

Pistons have contacted the knicks about trading for Tim Hardaway Jr.

I hope the proposed trade is a joke- we take on a washed up Jennings AND his $8mil salary to give them Tim Jr?! Bizarre!