EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, based on our needs I'd take Kaminsky ahead of Mudiay too. I might take Winslow ahead of both but haven't decided. I think you're right that Kaminsky is the most ready of the 3. I still really want D Russell though.

Hes a tough guard. Greg Monroe would get space hes NEVER had in the NBA and the load would be taken off Melo which should allow for more efficient scoring and hopefully the dishing is contagious. The bigs could play off each other and melo would NEVER be double teamed. It would also open up penetrating lanes for the guards. I was just thinking if we took the better defenders and put him on Kaminsky--Dray Green--Green is 6-6 230 Kaminsky is 7-1 230 hes SEVEN inches taller. Hes going to be bale to post shoot or pass right over the top of almost any player in the NBA and if they put a bigger player--he uses the pump fake. Hes going to be a handful and I think with his mobility and passing skills teams cab be very creative.

Ignoring where the height of their heads stop, Dray Green has a 7'1 wingspan. Kaminsky is 6'11. Effective reach is less than Dray - and most other bigs. He is not easily shooting over any PF in this league.

smackeddog wrote:Why isn't Kaminsky ranked higher?- it can't just be age, surely

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I do think we'd be fine offensively. Kaminsky would fit like a glove in the Triangle. He's got everything you'd want in a versatile big in the Triangle. Offensively I see no issues.

On defense I see issues with the way teams are spreading out and attacking with PnR. Kaminsky will get exposed out in space against PnR IMO. Monroe would also have issues. I think having 3 lateral foot speed limited bigs in Monroe, Kaminsky and Melo together would have serious issues covering on defense. No one is really that worried about Post defense. It's the 4 Out style that is the problem. Not enough foot speed to allow the defense to shut down PnR penetration and recover to 3pt shooters. Defensively we need a rover with shot blocking ability, who can cover a lot of ground quickly. WCS!!!

2. Willie Cauley-Stein might still be underrated. That Kentucky's Cauley-Stein, the man whose middle name is now officially "Trill", is No. 2 in that DWS/40 chart despite his best qualities falling outside traditional box scores is remarkable. The rangy 7-footer gets his share of rebounds, blocks and steals, but when I charted the Wildcats' defense for an SI magazine project this season, Cauley-Stein's real value became evident in rim protection (he was Kentucky's best at this); overall turnovers forced (also best on the team on a per-possession basis); switchability on pick-and-rolls, handoffs and off-ball screens; and his ability to act as a sort of rover who could, on any given possession, guard men on the blocks, cut off penetration, or close out on perimeter shooters. It's these hard-to-track and less-quantifiable attributes that make Cauley-Stein a justifiable top-five pick with the potential for a long, valuable NBA career.

The net - WCS gives on offense is too much to be made up. Frankly Kaminsky is worlds ahead of WCS is the game of basketball. If I put WCS on Wisconsin and took Kaminsky off they wouldnt win 20 games.
If I put Kaminsky on Kentucky they would not have lost 1 game and they wouldn't have had 6-7 close games. Why becuase Frank is simply a superior basketball player. Nixluva you need to score points in this NBA--you need D but if you cant score forget about it. With WCS you are playing 5-4 deadly for double teams because you can defend WCS with anyone over 6-4. Im sorry nix if we grab Stein and I guarantee this we wont win 30 games. The passing will be terrible the cohesion will be awful and it will be a brutal game to watch.

BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

Kaminsky avg minutes were like 33/34 and 1.5 BPG and WCS avg minutes were like 23/24 and 1.7 BPG so WCS blocked more shots with like 10 less minutes a game so what are you talking about??

Straight up final four when it counts

Frank Kaminsky 37 minutes 20 points 11 rebounds 2 assists 2 blocks
Willie Stein 33 minutes 2 points 5 rebounds 2 blocks

Wisconsin wins enuff said.

Ive been saying it for 2 months if we want the BEST defender in the draft for the NBA we should grab an extra pick and take Jordan Mickey.

I dont compare Frank Kaminsky and Stein because they really are two different ball players. One doesnt play hard all the time and has no offensive game the other not the same athlete but has the heart a nd skills.

What great NBA player goes 1-4 2 points 5 rebounds in the final four at 7 feet tall and gets pushed around by guys who are 6-4

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Why isn't Kaminsky ranked higher?- it can't just be age, surely

Maybe not just age but I think that's a big part of it. I've been looking at Stephen Shea's CPR rating system, which has Kaminsky at 17th, but that system gives a lot of weight to age. That's just one metrics system but I think age affects many people's ratings. Then you have the fact that he doesn't look strong or athletic. In terms of win shares, which doesn't adjust at all for age, he's right up there with Towns and ahead of D Russell and Okafor. You could say age should be accounted for and it's not right to compare a senior to a freshman though.

Is Shea the guy that said Harris is the most underrated player in the league? Do you think he would be a good free agent signing?

Yes, he is the guy who wrote that. I only skimmed the article a while ago and haven't really given it much thought. Harris' #s don't impress me though. He looks like a poor man's Melo.

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I guess none of us are better at evaluating talent than Tom Izzo--I mean 6 final fours with secondary type players he recruited. This guy is saying that Frank Kaminsky is the best player in the big ten since Big Dog Robinson.

Yes and he's talking about him offensively and this is in college and i'm guessing you understand that there's a huge difference in college and the NBA. LOL

Obviously but 7-1 is a difference maker. Hes extremely tall but at the same time agile mobile and can play post in to 3 and hes a great passer plus he can handle--all of that stuff translates well over to the NBA. This is not a 7 foot lob catcher.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

Kaminsky avg minutes were like 33/34 and 1.5 BPG and WCS avg minutes were like 23/24 and 1.7 BPG so WCS blocked more shots with like 10 less minutes a game so what are you talking about??

Straight up final four when it counts

Frank Kaminsky 37 minutes 20 points 11 rebounds 2 assists 2 blocks
Willie Stein 33 minutes 2 points 5 rebounds 2 blocks

Wisconsin wins enuff said.

Ive been saying it for 2 months if we want the BEST defender in the draft for the NBA we should grab an extra pick and take Jordan Mickey.

I dont compare Frank Kaminsky and Stein because they really are two different ball players. One doesnt play hard all the time and has no offensive game the other not the same athlete but has the heart a nd skills.

What great NBA player goes 1-4 2 points 5 rebounds in the final four at 7 feet tall and gets pushed around by guys who are 6-4

BRIGGS wrote:He's the ONLY player in the draft who can walk in here and start and be a net +. If we get Monroe and increase his minutes to 36-38 let Frank play face 4 for 32- 35 and keep Melos minutes at 30 to keep him fresh--I think we can be highly competitive IF we start stocking up on athletic perimeter defenders who can also play OFFENSIVELY--whether Melo stays in the long run--no idea--but I think we can increase his value which may be at an all time low right now.

This is what Memphis does they have two GREAT backcourt defenders and they can run the offense through the top of the post. In my scenario we ACQUIRE players who can defend athletically on the perimeter BUT can also play OFFENSE---- absolutely NOT 1 player on my team will be here if they are raw on offense.

This is the fastest way to get better its the smartest way to get better. Mudiay might be a great PG one day or he could be a version of Tyreke Evans. I really think Franks can be special because of his handle/playmaking post and shooting skills. How many players in this draft willed their teams to 2 final 4's in a row and won like 75 games?

Post defense is easy--Greg Monroe Kaminsky and whoever their back ups--who is the 30 point post player right now? Thats right there is none. Its all perimeter based. 3 and penetration. We have SIZE to bother a penetrator we need SPEED from the perimeter.

Actually a guy like Stein would make them better not a guy that will take shots/touches away from them. There are 2 sides of the court Briggs and both Melo/Monroe need protection on the side where we don't get to shoot.

wh4t wrote:Pistons are waiting for Greg Monroe to leave and preparing for the next Moose. They're very intrigued about Kaminsky. They said he's is going to bring what Greg didn't, which is shooting and spacing the floor. Kaminsky isn't that bad of a defender neither. A lot of Knick fans were dying for Okafor to come over and defensively, he's worse than Kaminsky who isn't lackadaisical like he is. If phil is smart and still wants a big man, kaminsky is the one. WCS, myles turner, and porcupine not messing with frank

If we had Drummond....i would be all over Kaminsky. He has more offensive potential than Monroe. Thats why Detroit wants him......not because of his defense.