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Made up my mind. Porzingis @4
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KingQuis
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6/14/2015  10:44 AM
Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?
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smackeddog
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6/14/2015  10:53 AM
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

According to these people, there will never be another good player from europe ever again.

Vmart
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6/14/2015  10:59 AM
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

You have a better chance at Mudiay being the next Rose, Wall, Westbrook than Prozingis being the next Dirk. Do you want to make that mistake? You have one shot at this. It's very easy for us to say I'm taking this guy with the pick. The Knicks don't have that luxury that Detroit had to just take Darko or for that matter the Sixers taking Prozingis they have a very set team and can take the risk of Prozingis possibly being a Dirk clone. Knicks can't take that risk they have one pick to set the franchise in the right direction. I certainly wouldn't make the basis for my team a Euro guy. I have nothing against Euro players I wod be happy to take Prozingis if I had another first round pick this year. I wouldn't take him that high up.

BRIGGS
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6/14/2015  11:04 AM
smackeddog wrote:
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

According to these people, there will never be another good player from europe ever again.

This is the first year that I have personally said take a Euro EVER and I like two. Ill be very happy with Okafor or Kaminsky but I have to admit that Porzingis "looks" like the best player available and I also really like Fuzaro--he looks really tough two ways skilled fast athletic a winner. And it may take both a little settling time but I would expect big things from both. Peoples brains are poisoned to Euor player and I can understand that. But these guys are different. Zinger has the chance to be the next David Robinson and Fuzaro a "version" of Ginobli.

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s3231
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6/14/2015  11:13 AM
Vmart wrote:
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

You have a better chance at Mudiay being the next Rose, Wall, Westbrook than Prozingis being the next Dirk. Do you want to make that mistake? You have one shot at this. It's very easy for us to say I'm taking this guy with the pick. The Knicks don't have that luxury that Detroit had to just take Darko or for that matter the Sixers taking Prozingis they have a very set team and can take the risk of Prozingis possibly being a Dirk clone. Knicks can't take that risk they have one pick to set the franchise in the right direction. I certainly wouldn't make the basis for my team a Euro guy. I have nothing against Euro players I wod be happy to take Prozingis if I had another first round pick this year. I wouldn't take him that high up.

Completely understand but think that mindset is probably a lot of what has been wrong with our organization over the past decade. This shouldn't be about "one pick to set the franchise in the right direction," it should be about drafting at #4, the guy available you think will become the best player.

If we are expecting Phil to right the franchise with one draft pick, then shame on us. Smart organizations make mistakes but their hits outweigh the misses.

We need talent and we need it badly. The whole mindset right now should be how do we maximize every asset that we have? If Phil thinks Winslow is the best guy at #4 and he sees a competitive fire in him that he believes is correlated to success at the next level, fine, then pick Winslow. Likewise for Mudiay. If he looks at Portz and he sees the desire to be one of the best and he comes away convinced KP will be the best player 5 years from now, then he should draft him.

If we're afraid to go for the best talent just because he can't contribute right now, then I think we're screwed because we don't have many assets to begin with. I'm not saying that means draft KP because I haven't seen enough of Mudiay and the others (and more importantly, I haven't met those guys so I don't know their personality, competitive drive, etc.). I'm saying, we need to draft the guy we think will be the best player and not put expectations on the player to be our savior because smart organizations don't risk it all on one pick or trade.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
newyorknewyork
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6/14/2015  11:22 AM
BRIGGS wrote:The player taken at 4 is the player you think will be the best at his peak. You cannot take a draft pick at 4 for fit perceived readiness or any other factor than who you honestly believe will be best player at that very high spot. It's the advantage of the spot-- your teams ability to hit a ball over the fence. The Knicks have been a singles hitter up here. You can go for role player/ fit etc after 20

The player is going to have to be a stud in certain aspects of the game off the bat though with the ability to develop the rest of his game to become that elite level player. Can't have tools to do everything but be raw all the way around. Towns is the #1 player because you know he is going to come in and rebound and block shots from the get go. But has the potential to be a 25pt scorer as well since he has the potential to shoot all over the court or post up or put the ball on the floor. And as a rebounder shot blocker he has potential to be a 14 reb guy and a 2.5 blk guy. Not to mention the ability to dish 4-5 ast.

Porzingis should only be considered at 4 if you know that he will be able to get you 9-10rebs and 1.5blks a game. While developing into a PNR, PNP stud. Mudiay I believe you know you are going to get rebounds, ast, and stls, and probably some Def. His jumper and TOs though are a work in progress.

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BigDaddyG
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6/14/2015  11:22 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
s3231 wrote:For those making the KP to Bargnani comparisons, I think the athleticism that Porzingis has at this stage separates the two by a bit.

I really really really like KP as a prospect and even from just watching interviews, it's diffiicult to not like where his head is at. Like others have said in this thread though, I don't see him being ready to contribute substantially in year one. Physically, he will get abused in the post and if you watch the game footage, it's not uncommon to see his opposition put a 6'7 guy on him and still establish position in the paint and outbox/out rebound KP.

He already looks like he has added a few more pounds since the season ended so I don't see any reason why he can't develop into a star in this league. But if you draft Porgz at #4, the expectation has to be that you will need to wait 1-2 years before he really takes off.

Not sure if Phil and the front office will be willing to wait but you never know. Phil has said he doesn't expect much out of rookies in first couple of years before (especially with bigs) and he brought up Bynum as an example from his time with the Lakers. We'll see what happens.....hell of a prospect though.


Athleticism? Did you see the video I posted of Bargs in game plays at age 19?

Did you see that KrisP highlight where he drove right and dunked over a 7' 3" dude?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
blkexec
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6/14/2015  11:39 AM
Why is Porzingis worth a 4th pick and Kaminsky worlth a 14th pick.

I see both players having similar NBA careers....With Kaminsky having a slight edge. If you guys really like Porzingis, why not just buy back into the 1st round and draft Kaminsky?

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
BigDaddyG
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6/14/2015  11:45 AM
blkexec wrote:Why is Porzingis worth a 4th pick and Kaminsky worlth a 14th pick.

I see both players having similar NBA careers....With Kaminsky having a slight edge. If you guys really like Porzingis, why not just buy back into the 1st round and draft Kaminsky?


KrisP is more athletic and has a higher upside. That's like asking why we don't just buy back into the draft and take Jerian Grant instead going for Russell or Mudiay.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nixluva
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6/14/2015  11:59 AM
KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
CrushAlot
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6/14/2015  12:07 PM
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
I think committing to the tank and moving out guys that weren't a part of the future showed management will be patient. Fans and posters might not be but do you draft to please your fan base or improve your team. I think Phil has the backbone to take criticism if he drafts Kristaps and it takes a year or two for him to fulfill his potential.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
smackeddog
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6/14/2015  12:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2015  12:21 PM
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.

At number 4, all our options are huge risks- WCS, Porzingis, Winslow, Mudiay- it's a crap shoot

Bonn1997
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6/14/2015  12:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2015  12:24 PM
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

That would be worth the first pick in this draft
We can pick HOFers that each of the prospects represents though

blkexec
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6/14/2015  12:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2015  12:45 PM
How quick we forget how great Dirk was at the same age.

1998 Nike Hoop Summit - 33pts 14 rebs MVP (against the top college recruits)

I'm not saying he can't be like Dirk, but he's clearly starting at a lower production point than most of the international greats that had a successful NBA career.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
foosballnick
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6/14/2015  12:43 PM
Glad people here are not drafting for the Knicks. So much of the commentary here seems to be out of fear about what a guy is not rather than hope for what he will become. This pick needs to be a building block to future years, not the whole solution for next year. KP would be a solid pick at 4, so would Okafor and Russell. Mudaiy s=ems like more of a risk. I like WCS but would not use the 4 on him ......so would trade down to get him at a lower spot.
blkexec
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6/14/2015  12:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2015  12:51 PM

This is somebody that was bound for greatness....As Barkely said, he was 19 years old, taking it to Scotty Pipen, one of the greatness defenders. While Porzingis can't dominate guys that will never even smell the NBA. I'm not saying he won't be great, but I'm just saying.....pump the breaks a little!

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
blkexec
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6/14/2015  12:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2015  12:59 PM
Think about this....how come a guy that shot 40% 2 pters......and 30% 3 pters......had such a great shooting display in his video.

Basketball is physical, it's not just talent. Thats why the knicks of the 90's were just as good as any team in the NBA. But skill wise, they were very low.

This guy has low percentages once the game starts because he's not physical enough to impact the game....Even in the Euro league. Thats a main things most Euro guys have to overcome, or they will be back in their native land, regardless of their skill set.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Vmart
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6/14/2015  1:03 PM
foosballnick wrote:Glad people here are not drafting for the Knicks. So much of the commentary here seems to be out of fear about what a guy is not rather than hope for what he will become. This pick needs to be a building block to future years, not the whole solution for next year. KP would be a solid pick at 4, so would Okafor and Russell. Mudaiy s=ems like more of a risk. I like WCS but would not use the 4 on him ......so would trade down to get him at a lower spot.

I don't see how a player that has been in top 4 of the draft for over 2years is more a risk than Prozingis. Prozingis is the flavor of the week.

yellowboy90
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6/14/2015  1:12 PM
Vmart wrote:
KingQuis wrote:Guys... What if Zingy is Dirk 2.0 in 3 years? Would that be worth the 4 pick in this draft?

You have a better chance at Mudiay being the next Rose, Wall, Westbrook than Prozingis being the next Dirk. Do you want to make that mistake? You have one shot at this. It's very easy for us to say I'm taking this guy with the pick. The Knicks don't have that luxury that Detroit had to just take Darko or for that matter the Sixers taking Prozingis they have a very set team and can take the risk of Prozingis possibly being a Dirk clone. Knicks can't take that risk they have one pick to set the franchise in the right direction. I certainly wouldn't make the basis for my team a Euro guy. I have nothing against Euro players I wod be happy to take Prozingis if I had another first round pick this year. I wouldn't take him that high up.

Actually I think Proz has a better chance of being Dirk than Mudiay matching any of those guys. At least Prozi has similar positive similarities as Dirk. The only similarity I see regarding Mudiay and the players you listed is that none of them are shooters. Mudiay isn't in the same league as those guys. People say he is a better passer but how do you know. High school hype means very little and the comp he faced in China is not highly regarded.

All, you can do is trust your scouting regardless of Euro or stateside player. Prozi is not a flash in the pants workout guy, he is a prospect that has been evaluated for years and was a potential lottery guy last year. His only problem is he did not gain the weight people thought he would. If he did that he maybe would have been seen as a the number 1 guy all along. The weight gaining issue is a red flag but I am sure they can do there do diligence medically and researching his background to see if that is an issue. It could be just a lack of emphasis by his club team.

yellowboy90
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6/14/2015  1:20 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:KrisP is extremely talented but also a huge risk. I just don't know that Phil could take that risk in NY. We don't have the patience to wait on anything. That's been proven over and over, including this year.
I think committing to the tank and moving out guys that weren't a part of the future showed management will be patient. Fans and posters might not be but do you draft to please your fan base or improve your team. I think Phil has the backbone to take criticism if he drafts Kristaps and it takes a year or two for him to fulfill his potential.

Yeah, you can't hype Phil as his on man and now suddenly think he will do things to appease fans. How silly would it be If his team do their homework and feel a player is the best choice but picks a player ranked lower? That's just dumb.

I could see if he was someone they didn't scout but it seems like they put in work on most of the top players like they should in a tank season. Look long before his work out teams have been hyping Kristaps. This is not some new thing. DO I have doubts? Yes, but I have doubts on Mudiay, Stein, Kaminsky, and etc. Mudiay can't shoot and is not an elite athlete, Stein doesn't dreb and lacks Offense, and Frank is a lightweight old guy who beasted against kids.

Made up my mind. Porzingis @4

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