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D.Carroll wants to play for Knicks.
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blkexec
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5/28/2015  11:46 AM
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/28/paul-millsap-demarre-carroll-may-be-fits-for-jacksons-knicks/

Plus he's the only FA who seemed to genuinely like the idea of becoming a Knick when asked about it at allstar weekend

Carroll and Monroe would be a very solid FA haul.

Who protects the rim? It will be a layup line

WCS

But that would mean no Russell, Mudiay or Winslow which would leave an even bigger hole in the roster talent wise. If the Knicks take aaa as at 4 then they really outdid their own stupidity

Well....you have to pick your poison. We can not fill every weakness in one year. We will have a weakness somewhere. And look to fill it the following season.

I know defensive two way bigs don't grow on trees...assuming WCS learns how to contribute on both ends. Regardless who we draft, nobody is a finished product. Towns has weaknesses just like WCS or Kaminsky. We can only hope these guys improve....same with FAs like Monroe. Seems like everybody thinks players never improve. A change of scenery is all that's needed sometimes.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
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Moonangie
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5/28/2015  11:47 AM
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/28/paul-millsap-demarre-carroll-may-be-fits-for-jacksons-knicks/

Plus he's the only FA who seemed to genuinely like the idea of becoming a Knick when asked about it at allstar weekend

Carroll and Monroe would be a very solid FA haul.

Who protects the rim? It will be a layup line

WCS

But that would mean no Russell, Mudiay or Winslow which would leave an even bigger hole in the roster talent wise. If the Knicks take aaa as at 4 then they really outdid their own stupidity

Well....you have to pick your poison. We can not fill every weakness in one year. We will have a weakness somewhere. And look to fill it the following season.

Exactly. We are not tasked with turning the Knicks into a contender next year. We are trying to add pieces TOWARD our future team. This is CHESS and small moves in the direction of establishing our core are better than blasting out with our Queen without building a core.
newyorker4ever
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5/28/2015  11:50 AM
FistOfOakley wrote:A) He's 29... when i say he's old... i mean there's really no upside left.. esp being a role player...
B) He plays in a vastly different system than ours with vastly different personnel... role players who are good in a specific way is hard to replicate unless you put them in the same kind of positions as he was on the team that made him successful... we don't have Al Horford, Teague or Korver...
C) He's a late bloomer... normally not a good sign... all you have to do is remember the chris child's signing...

he fits the profile of the kind of role player you do not target to a T... he's a dangerous signing for anyone that's not the hawks...


Ok, so no Carrol, Milsap, LMA, Gasol, Rondo, or anyone else that's 29 or older. Got it.
newyorker4ever
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5/28/2015  11:54 AM
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
blkexec wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/28/paul-millsap-demarre-carroll-may-be-fits-for-jacksons-knicks/

Plus he's the only FA who seemed to genuinely like the idea of becoming a Knick when asked about it at allstar weekend

Carroll and Monroe would be a very solid FA haul.

Who protects the rim? It will be a layup line

WCS

But that would mean no Russell, Mudiay or Winslow which would leave an even bigger hole in the roster talent wise. If the Knicks take aaa as at 4 then they really outdid their own stupidity

Well....you have to pick your poison. We can not fill every weakness in one year. We will have a weakness somewhere. And look to fill it the following season.

Exactly, and if we're gonna have to go with players we already have for a year then our best spot for that is either guard position cause we have Gallo, Timmy, Calderon, Shved? Ledo? to play the 1 and 2 for a year.
smackeddog
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5/28/2015  11:58 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
FistOfOakley wrote:A) He's 29... when i say he's old... i mean there's really no upside left.. esp being a role player...
B) He plays in a vastly different system than ours with vastly different personnel... role players who are good in a specific way is hard to replicate unless you put them in the same kind of positions as he was on the team that made him successful... we don't have Al Horford, Teague or Korver...
C) He's a late bloomer... normally not a good sign... all you have to do is remember the chris child's signing...

he fits the profile of the kind of role player you do not target to a T... he's a dangerous signing for anyone that's not the hawks...


Ok, so no Carrol, Milsap, LMA, Gasol, Rondo, or anyone else that's 29 or older. Got it.

I don't think he realizes that the best players spend their first 4 years with the team that drafted them, then ink in the max contract ASAP, so that takes them out of the running for a further 4-5 years. The only time there is a chance of signing them is when they are 27-28.
RonRon
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5/28/2015  11:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/28/2015  12:05 PM
Only one out of the 30 year olds that I like would be LA
He simply fits the Triangle and has the skills/size to do what Pau Gasol did for the Lakers, with the ability to play PF/C, a good mid range game, good play HIGH POST and DEEP POST, and has improved his 3pt shot
At some point, we will need TOP TIER talents to draw interest from future TOP TIER STARS like Durant and Whiteside, in addition to our #4 pick in 2017


Especially at their ages and our inability to surround them with the talent that Atlanta has with depth, young talents, and HIGH IQ players
Carroll is a good player but not worth a contract about 12m per year
Just as Millsap isn't worth a MAX contract


At one point of their careers, these players want to get their final contract and get the most they can...
They are just using NYK's just as many others have like Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, and many others


If Atlanta does pay these guys, they will also have to decide if they will pay Al Horford who is younger and arguablly better than both these players
If they do pay Carroll and Millsap, we should consider signing a poison pill or some sort of deal for Mike Muscula as well as a trade for Walter Tavarase's rights
It doesn't have to be a MAX poison pill like Asik/Lin's, it could be a Laundry Fields like or a bit lower
Knixkik
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5/28/2015  12:16 PM
smackeddog wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
FistOfOakley wrote:A) He's 29... when i say he's old... i mean there's really no upside left.. esp being a role player...
B) He plays in a vastly different system than ours with vastly different personnel... role players who are good in a specific way is hard to replicate unless you put them in the same kind of positions as he was on the team that made him successful... we don't have Al Horford, Teague or Korver...
C) He's a late bloomer... normally not a good sign... all you have to do is remember the chris child's signing...

he fits the profile of the kind of role player you do not target to a T... he's a dangerous signing for anyone that's not the hawks...


Ok, so no Carrol, Milsap, LMA, Gasol, Rondo, or anyone else that's 29 or older. Got it.

I don't think he realizes that the best players spend their first 4 years with the team that drafted them, then ink in the max contract ASAP, so that takes them out of the running for a further 4-5 years. The only time there is a chance of signing them is when they are 27-28.

Right, if you land Monroe and Carroll who are 24 and 28 years old, you have done very well from that perspective.
nixluva
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5/28/2015  12:22 PM
It's funny all the concern about age. Lebron is the same age as Melo!!! We already have young developing players on the team. What we're trying to do is add some vets who can lead the way and develop the younger players behind them. It's a 2 tier process. Not all of the young players will be back but I think we have a good amount of youth. New young players who are better talents will likely replace some of the kids we had this year.


No.	Player	          Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date		Age
0	Shane Larkin	  PG	5-11	176	October 2, 1992		22
11	Ricky Ledo	  SG	6-7	195	September 10, 1992	22
5	Tim Hardaway	  SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1992		22
2	Langston Galloway PG	6-2	201	December 9, 1991	23
17	Cleanthony Early  SF	6-8	219	April 17, 1991		23
4	Quincy Acy	  PF	6-7	233	October 6, 1990		24
6	Travis Wear	  SF	6-10	230	September 21, 1990	24
1	Alexey Shved	  SG	6-6	190	December 16, 1988	26
42	Lance Thomas	  PF	6-8	225	April 24, 1988		26
45	Cole Aldrich	  C	6-11	245	October 31, 1988	26
fishmike
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5/28/2015  12:34 PM
Carroll would be a great pickup. He doesnt pidgeon you into set line ups or marry you to certain style of play. The simple fact is we need guys. We need NBA pros who know the game and know how to win. The fact that this is a Fisher guy makes it even better. He can play either forward spot and he can defend 1-4.

He's essentially the junk yard dog (Jerome Williams) who can hit 3s. There isnt a drafted player or another FA that he doesnt fit well next to, because he's happy to earn his paycheck on defense and hitting 3s. While a starting $$ of $10mm a year seems a lot for a role player, it is... but its a need and we have the cash and he would be an impact player.

If we do go defense and draft WCS I could see a team like this being pretty good:
C WCS
PF Melo
SF Carroll ($10mm)
SG Galloway
PG Dragic ($17mm max)

Or if you pick Mudiay we have an NBA pro out there for great defense and another guy he can drive and dish to.

The notion that 29-33 is too old is nuts. He also doesnt have the minutes under his belt some of the other 30 somethings in the league have... he's bounced around alot earlier

I hope we get him

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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5/28/2015  12:47 PM
fishmike wrote:Carroll would be a great pickup. He doesnt pidgeon you into set line ups or marry you to certain style of play. The simple fact is we need guys. We need NBA pros who know the game and know how to win. The fact that this is a Fisher guy makes it even better. He can play either forward spot and he can defend 1-4.

He's essentially the junk yard dog (Jerome Williams) who can hit 3s. There isnt a drafted player or another FA that he doesnt fit well next to, because he's happy to earn his paycheck on defense and hitting 3s. While a starting $$ of $10mm a year seems a lot for a role player, it is... but its a need and we have the cash and he would be an impact player.

If we do go defense and draft WCS I could see a team like this being pretty good:
C WCS
PF Melo
SF Carroll ($10mm)
SG Galloway
PG Dragic ($17mm max)

Or if you pick Mudiay we have an NBA pro out there for great defense and another guy he can drive and dish to.

The notion that 29-33 is too old is nuts. He also doesnt have the minutes under his belt some of the other 30 somethings in the league have... he's bounced around alot earlier

I hope we get him

Good post - I agree completely. (Though I don't think Dragic is leaving South Beach)

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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5/28/2015  12:55 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:Carroll would be a great pickup. He doesnt pidgeon you into set line ups or marry you to certain style of play. The simple fact is we need guys. We need NBA pros who know the game and know how to win. The fact that this is a Fisher guy makes it even better. He can play either forward spot and he can defend 1-4.

He's essentially the junk yard dog (Jerome Williams) who can hit 3s. There isnt a drafted player or another FA that he doesnt fit well next to, because he's happy to earn his paycheck on defense and hitting 3s. While a starting $$ of $10mm a year seems a lot for a role player, it is... but its a need and we have the cash and he would be an impact player.

If we do go defense and draft WCS I could see a team like this being pretty good:
C WCS
PF Melo
SF Carroll ($10mm)
SG Galloway
PG Dragic ($17mm max)

Or if you pick Mudiay we have an NBA pro out there for great defense and another guy he can drive and dish to.

The notion that 29-33 is too old is nuts. He also doesnt have the minutes under his belt some of the other 30 somethings in the league have... he's bounced around alot earlier

I hope we get him

Good post - I agree completely. (Though I don't think Dragic is leaving South Beach)


thanks man. I just threw Dragic out there, but lets be real, Miami sucks. The weather is great but its a weird area. If you rich (like these guys) there are a few money draining fancy places to hang out, and the rest of the place is pretty dodgy. The fans arent great, the arena isnt great, the areas sans weather isnt great... I think he would be pretty open to coming here for big money. I dont like the idea of drafting WCS... he's a piece yes, but not a foundation. Then again who knows... Im a bit checked out on this team so everything is wait and see how it plays out for me
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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5/28/2015  12:57 PM
gunsnewing wrote:My dream team since we blew the lottery has been:
C-M.Gasol
PF-Monroe
SF-Melo
SG-Carroll
PG-Russell or Mudiay

I thought you were going to put Mickey Mouse at the sg to get another M in there.
callmened
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5/28/2015  1:06 PM
"According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back."

are we talking about this sentence? lol. sigh.

well i hope this is true

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
crzymdups
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5/28/2015  1:09 PM
I love Carroll and would love to sign him... though I wonder if some of Phil's tweets will come back to bite him. Wonder if Carroll will take something like this personally?

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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5/28/2015  1:10 PM
callmened wrote:"According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back."

are we talking about this sentence? lol. sigh.

well i hope this is true

you dont have to dig much to see Fisher has impacted a lot of guys in the NBA. Read some Kobe/Durant comments on him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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5/28/2015  1:10 PM
I think WCS is a foundational piece. He anchors your defense for a decade and allows you to build a team that you know will be strong defensively every year. It's not a small thing. You can always add more scoring. The trick is to have that player who helps your team have a chance to play championship defense. Once you have WCS every other defensive talent you add is enhanced by his presence. Carroll is suddenly an even better defender with WCS behind him. Galloway and Thomas are better. More importantly Melo is better.

When Tyson 1st came to NY in 2011-12 that team was ranked 5th in defense. I believe WCS could have that kind of impact when paired with good perimeter defenders like Carroll, Lance Thomas and Galloway. Maybe even a kid like Thanasis could come off the bench and help create a really elite defensive unit when we need stops.
franco12
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5/28/2015  1:13 PM
fishmike wrote:Carroll would be a great pickup. He doesnt pidgeon you into set line ups or marry you to certain style of play. The simple fact is we need guys. We need NBA pros who know the game and know how to win. The fact that this is a Fisher guy makes it even better. He can play either forward spot and he can defend 1-4.

He's essentially the junk yard dog (Jerome Williams) who can hit 3s. There isnt a drafted player or another FA that he doesnt fit well next to, because he's happy to earn his paycheck on defense and hitting 3s. While a starting $$ of $10mm a year seems a lot for a role player, it is... but its a need and we have the cash and he would be an impact player.

If we do go defense and draft WCS I could see a team like this being pretty good:
C WCS
PF Melo
SF Carroll ($10mm)
SG Galloway
PG Dragic ($17mm max)

Or if you pick Mudiay we have an NBA pro out there for great defense and another guy he can drive and dish to.

The notion that 29-33 is too old is nuts. He also doesnt have the minutes under his belt some of the other 30 somethings in the league have... he's bounced around alot earlier

I hope we get him

Fish - I normally agree, but age is a concern. We need players and we have cash, but honestly I'd rather find some undrafted players and roll the dice there.

The fact is peak physical performance does drop and in basketball, players peak around 27:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=2953

I'd rather keep my cash in my pocket unless I'm buying youth with upside or at least the hope that they will continue to play well.

Yes, there are outliers, and Carroll might do well for all 4/5 years of his next contract.

But we need to be rebuilding. We're not one move away.

DeAndre Jordan is the right age and I would offer him max money and one of Phil's rings.
callmened
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5/28/2015  1:15 PM
fishmike wrote:
callmened wrote:"According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back."

are we talking about this sentence? lol. sigh.

well i hope this is true

you dont have to dig much to see Fisher has impacted a lot of guys in the NBA. Read some Kobe/Durant comments on him.

im sure it has. will they come to the knicks? thats another story. we shall see. i hope so

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
yellowboy90
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5/28/2015  1:28 PM
How does Carroll help you against a team like Cleveland?
mreinman
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5/28/2015  1:29 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:How does Carroll help you against a team like Cleveland?

what do you mean?

who does help?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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