BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:you don't even talk about defense. Its irrelevant to you?

Its irrelevant to you that a 7-1 240 pound junior had 2 points and 5 rebounds in a final four game. If I was a GM Id ask him hey Willie where were you in that title game--why cant you give us better than 1-4 when it counts? Why did Kamnisky get 20-11? You were the experienced player out there--how can I rely on you--you let your teammates down.

Maybe because Calapari offense sucks and is unimaginative. There offense lacked pacing, with a power forward playing 3. In the nba he'll get more spacing, somewhat do to the longer 3or line and maybe because he goes to a 1 -4 out team.

Also, who counts one game as a career?

By the way I'm not even a Stein fan but hopefully biding war starts for him or mudiay and the Knicks use it to their advantage.

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:you don't even talk about defense. Its irrelevant to you?

Its irrelevant to you that a 7-1 240 pound junior had 2 points and 5 rebounds in a final four game. If I was a GM Id ask him hey Willie where were you in that title game--why cant you give us better than 1-4 when it counts? Why did Kamnisky get 20-11? You were the experienced player out there--how can I rely on you--you let your teammates down.

He is not a focal point of the offense.

based on that assessment, maybe based on the final game, he should drop to the 2nd round.

Comparing him to kaminsky is silly. Kaminsky can't defend and WCS can't score.

And, we both know that WCS goes higher than kaminsky.

That will be close. I think IF Kaminsky drops to 8 he wont get past it.

mreinman wrote:Boston looking to trade up to get Stein. Brad Stevens and Ainge aint no dummies. These are the guys who drafted kelly O.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/21/report-celtics-interested-in-trading-up-in-draft-maybe-for-willie-cauley-stein/

His skill set compliments what they have already have.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks know that they need a great defender. We've had a player like Kaminsky and tho it's a nice piece the key piece is to have that Rim Protector and PnR stuffer that we lacked. A kid like WCS could make the entire defense that much better when you add in Galloway and Thanasis you can put a really good group of defenders on the floor to help our scorers.

Someone has to score lol

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:you don't even talk about defense. Its irrelevant to you?

Its irrelevant to you that a 7-1 240 pound junior had 2 points and 5 rebounds in a final four game. If I was a GM Id ask him hey Willie where were you in that title game--why cant you give us better than 1-4 when it counts? Why did Kamnisky get 20-11? You were the experienced player out there--how can I rely on you--you let your teammates down.

He is not a focal point of the offense.

based on that assessment, maybe based on the final game, he should drop to the 2nd round.

Comparing him to kaminsky is silly. Kaminsky can't defend and WCS can't score.

And, we both know that WCS goes higher than kaminsky.

That will be close. I think IF Kaminsky drops to 8 he wont get past it.

stein is not getting passed 6.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks know that they need a great defender. We've had a player like Kaminsky and tho it's a nice piece the key piece is to have that Rim Protector and PnR stuffer that we lacked. A kid like WCS could make the entire defense that much better when you add in Galloway and Thanasis you can put a really good group of defenders on the floor to help our scorers.

Someone has to score lol

The Knicks would have scoring. You could go WCS, Monroe, Melo, Shved and Galloway. The offense creates most of the scoring opportunities in this offense. As long as WCS is moving and in the flow of the offense he'll have scoring opportunities. It's hard to say just how effective he can be but with work he has a chance to be able to be a competent part of the offense.

Ouch Willie Stein and Monroe will clog the paint up together. NO.

callmened wrote:i think his potential upside is a tyson 2.0 or djordan 2.0. he provides defense (esp against the pnr). little offense but by diving on pnr he creates spacing. hes the new prototypical bigman. with that said, i wouldnt use my #4 pick on him. i dont think hell ever be a franchise player

I know that #4 is pretty high for a player like Stein, but It also depends on how you view his impact on the team. A player like WCS could impact the team with more wins. Just making that impact on the teams overall defense. A couple of blocks, a steal, altered shots and stuffed PnR's. It all adds up over the course of a game and it's something this team needs desperately. We paid Tyson $14 Mil to do pretty much that and WCS would do it for a lot less and with a bit more upside. People tend to undervalue Defensive Talent and Sometimes overvalue Offensive talent.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:i think his potential upside is a tyson 2.0 or djordan 2.0. he provides defense (esp against the pnr). little offense but by diving on pnr he creates spacing. hes the new prototypical bigman. with that said, i wouldnt use my #4 pick on him. i dont think hell ever be a franchise player

Yeah, that's the absolute best case scenario and it's improbable. If it does happen, he's probably many years away from it. If we are keeping Melo, then I was hoping the pick would get us a player who would be high impact while Melo was still in his prime. I think it's hard to justify taking him top 10 let alone top 4 though.

after the top 3, nobody really excites me.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I was thinking of creating a thread on WCS as well. Good job.

I will say this about the idea of drafting him. He's a weapon if your intention is to build an elite defense. What Stein can do in the NBA is cover ground and shut down PnR which is a HUGE plus in the NBA right now. You can do a lot with a very rangy big who can protect the paint. I can understand Phil wanting this guy in the middle of his defense despite not having great offense, he's not as bad as some are making him out to be. Stein actually has some limited offensive ability. I think he can be put to use in the Triangle. Phil has had non scoring bigs before. I think he's a bit more useful than Tyson on offense. The plus is that he covers so much ground on D that it makes everyone else better and the Knicks need that.

Phil has made it clear he wants to build a much better defensive team and there are very few options for him to be able to do that. He can find scoring but legit elite defenders like WCS would be much harder to get. I could live with the pick if it came to that. I would guess that there would likely be a trade involved. I'm not sure Phil would take Stein at 4, but if he did I could live with the pick. I think it's a tough sell but once he was here and doing his thing people would realize why Phil went that way.

Maybe 20 years ago. There is a place for Willie Stein but his defensive value in the modern NBA is limited with teams taking 25 3's a game. Lets go to GS for example--his man would be Andrew Bogut--now what would his value be there? Stop Bogut from scoring 8 points to 6?

Dear Lord Briggs for a guy who likes to pat himself on the back for being a hall of fame scout -- you are missing the big point with WCS.

The # thing teams worry about with centers in todays game is there ability to guard the pick and roll. In fact - against a team like GS -- WCS value escalates because he has the ability to guard 5 positions in some instances. He may not be perfect but his size/length/feet would allow him to at the very least effect perimeter 3-point shooters. Protecting the rim is another item teams tend to think about but maybe your scouting doesn't factor that in when looking at guys like Big Frank.