Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

The Triangle is not one dimentional and nor is Phil or any great coach not known to adapt.
Phil is not coaching but lets say his influence is heavy.
If Jason smith is the primary threat the team is not worthy of these key strokes.
Tweets if by JR or Phil are not significant. JVG has become an annoyance on the TV. Pontificating to create some on air tension/drama is his thing.
Don't worry about phil. The great ones adapt.

Phil is not great at his current position, there's not a shred of evidence that suggest that, he's not even okay at it, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

He maybe a great coach (and even that's arguable considering the talent he always had)but please stop tooting this guys horn, like he's build championship teams like FORD builds cars

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

The Triangle is not one dimentional and nor is Phil or any great coach not known to adapt.
Phil is not coaching but lets say his influence is heavy.
If Jason smith is the primary threat the team is not worthy of these key strokes.
Tweets if by JR or Phil are not significant. JVG has become an annoyance on the TV. Pontificating to create some on air tension/drama is his thing.
Don't worry about phil. The great ones adapt.

Phil is not great at his current position, there's not a shred of evidence that suggest that, he's not even okay at it, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

He maybe a great coach (and even that's arguable considering the talent he always had)but please stop tooting this guys horn, like he's build championship teams like FORD builds cars

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

The Triangle is not one dimentional and nor is Phil or any great coach not known to adapt.
Phil is not coaching but lets say his influence is heavy.
If Jason smith is the primary threat the team is not worthy of these key strokes.
Tweets if by JR or Phil are not significant. JVG has become an annoyance on the TV. Pontificating to create some on air tension/drama is his thing.
Don't worry about phil. The great ones adapt.

Phil is not great at his current position, there's not a shred of evidence that suggest that, he's not even okay at it, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

He maybe a great coach (and even that's arguable considering the talent he always had)but please stop tooting this guys horn, like he's build championship teams like FORD builds cars

Question his coaching cuz he had great players? Did Auerbach? Pop? Riley?
Only 5 coaches in the history of the game have won more than 2!
Of them, only three won with different teams. Riles and Alex Hannum won ONE with another team.

How many times did Jordan and Pippin go to the finals before Phil took over? None.
How many coaches won titles without great players?
How many coaches didn't win titles with great players?
How many Championships did Kobe win before phil?

You want to argue his presidential record after one season and call him a bust, silly as it might be it is at least valid. To question him as a coach is idiotic!
How good was Any coach without its star players!

Paul Westhead won a title with LA's showtime before he got the gig.

You just called him a great one with one horrible embarrassing season under his belt as the boss, so how silly is that.

I said it's arguable, like almost all opinions when it comes to sport figures.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

The Triangle is not one dimentional and nor is Phil or any great coach not known to adapt.
Phil is not coaching but lets say his influence is heavy.
If Jason smith is the primary threat the team is not worthy of these key strokes.
Tweets if by JR or Phil are not significant. JVG has become an annoyance on the TV. Pontificating to create some on air tension/drama is his thing.
Don't worry about phil. The great ones adapt.

Phil is not great at his current position, there's not a shred of evidence that suggest that, he's not even okay at it, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

He maybe a great coach (and even that's arguable considering the talent he always had)but please stop tooting this guys horn, like he's build championship teams like FORD builds cars

How do you know??? Let's just get thru tonight and see where we'll be drafting. I Like that Phil has an actual blueprint for how to structure an NBA team. You aren't really addressing that point with your negative take on Phil. He hasn't been here long enough to prove anything and surely that goes positive or negative. We're still watching him build the house and you're criticizing the way he's pouring the concrete. No one is saying phil is a great GM. We don't know what he is yet. What we're expressing confidence in is his philosophy on team construction and how teams win. Phil has seen the process up close for over 30 years and you're talking like he just walked into the job with no clue. He's been around the best that ever did this. Jerry West, Jerry Krause, Red Holzman etc. Phil isn't a man we need to worry about. You have no reason to be as critical of Phil as you've been IMO.

You are who you are until proven otherwise. If we made the playoffs, perhaps the 2nd round, do you think anybody would be questioning him. No, they would be looking forward (not that we aren't now) to the off season with a lot more confidence, knowing we got a guy that know what the hell he's doing.

You can't praise him as a Guru after what he put together in his first yr, in fact it's quite frighting. If we don't get pick 1 or 2, the suspect label will still be on phils tee shirts

SupremeCommander wrote:as much as I love JVG, every time he ran his mouth when he coach he Phil owned him. straight up owned him. JVG probably can't get over that

Chicago had a better team. I think Phil was a great coach but if JVG coaches Chicago and Phil coaches the Knicks I'm not convinced the Knicks win.

JamesLin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Vmart wrote:Says the man with no head coaching or GM job and no Championships. What does JVG know about offense anyways.

the guy took a pretty sh1tty team to the finals.

JVG is awesome ... lets not sh1t on him because he touched a nerve.

Speak for yourself the Knicks were loaded and underachieving until the playoffs. If he had an ounce of offensive coaching ability the Knicks wouldn't have struggled as much.

Sorry Vmart, but I'm with mreinman on this.. JVG made a mediocre team to the finals.. we were #8 seed that shouldn't be there from beginning of the season... without offense, that can't be done.. just can't.

JVG is awesome, but he is also a crappy offensive coach and he did a suspect job coaching that finals club during the regular season. Not playing Camby because he missed Oak? Failing to integrate Spree into the offense. A case can be made that JVG coached a good team into mediocrity during the regular season that year.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mreinman, Silver foot? Jeez, don't know where you get your Phil hate from.

Basically you prefer we follow the metrics over everything? First and foremost these final four teams play good defense.
Nobody said the 3pt shot was useless, but history is on Phils side.
GS should go to its strenght and play the type of ball they are. When Phx tried it with its high octane high volume MDA speed ball they got close, but not good enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs.
Did they lack the defense? You bet!
GS plays good defense and has perhaps two of the best shooters in the game.

Nix loves Phil. Why is that so wrong?

I don't hate Phil. I am rooting for him.

I don't like the old school stupidity and the tweeting like a bone head is part of it.

There is a lot more to the game then metrics but choosing to simply ignoring or dismissing any of it because of ego and a marriage to a system seems silly.

We learn more and more every year, use the data and don't be above it.

You can't win by being one dimensional at anything.

You need a mixture of highly efficient shots and that is first, getting to the line, second, creating good looks at the rim, third, get good looks at threes.

STAY AWAY FROM LONG 2'S unless you exhausted all other avenues and/or the shot clock is winding down.

Watching the way Jason Smith was allowed to take 20 footer after 20 footer as if it was a first option shot and a designed play makes me think that perhaps Phil is ok with this and this will be in his offense next season.

Can I be wrong and he will do away with those shots? Sure. Unfortunately, I fear that Phil may need to learn the hard way.

Is phil much smarter then me? You? All of us? Probably is but that does not mean that he will change his antiquated ways.

The Triangle is not one dimentional and nor is Phil or any great coach not known to adapt.
Phil is not coaching but lets say his influence is heavy.
If Jason smith is the primary threat the team is not worthy of these key strokes.
Tweets if by JR or Phil are not significant. JVG has become an annoyance on the TV. Pontificating to create some on air tension/drama is his thing.
Don't worry about phil. The great ones adapt.

Phil is not great at his current position, there's not a shred of evidence that suggest that, he's not even okay at it, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

He maybe a great coach (and even that's arguable considering the talent he always had)but please stop tooting this guys horn, like he's build championship teams like FORD builds cars

How do you know??? Let's just get thru tonight and see where we'll be drafting. I Like that Phil has an actual blueprint for how to structure an NBA team. You aren't really addressing that point with your negative take on Phil. He hasn't been here long enough to prove anything and surely that goes positive or negative. We're still watching him build the house and you're criticizing the way he's pouring the concrete. No one is saying phil is a great GM. We don't know what he is yet. What we're expressing confidence in is his philosophy on team construction and how teams win. Phil has seen the process up close for over 30 years and you're talking like he just walked into the job with no clue. He's been around the best that ever did this. Jerry West, Jerry Krause, Red Holzman etc. Phil isn't a man we need to worry about. You have no reason to be as critical of Phil as you've been IMO.

You are who you are until proven otherwise. If we made the playoffs, perhaps the 2nd round, do you think anybody would be questioning him. No, they would be looking forward (not that we aren't now) to the off season with a lot more confidence, knowing we got a guy that know what the hell he's doing.

You can't praise him as a Guru after what he put together in his first yr, in fact it's quite frighting. If we don't get pick 1 or 2, the suspect label will still be on phils tee shirts

That's the thing. Phil does know what he's doing. You're putting all this weight on his 1st year when it was never going to be his best shot to get a lot done. He was severely limited in his options to improve the team in addition to being new to the job, the team and needing to clean up the mess and establish a new culture. The fact that the team failed to launch is his fault but also it wasn't totally on him since he inherited a lot of real issues that he couldn't fix as much as he had hoped in year one.

IMO that has no bearing on his overall plan to improve the team. Which was always going to come down to this off season. We may not have originally planned to have this high pick, but Free Agency was always going to be huge for this team. Like I said, you're judging the entire building before the concrete foundation is even dry.

yes ... that is what we do as fans and bystanders. We judge based on what we have seen so far.

If while pouring a foundation, you spill it 12 times and then it looks like you poured it crooked .......

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's not so much about excuses, but trying to also be reasonable in judging the whole situation. If you're going to simply look at things black and white, up and down and there's no sense of perspective and circumstances then it's easy to just bash Phil and Fish and convince yourself that they aren't any good. If Jerry Krause had done that with Phil when he first tried to bring him in, he would've missed out on a great coach. Jerry could see the Diamond in the rough and was willing to give him a chance. Some people lack the ability to project and see deeper than the surface.

i dont think thats entirely fair. Most fans like phil including myself BUT he still has a lot to prove as a GM. Hopefully he does a great job, we will see

You may be balanced in your take on Phil but not everyone is and that's who i'm talking about. I'm not talking about going on blind faith. I'm basing my patience on his stated principles, plans and goals for the team. Phil isn't just winging it. He actually has very well laid out roles he's looking to fill. Sometimes players handle their role and sometimes they don't but the underlying principle behind why Phil is looking to build the team a certain way is sound.

So when I read people bashing him based on just this 1st year, IMO they aren't paying enough attention to what he's actually trying to achieve. I can see it clearly from what he's expressed he's looking to do. The hard part is actually being able to find the right players to get the job done. Hopefully we get some help with the Lottery and can take it from there. This summer and next will be the best opportunities for Phil to build this team. Last summer was not his best shot to do that.