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The lottery comes out like this--who do you take
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newyorker4ever
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6/4/2015  10:58 AM
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

On the flip side....you will get hit with a barrage of "I told you so" emails.....And this could be the down fall of your scouting credibility. The best you can do is slow down on the WCS hate, and let it play out.

Otherwise, you are just building your own rock that will eventually fall on you when Stein has the Garden rocking. Thats If we select him. Russell / Ok4 are still in play. Especially when Mudiay's video comes out and shows that he is an above average shooter....With good form. Him and his agent sees all the positive feedback on the current videos, highlighting their shooting touch. It's not hard to do the same with Mudiay, which will increase his value and even cause some WCS fans to change their minds. So it aint over until I hear her singing!

But you like so many other players, it's all a big set up.....Once Stein shines, all you will say is look at Kaminsky's one NBA game where he put up 20 and 10....or look who Stein was playing against. I think you will always be an offensive guy, but claim to like defense.

His draft board from last year wasn't so hot either so who knows what this year's will turn out to be like. I think it's much easier to predict the lottery or come close but when you get outside of the lottery is when it gets tough.
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newyorker4ever
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6/4/2015  10:59 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:You take Okafor which means you don't have to spend money on Monroe.

Maybe but you would still need to put a player with big defense next to him.
newyorker4ever
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6/4/2015  11:01 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:What everyone always says is that Defense wins Championships, but when it comes time to actually put that to the test, no one wants to actually go for the great defensive talent. Everyone gets excited by the prospect of a player that can score and they hope that player will be the next big thing. neither Russell nor Okafor would improve the Knicks defense one bit. Sure we'd score a bit more but not being able to stop the better teams would continue to haunt our post seasons for years.

We can always get scoring in Free Agency. The best defensive bigs won't be coming to NY in Free Agency and if they did it would be at a substantial cost. WCS solves that problem for years. Not only can we get scoring in FA but we can get additional 2 way players to make the WCS selection stand up even more. We could actually build one of the better defensive teams in the league. I know it would be the most unpopular move for Phil to make. It's just my personal feeling about it.

The difference is that Okafor and Russell are potentially transcendent offensive players who the Knicks can build their team around for years to come. They are the types of players you drop everything for and rethink your roster so you can build around them. Don't worry, there's about a one percent chance one of these two guys is there when we pick.

This ^^^

Drafting OK4 or Russell means we can aggressively shop Melo for additional picks and assets.

I don't think that's what it means. I don't think Melo is going anywhere.

He's not. Melo will give Phil at least two years to get a team together that can contend in the playoffs with this being year one.
newyorker4ever
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6/4/2015  11:05 AM
nixluva wrote:IMO WCS has more upside than Tyson Chandler. If Tyson can average 10 a game I think WCS could average more. He's already putting in work on his offensive game and he's got a quicker 1st step and agility compared to Tyson. He's not going to be limited to only Alleyoops. IMO WCS will be able to be used in the flow of the offense, making him a 2 way player as opposed to a very limited role player as BRIGGS is trying to say he will be.

I'd love to see WCS go to learn from Olajuwon. He has the kind of agility and quickness to be able to learn that kind of footwork. In WCS workout video you could see his agility and balance when he made spin moves. If you watch the video again pay attention to his smooth motion and balance. He never looks out of control body wise. That is rare for a 7'er. WCS actually showed great form on his pull up jumper. I just think BRIGGS is wrong on this one.

I'm also a WCS fan but you gotta stop thinking that what we saw in that workout video or any other video where he's just putting up shots by himself is what we'll see in games. I don't think I have to tell you this but there's a huge difference.
blkexec
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6/4/2015  11:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  11:06 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

I'm having a heart attack right now about the fact that you can see the future.

All this talk about heart attacks....I'm leaving work early to workout!

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Knicks1969
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6/4/2015  11:16 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
nixluva wrote:IMO WCS has more upside than Tyson Chandler. If Tyson can average 10 a game I think WCS could average more. He's already putting in work on his offensive game and he's got a quicker 1st step and agility compared to Tyson. He's not going to be limited to only Alleyoops. IMO WCS will be able to be used in the flow of the offense, making him a 2 way player as opposed to a very limited role player as BRIGGS is trying to say he will be.

I'd love to see WCS go to learn from Olajuwon. He has the kind of agility and quickness to be able to learn that kind of footwork. In WCS workout video you could see his agility and balance when he made spin moves. If you watch the video again pay attention to his smooth motion and balance. He never looks out of control body wise. That is rare for a 7'er. WCS actually showed great form on his pull up jumper. I just think BRIGGS is wrong on this one.

I'm also a WCS fan but you gotta stop thinking that what we saw in that workout video or any other video where he's just putting up shots by himself is what we'll see in games. I don't think I have to tell you this but there's a huge difference.

For what is worth, we don't know how any of these kids will turn out for sure. It takes hard work and dedication to be special. JJ Riddick was a wonderful college player; a lot of us thought his game was going to translate in the pros. However, his first four years in the league was horrendous. He stayed true to his form, and it is paying off for him.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fishmike
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6/4/2015  11:18 AM
Stein taking plays off and not bringing it is a fair concern, because he did that in KY. When you look at their schedule, and the talent on their team its asking alot of a young guy to stay 100% focused. So many blowout wins, especially early on. We saw the same thing from Towns. 10 man rotation loaded with NBA players. Thats not an environment thats going to push a guy to grow. Rather its going to have him focus on his job. In WCS is was defending the PR and challening wings in the lane or pushing them to help. At that job he was the best in CBB. How does WCS expand his offensive game?

I dont like WCS at 4 one bit. But there is a chance, and a very good chance he has more skills and BB game then we have seen. Assuming Towns/DR/OK4 are off the board it comes down to workouts. If WCS wows them than so be it. Phil and the Knicks scouted KY practices extensively as well as games. You have to let these guys their jobs.

That being said to answer the question in the thread to me its a no brainer. OK4. You can build a top flight offense around Melo and OK4. Add a few defensive lunch pale guys and you have a real squad.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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6/4/2015  12:20 PM
This is stupid. If Ok4 falls to 4 were taking him. how many times do you get a 6-11 260 pound 20-10 C who shot 67% in his first year? Never. WCS or Russell not the same player. Also Ok4 played the last 12 games on one leg and had the balls to play through it.
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nixluva
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6/4/2015  12:23 PM
fishmike wrote:Stein taking plays off and not bringing it is a fair concern, because he did that in KY. When you look at their schedule, and the talent on their team its asking alot of a young guy to stay 100% focused. So many blowout wins, especially early on. We saw the same thing from Towns. 10 man rotation loaded with NBA players. Thats not an environment thats going to push a guy to grow. Rather its going to have him focus on his job. In WCS is was defending the PR and challening wings in the lane or pushing them to help. At that job he was the best in CBB. How does WCS expand his offensive game?

I dont like WCS at 4 one bit. But there is a chance, and a very good chance he has more skills and BB game then we have seen. Assuming Towns/DR/OK4 are off the board it comes down to workouts. If WCS wows them than so be it. Phil and the Knicks scouted KY practices extensively as well as games. You have to let these guys their jobs.

That being said to answer the question in the thread to me its a no brainer. OK4. You can build a top flight offense around Melo and OK4. Add a few defensive lunch pale guys and you have a real squad.


I fully understand the rationale for OK4. He's a legit offensive anchor to an offense. He could be a franchise player that all teams hope to land.

I look at WCS in a similar way but just from a different perspective. He will be a teams defensive anchor. With a great defensive big like WCS you can have sustained success. It's the one thing you can be sure to bring most every night and thus give your team a chance to win. We can more easily replicate 80-90% of what OK4 does than we could what WCS does IMO. We could get a big man scorer in Free Agency. There's no big man who can defend like WCS for anywhere near the cost of his rookie contract.
BRIGGS
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6/4/2015  12:24 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

On the flip side....you will get hit with a barrage of "I told you so" emails.....And this could be the down fall of your scouting credibility. The best you can do is slow down on the WCS hate, and let it play out.

Otherwise, you are just building your own rock that will eventually fall on you when Stein has the Garden rocking. Thats If we select him. Russell / Ok4 are still in play. Especially when Mudiay's video comes out and shows that he is an above average shooter....With good form. Him and his agent sees all the positive feedback on the current videos, highlighting their shooting touch. It's not hard to do the same with Mudiay, which will increase his value and even cause some WCS fans to change their minds. So it aint over until I hear her singing!

But you like so many other players, it's all a big set up.....Once Stein shines, all you will say is look at Kaminsky's one NBA game where he put up 20 and 10....or look who Stein was playing against. I think you will always be an offensive guy, but claim to like defense.

His draft board from last year wasn't so hot either so who knows what this year's will turn out to be like. I think it's much easier to predict the lottery or come close but when you get outside of the lottery is when it gets tough.

That isnt a draft board thats a bunch of people making selections. I didnt even make a pick for the Knicks last year we had none. The only picks I made last year was for Tornto from the draft and I got Elfrid Payton and KJ McDaniels late in rd 1 and early rd 2 and Philly I took Jusuf Nurkic and Jabari Parker for Philly. Not bad for the world of fantasy.

RIP Crushalot😞
MaTT4281
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6/4/2015  1:14 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This is stupid. If Ok4 falls to 4 were taking him. how many times do you get a 6-11 260 pound 20-10 C who shot 67% in his first year? Never. WCS or Russell not the same player. Also Ok4 played the last 12 games on one leg and had the balls to play through it.

You know this is your thread, right?

I agree, if Okafor drops - you take him. If Russell drops - you take him. If Towns drops - you wake up and change the sheets after that wet dream.
Not a lot of brainpower needed on those picks. I'm inclined to throw Mudiay in that group as well.

3 more weeks.
crzymdups
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6/4/2015  1:23 PM
Reading the tea leaves - Lakers no longer interested in Rondo... I think they leaning towards taking a PG at #2. Russell or Mudiay. I think Minnesota has to be taking Towns, I can't see any way they don't... but if Minnesota wants Okafor... maybe we grab Okafor at 4 and talk trade with Minnesota?

I would be happy with Okafor... but you have to ask Minnesota if they're thrilled with Towns or not...

¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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6/4/2015  1:27 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is stupid. If Ok4 falls to 4 were taking him. how many times do you get a 6-11 260 pound 20-10 C who shot 67% in his first year? Never. WCS or Russell not the same player. Also Ok4 played the last 12 games on one leg and had the balls to play through it.

You know this is your thread, right?

I agree, if Okafor drops - you take him. If Russell drops - you take him. If Towns drops - you wake up and change the sheets after that wet dream.
Not a lot of brainpower needed on those picks. I'm inclined to throw Mudiay in that group as well.

3 more weeks.

Yeah only 5 months of this stuff I think Im nearly done--Im out of here before the draft to Europe anyway when school ends for a few weeks

RIP Crushalot😞
blkexec
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6/4/2015  3:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  3:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This is stupid. If Ok4 falls to 4 were taking him. how many times do you get a 6-11 260 pound 20-10 C who shot 67% in his first year? Never. WCS or Russell not the same player. Also Ok4 played the last 12 games on one leg and had the balls to play through it.

I never heard anyone say their own thread is stupid....For the first time, I think we agree on something.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
H1AND1
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6/4/2015  8:32 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

I think a lot of people may overrate WCS as a prospect but I think you underrate him. There was an article posted in another thread that he ranks 2nd all time in defensive win shares among college players in the last couple decades. That's pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. All that being said I wouldn't want to draft WCS unless Towns, Russell, Okador, and even Mudiay or Winslow were off the board. I think the Knicks need to swing for the fences and try to nab a future star. WCS will be a terror on D but i dont think hell ever be more than a 9-10 ppg game player or someone other teams have to game plan for on offense.

Do you think that Dwight Howard was better then Stein the year he was drafted?

Interesting point, but yeah, I do.
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The lottery comes out like this--who do you take
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