mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:tomorrow nights game will be epic and one of the most exciting games for me in a long time.

LAC will be favorites but if Houston can find a way to steal this one then .... what a game 7!

seems like everything will rely on Trevor Ariza. How scary is that?

I still think LAC is in the driver's seat and Houston is still mentally fragile...Pressure will definitely be on LAC to close it out...I want to see the approach to the next game...Let's see if Doc make the adjustment..LAC can't let them leave LA with a win..

I agree. LAC can't lose this game. It will be an epic disaster.

Houston is certainly more fragile then LAC. The Clippers are veterans led by CP3.

Harden is still only 25 (yet he is playing off the charts, especially for being only 25)
Howard is fragile and hard to rely on with his offense ... his defense has been good
Ariza is the key ... scary

the rest of them are a bunch of journeyman / stiffs.

the clippers have zero excuse to lose the next game.

I wouldn't say Harden has been off the charts...Houston needs him to score around 30 a game...Redick, surprisingly, has done a good job on him...Harden shouldn't let a guy like Redick control him as he has during this series...Harden needs to diversify his game...I hope he doesn't..

nobody plays great every game. A triple double is diversifying ...

He should not NEED to score 30 a game, he needs others to shoulder the load too

this playoffs:

26.6 PPG
8.5 assists per game!!
4.9 rebounds (high for a guard)
95% FT!!
9.6 FTA per game

if this is not diversified (FOR A 25 Year old), then I don't know what is.

I don't understand the standard that you are holding him to??

his TS (though I know that you don't care for it) is an insane 65% which is mega mega star like (and he is not nearly hot from the floor).

Diversify his offense, meaning another move than going left or arm foul move...He should not need to score near 30 but that's how they won all year..

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:tomorrow nights game will be epic and one of the most exciting games for me in a long time.

LAC will be favorites but if Houston can find a way to steal this one then .... what a game 7!

seems like everything will rely on Trevor Ariza. How scary is that?

I still think LAC is in the driver's seat and Houston is still mentally fragile...Pressure will definitely be on LAC to close it out...I want to see the approach to the next game...Let's see if Doc make the adjustment..LAC can't let them leave LA with a win..

I agree. LAC can't lose this game. It will be an epic disaster.

Houston is certainly more fragile then LAC. The Clippers are veterans led by CP3.

Harden is still only 25 (yet he is playing off the charts, especially for being only 25)
Howard is fragile and hard to rely on with his offense ... his defense has been good
Ariza is the key ... scary

the rest of them are a bunch of journeyman / stiffs.

the clippers have zero excuse to lose the next game.

I wouldn't say Harden has been off the charts...Houston needs him to score around 30 a game...Redick, surprisingly, has done a good job on him...Harden shouldn't let a guy like Redick control him as he has during this series...Harden needs to diversify his game...I hope he doesn't..

nobody plays great every game. A triple double is diversifying ...

He should not NEED to score 30 a game, he needs others to shoulder the load too

this playoffs:

26.6 PPG
8.5 assists per game!!
4.9 rebounds (high for a guard)
95% FT!!
9.6 FTA per game

if this is not diversified (FOR A 25 Year old), then I don't know what is.

I don't understand the standard that you are holding him to??

his TS (though I know that you don't care for it) is an insane 65% which is mega mega star like (and he is not nearly hot from the floor).

Diversify his offense, meaning another move than going left or arm foul move...He should not need to score near 30 but that's how they won all year..

He could add a post game ... Jordan did it, Lebron did it, KD NEEDS to do it

He may need to score 30 to win being that houston has a weak cast. That is not his fault.

He is still averaging crazy assist numbers.

He also knows how to get fouls (like manu). It does work. And, he got DJ in very early foul trouble last night.

Everyone needs to add to their game to win. But, looking at his numbers, they are fantastic.

He can also improve his defense. He has definitely improved here but he can do more.

The only number to worry about is 3-2...No one will care about TS% when he is going home, except you...He needs to increase his scoring because no one else can on his team...

Jordan is negating what Harden is capable of doing vs most teams and the combination of Blake Griffen and JOrdan togehter is just too much for Houston to contest with the improvements of Blake's all round game especially his FT and mid range shot, in addition to his rebounding, ability to facilitate/post and finish with contact

Reddick's defense has been very good with JOrdan helping, they took a page out of Golden State on how to defend Harden, though they are missing talents such as

Beverely/DMO that would help Houston much, though I still think the coaching staff in Houston is not very good

To continue to win and improve for years to come,
Blake needs to also assert himself more in the post rather than relying in the mid range game and floor spacing that the shooters provide, with Jordan's abiilty to finish/grab OFF boards

Chris Paul and Doc Rivers have done a great job in developing a culture change along with DEFENSE/REBOUNDING/FLOOR SPACING in the past couple of seasons especially for Blake Griffen and Jordan's improvements
Rivers will have to get a quality backup PG, along with a SF for backup as Matt Barnes is nearing the end of his career
Crawford no longer gets the touches he needs to go 1v1 with consistency that is ISO bball, poor defense, and mastering poor shot making, with his son, likely to take his spot as a cheaper option with a team option on Crawford, while resigning Jordan no matter what as any other player will be a downgrade and need to develop chemistry that they already have

Shved could be a realistic target for a backup PG/SG as well, while CLippers have 0 draft pick this summer, though could possibly purchase a mid to late 2nd rounder

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:tomorrow nights game will be epic and one of the most exciting games for me in a long time.

LAC will be favorites but if Houston can find a way to steal this one then .... what a game 7!

seems like everything will rely on Trevor Ariza. How scary is that?

I still think LAC is in the driver's seat and Houston is still mentally fragile...Pressure will definitely be on LAC to close it out...I want to see the approach to the next game...Let's see if Doc make the adjustment..LAC can't let them leave LA with a win..

I agree. LAC can't lose this game. It will be an epic disaster.

Houston is certainly more fragile then LAC. The Clippers are veterans led by CP3.

Harden is still only 25 (yet he is playing off the charts, especially for being only 25)
Howard is fragile and hard to rely on with his offense ... his defense has been good
Ariza is the key ... scary

the rest of them are a bunch of journeyman / stiffs.

the clippers have zero excuse to lose the next game.

I wouldn't say Harden has been off the charts...Houston needs him to score around 30 a game...Redick, surprisingly, has done a good job on him...Harden shouldn't let a guy like Redick control him as he has during this series...Harden needs to diversify his game...I hope he doesn't..

nobody plays great every game. A triple double is diversifying ...

He should not NEED to score 30 a game, he needs others to shoulder the load too

this playoffs:

26.6 PPG
8.5 assists per game!!
4.9 rebounds (high for a guard)
95% FT!!
9.6 FTA per game

if this is not diversified (FOR A 25 Year old), then I don't know what is.

I don't understand the standard that you are holding him to??

his TS (though I know that you don't care for it) is an insane 65% which is mega mega star like (and he is not nearly hot from the floor).

Diversify his offense, meaning another move than going left or arm foul move...He should not need to score near 30 but that's how they won all year..

He could add a post game ... Jordan did it, Lebron did it, KD NEEDS to do it

He may need to score 30 to win being that houston has a weak cast. That is not his fault.

He is still averaging crazy assist numbers.

He also knows how to get fouls (like manu). It does work. And, he got DJ in very early foul trouble last night.

Everyone needs to add to their game to win. But, looking at his numbers, they are fantastic.

He can also improve his defense. He has definitely improved here but he can do more.

The only number to worry about is 3-2...No one will care about TS% when he is going home, except you...He needs to increase his scoring because no one else can on his team...

his TS will be looked at for years just like everything else.

we agree that he needs to carry his team because no one else will. But, he is doing a great job at it.

what boggles my mind is that you excuse Melo (not just excuse him but praise him and say how great he was) for going home very early and playing terrible (because nobody else stepped up), yet Harden is not doing enough??

Again, why the different standard? Seriously, I don't get it at all.

PPG (melo last playoffs vs harden this year):
Melo 28.8 (minutes 40)
Harden 26.6 (minutes 36)

Assists:
Harden 8.5
Melo 1.6

Rebounds:
Melo 6.6
Harden 4.9

FTA:
Harden 9.6 (95%)
Melo 7.3 (88%

TS:
Harden 65! (freaky)
Melo 49.7 (TERRIBLE)

you are being so shockingly biased ... whats the deal?

plug in melo for harden and Houston probably loses 40-45 games and doesn't even make the playoffs.

Yeah that's real funny...Throw up the Clippers or Redick defensively against Harden and Indiana with Paul George/Lance Stevenson and West guarding/doubling Melo..But this isn't about Melo, we have the entire season to scrutinize Melo, let's save some ammo...Harden in on a Championship caliber team with 2 stud players and their flaws has been exposed in the playoffs...Houston can't come into next season with the same line up or style of play..They have to do things differently..They are too reliant on Harden having the ball in his hands..Harden can't be the guy with the ball because he can be stopped and taken out of the game in stretches..But you don't have to believe me, they are already writing articles about it...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463074-james-hardens-heroics-aside-rockets-playoff-fate-may-have-been-set-long-ago

The Rockets had enough effort to deliver the predictable pushback Tuesday on their first night at death's door in the NBA playoffs, beating a visiting Los Angeles Clippers team due for a letdown, 124-103, to avoid Game 5 elimination.

But the feel of the series did not change: The Clippers have more ways to win games, and they should eliminate the Rockets in Game 6 Thursday back at Staples Center.

Harden was fantastic in Game 5, posting his first playoff triple-double despite fighting the flu. It was a deserved occasion to celebrate him perhaps for the last time this season because he has carried an inordinate amount of the Rockets' load.

That's sort of the problem, though.

The Rockets look like the consummate lose-in-the-second-round team because they are so reliant on Harden.

And his magic is the sort that is more bewildering to opponents in the regular season than in the playoffs.

It's not unlike how the first incarnation of Mike D'Antoni's Phoenix Suns was overwhelming to face in regular-season games because no opponent could be prepared for the pace and attack the Suns brought that was so totally different from other teams.

There's no one quite like Harden in the league, and when you're only facing him during a packed schedule filled with all sorts of other opponents, no one is truly ready to stop him.

Harden is flat-out brilliant at sensing when any defender's arms are out of position for him to move into for contact for a foul—and that's beyond the simple lazy reaching that often passes for regular-season-level help defense.

So he makes his crafty lefty moves, the whistles follow, and so do a lot of regular-season victories.

In a playoff series, though, players truly study scouting reports and actually listen to what coaches tell them. And if you have a paint protector of DeAndre Jordan's caliber, then you can preach to your perimeter defenders just to be solid and do their best to keep their hands away from Harden's body. You can force him to settle for jumpers with Jordan lying in wait.

That's how the Clippers can get away with using J.J. Redick as the primary defender on Harden. Whereas high-intensity Matt Barnes can't resist doing whatever he can, however he can, Redick has largely stayed solid and just been in the way.

Harden can still create and make shots—watching him drill step-back jumpers in King of the Hill one-on-one games against Kevin Durant and Paul George after USA Basketball practices in Las Vegas last summer was captivating—but the easier path to victory for him is the free-throw parade.

It is also the root of the Rockets' aggressiveness as a team.

To Harden's credit, he committed to that approach in Game 5, and it worked. Jordan got in early foul trouble, with Clippers coach Doc Rivers explaining to reporters postgame: "He was just trying to cover up for a lot of our mistakes. To me, we did a poor job of protecting DeAndre."

The Clippers basically offered up their regular-season level of defense Tuesday night—not far from the Dallas Mavericks' deplorable first-round level of defense that Harden shredded.

The Clippers were inconsistent with both help and rotations Tuesday; Chris Paul and Barnes repeatedly got out of position with mindless double-teams, leaving Jason Terry and Trevor Ariza to nail open threes even when Harden wasn't the one creating.

It was Harden's swagger, though, that the Rockets rode to a win, much in the same way they were able to in the regular season despite Dwight Howard's frequent absences as he struggled with a right knee problem.

As for Howard, he has been active in the playoffs, but it's impossible to rank him as one of the league's top 10 players the way Houston general manager Daryl Morey promotes when Howard doesn't give his team a clear way to win—or specific swagger.

The best that Howard gives the Rockets is excellent defense that can trigger transition offense, but that is hardly dominance. Without injured perimeter pest Patrick Beverley, the Rockets defense isn't the same—and obviously, it isn't as good as when the group can get set behind countless Harden free-throw attempts.

Behind Howard, the likes of Josh Smith, Ariza and Terry sometimes make plays and sometimes don't. The Rockets aren't a consistent enough three-point shooting team to make opponents pay for selling out with traps of Harden, which is why Kevin McHale resorted to moving Harden off the ball some to no avail in Game 4.

Harden is averaging 5.4 turnovers in the series. McHale was so desperate for more offensive playmaking in Game 5 that he moved Smith into the starting lineup because Smith is a decent passer—sometimes.

Things could have been different had Morey been able to secure one signature last July, when the Rockets were so close to adding Chris Bosh to their locker room—not only to offer a poised, multifaceted weapon, but to give the team a swagger other than Harden's.

Bosh proved on Miami's title teams that he is a uniquely powerful connector, someone who understands the importance of sacrifice and teamwork. That is its own kind of confidence, and it's definitely one the Rockets lack.

People can criticize Morey for dumping guys such as Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin, both of whom would've helped a lot in this series, to bid for Bosh—and letting Chandler Parsons become a free agent and then go. They can try to pigeonhole Morey as an analytics guy misunderstanding the importance of human character by investing in Harden and Howard, two suspect team leaders.

But Morey completely comprehended how much more Bosh would've offered this team in sheer talent and as a uniting force. And it was looking awfully good for Houston to have Bosh and Parsons with Harden and Howard until Pat Riley sold Bosh on anchoring the Heat's post-LeBron James rebuild (and threw more money at Bosh than Morey could offer).

Without Bosh and Parsons, Morey still saw the Rockets as a top-four team in the Western Conference—and Harden made good on that. Houston even managed the No. 2 seed, which is why there's still the semblance of possibility the Rockets could advance if they steal Game 6 from the Clippers to set up a Game 7 in Houston.

It hardly looks likely, but Morey foresaw that way back in July in taking a big swing that resulted in a home run until Riley leaped over the fence to bring Bosh back.

It has still been a nice season for Houston fans.

Yet that was the real day the Rockets lost their swagger.

mreinman wrote:That article was great and quite fair, however, you started with this which wrong and completely disputed in the article

"Harden is on a Championship caliber team with 2 stud players"

Houston is NOT a championship team. Maybe if they got Bosh they would have been. They are relying on freakin Josh Smith to be their savior? Jason terry? Pablo?

C'mon ... we all know that they are very flawed and you seem to know this but blame hardens Usage ... The team just lacks formidable players. The article was spot on about Howard too.

Its not just Redick who is going at him, he is just running off the line and DJ and others are just swarming and waiting in hopes of forcing the other stiffs to beat them.

Have they slowed him down? A bit - as far as forcing him to give up the ball. His efficiency is better than in the regular season (most people (like dk) expected this to dive in the post season, especially with everyone concentrating on him).

Knocking the team is one thing ... you have been coming at Harden pretty hard (while he has been superman and done everything he could) and it makes no sense (and that is where the Melo comparison makes it look a bit ridiculous)

The point of what I have been saying all along is that you can't win with the ball in Harden's hand all game...It kills the flow of the offense and eveyone else is a spot up shooter..He isn't a catch and shoot guy either..You keep talking efficiency and I don't get it..Is it not about wins and rings??..You talk like this is about Harden getting off and achieving your efficiency goals is a victory in your mind...

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:That article was great and quite fair, however, you started with this which wrong and completely disputed in the article

"Harden is on a Championship caliber team with 2 stud players"

Houston is NOT a championship team. Maybe if they got Bosh they would have been. They are relying on freakin Josh Smith to be their savior? Jason terry? Pablo?

C'mon ... we all know that they are very flawed and you seem to know this but blame hardens Usage ... The team just lacks formidable players. The article was spot on about Howard too.

Its not just Redick who is going at him, he is just running off the line and DJ and others are just swarming and waiting in hopes of forcing the other stiffs to beat them.

Have they slowed him down? A bit - as far as forcing him to give up the ball. His efficiency is better than in the regular season (most people (like dk) expected this to dive in the post season, especially with everyone concentrating on him).

Knocking the team is one thing ... you have been coming at Harden pretty hard (while he has been superman and done everything he could) and it makes no sense (and that is where the Melo comparison makes it look a bit ridiculous)

The point of what I have been saying all along is that you can't win with the ball in Harden's hand all game...It kills the flow of the offense and eveyone else is a spot up shooter..He isn't a catch and shoot guy either..You keep talking efficiency and I don't get it..Is it not about wins and rings??..You talk like this is about Harden getting off and if he does it's a victory in your mind...

no ... I am disputing unfair labeling that you have been making about him for a while. You seem to be lightening up on that a bit now but you have gone at him hard and I called it out (and you never really addressed it, but skirted the issue)

Look at his USG : AST rate, the guy does give up the ball. 8.5 freakin assists a game in this series!

I come back to Melo to argue in context ...

"Melo should not pass the ball to the other stinkers and he should shoot and shoot and hope he wins a war of attrition"

why the double standard?

Is Houston flawed? They definitely are.
Is it a bit exposed? Of course ... they have many holes and duds and only one top notch player.

I like when an argument is backed up by data ...

I don't like when some just pick and choose when to apply x to y player just because.

My data is 3-2, what's yours??? Usage or TS%???..And DHow is very much a top notch player..

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:That article was great and quite fair, however, you started with this which wrong and completely disputed in the article

"Harden is on a Championship caliber team with 2 stud players"

Houston is NOT a championship team. Maybe if they got Bosh they would have been. They are relying on freakin Josh Smith to be their savior? Jason terry? Pablo?

C'mon ... we all know that they are very flawed and you seem to know this but blame hardens Usage ... The team just lacks formidable players. The article was spot on about Howard too.

Its not just Redick who is going at him, he is just running off the line and DJ and others are just swarming and waiting in hopes of forcing the other stiffs to beat them.

Have they slowed him down? A bit - as far as forcing him to give up the ball. His efficiency is better than in the regular season (most people (like dk) expected this to dive in the post season, especially with everyone concentrating on him).

Knocking the team is one thing ... you have been coming at Harden pretty hard (while he has been superman and done everything he could) and it makes no sense (and that is where the Melo comparison makes it look a bit ridiculous)

The point of what I have been saying all along is that you can't win with the ball in Harden's hand all game...It kills the flow of the offense and eveyone else is a spot up shooter..He isn't a catch and shoot guy either..You keep talking efficiency and I don't get it..Is it not about wins and rings??..You talk like this is about Harden getting off and if he does it's a victory in your mind...

no ... I am disputing unfair labeling that you have been making about him for a while. You seem to be lightening up on that a bit now but you have gone at him hard and I called it out (and you never really addressed it, but skirted the issue)

Look at his USG : AST rate, the guy does give up the ball. 8.5 freakin assists a game in this series!

I come back to Melo to argue in context ...

"Melo should not pass the ball to the other stinkers and he should shoot and shoot and hope he wins a war of attrition"

why the double standard?

Is Houston flawed? They definitely are.
Is it a bit exposed? Of course ... they have many holes and duds and only one top notch player.

I like when an argument is backed up by data ...

I don't like when some just pick and choose when to apply x to y player just because.

My data is 3-2, what's yours??? Usuage or TS%???

my data is a 4-2 loss to Indiana is ok but down 3-2 to LA is not.

who cares about 3-2 ... this is not about houston, this was about what Harden was doing wrong or could do better.

It was about your knocks on him specifically. Look at the game thread and how you called him out. You have a right to do that, just back it up.

M data is also Phil having 11 rings and knowing what's style of play creates Champions...

They are taking some of his shots away and forcing him to pass, what would you like him to do?

I think that I know your answer but just do not agree with it at all. You want him to jack em up as often as possible and hope to win the war of attrition.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:would you like him to take 10 more shots so that he can get to 30 points your conventional way? Or should he keep passing the ball instead of forcing up bad shots just to get to 30 points?

They are taking some of his shots away and forcing him to pass, what would you like him to do?

I think that I know your answer but just do not agree with it at all. You want him to jack em up as often as possible and hope to win the war of attrition.

If he doesn't take more shots they will lose...No one else has the capability to do that on his team..What's the important thing here? his TS% or winning the game and moving on??..

maybe now we hit the core.

I don't think that he should take bad shots with the (TERRIBLE) excuse of "who else should shoot"

pass the ball to the open man, don't take stupid shots, other guys will have to step up. If they do, like last night, then great. If they don't then they may lose.

I think that him going 10 for 30 (like Melo did against indiana) is not acceptable and will hurt the rockets far more than help them.

Hit the open man and play basketball.

Most people don't believe they have the talent to go in there tomorrow and win ... I predict a loss and don't have confidence that the supporting cast will step up like they did last night .... but lets see