Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:I've also been a Stein supporter for the Knicks at 4 but this also depends on if we know Monroe is signing with us which i have a feeling that Phil or Melo or both already know if he's planning on signing with us or at least if they know the chance is very high of him signing with us. Would you want OK4 and Monroe playing next to each other down low?? I think with the right pieces around them we could make it work but we'd definitely be giving some defense away but with Stein and Monroe down low it works much better.

You take Okafor and save the 60mm--thats a no brainer.

That was what I was thinking. I can't even believe anyone would take WCS over Okafor ridiculous.

Hey you see I am normal:)

I am of a different opinion on Stein than some here--and people are taking offense but I think that after 3 years and really watching him Im being fair in this assessment.

I think Willie Stein has positional awkwardness a weak base and I believe he could be somewhat weak mentally. Also there is a red flag with me that he practices well/ shoots well and then the bright light come on he is very inconsistent. There can be some reasonable justification that he was a football player who has transitioned(I dont like that word)to basketball and he needed more time to hone skills. Anyone can have a bad game--but WCS has had a LOT of mediocre games in his career. Hey the big man position in college is hard--space is limited that could play into it as well. But I have a sour taste with thus guy --I dont like that he doesnt show up at times and that his mentality in practice seems to have more focus than the actual game. Seems like a real good dude--nothing against him.

nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.

Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.

Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.

If Ok4 is that great, he shouldn't be there at 4! If Ok4 is there at 4, there's a reason. You don't go from being the number 1 rated player all year, and then fall to #4 all of a sudden. These guys are professional scouts, with scouting NBA talent for a living. These guys are also business people and see Ok4 as a high stock for an easy trade. Again, if he's there at 4, thats a major red flag. And it's not an easy decision, if scouts don't think he's a franchise player, regardless of his college stats. I'm just a fan, I don't get paid for this. But there are people making millions who do this stuff for a living. Gotta trust your scouts.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.

Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.

I would chose Stein without a second thought.

Because your not choosing when it counts. We are amateur hour GMs here.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Why are people acting like we'll have a choice? There is no chance Okafor is on the board at 4. Zero.

The problem with that is that you're wrong. You have absolutely NO idea how the draft will fall. You can predict just like all of us are doing but you DO NOT KNOW 100%. The obvious guess is the draft going Towns at 1, OK4 or Russell at 2 and the other at 3 but you don't think there's any way at all that the Lakers or Philly take Porzingis?? He was already someone teams were intrigued by coming into the draft, then he had a great workout for teams to show why teams are intrigued by him, then the Lakers gave him a private workout, so you're way wrong in saying there's no chance of OK4 being there at 4 cause it absolutely can happen. I'm not saying it will cause i, just like everyone on here don't know for sure.

Why is Okafor only working out for the T'Wolves and Lakers then? Seems pretty foolhardy if he doesn't have a promise from the Lakers he won't fall past 2.

Russell is indeed working out for the Sixers which tells you he does not have a promise from the Lakers.

I just think it's silly to expect Okafor to last past 2. He's a franchise player. Heck, Minnesota may take him #1. And, no, that doesn't mean Towns will slip to 4 either.

Hoping Okafor somehow slips is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I think where there's a chance someone slips to us is that maybe Philly is enamored with Porzingis and takes him over Russell. Maybe. And even that is highly unlikely.

jbeachboy wrote:whats his work ethic like , stein, he was like a complete no show in the game kentucky was eliminated

All you have to do is look at how he's performed in all his workouts. Dude has aced all of them. Others have been gassed or poor shooting, but he's just humming along. He's not even supposed to look good in shooting drills and he has. So I think that's a testament to his work ethic.

WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.

I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.

I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.

Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.

OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.

Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.

Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.

In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.

Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.

Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.

Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.

You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.

No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.

Also this idea that WCS "never" showed any offensive game isn't true. He was inconsistent but he did show flashes of an offensive game. Whatever his issues were at Kentucky he's working to overcome them and has looked great recently.

As for OK4 working on his conditioning to more closely match WCS. HA!!! Man you can't be serious!!! OK4 will never be the elite athlete that WCS is. You are totally underselling just how elite WCS is as an athlete.

technomaster wrote:If both are available and the Knicks like Stein - dang, hope we trade down.

Larry Sanders's one good season might be a way to gauge Stein's upside. Maybe a 10-10-3bpg season in 29mpg. That's a good player, borderline all-star caliber center. Is it anything special? Will he earn his keep on the offensive end? Will opponents change the way they play because of him?

I also look at Robin Lopez's career as another benchmark. Without looking, something like 8-8-1.5bpg in 25mpg. We can get a Robin Lopez caliber player as a free agent instead.

I like Okafor as a guy who could be Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, the good Eddy Curry, or perhaps more on offense - maybe even Pau Gasol. He's a good passer and sees thme defense. Regardless of what you think of those guys, they demand double or triple teams when they get the ball. Okafor will make his teammates into better shooters.

One thing of note. WCS wasn't a huge factor in his first 2 seasons at Kentucky. He made strides and improved. At 2 years younger, Okafor also has room to grow on D. He won't be growing in high school

I love this comparison. Okafor being a Edddy Curry type with a year of breeding and a member of a championship squad. We can only wonder.

Knicks1969 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.

I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.

I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.

Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.

OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.

Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.

Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.

In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.

Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.

Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.

Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.

You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.

No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.

You actually think Okafor is fluid on offense and Stein will never be as fluid? Have you not watched Stein's footwork at both ends of the floor? Stein with proper coaching may endup as a polished player like Rasheed Wallace. I say Rasheed, becAuse he played inside out and played defense as well.

Honestly, you are basically showing your ignorance if you think Stein will ever have the fluidity and moves OK4 has on the offensive end.

As I said earlier, Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player, OK4 is a baller who needs to put on some muscle to become more athletic.

Big difference, and if you don't understand that difference, you have a problem.

No chance in hell that Jackson would take Stein over OK4.