CrushAlot wrote:^^^^I like the d league list. Any word on what is going on with Sanchez? He did finally go to Puerto Rico. I also think Lavoy Allen will be a bargain.

Not that I know off, I think he was really pissed that we didn't utilize our empty spots for him, as he has done he fits in the system with his ability to POST/FACILITATE/SCORE/REBOUND/Penetrate off the dribble and finish if contested for his ability to spread the floor for 3pters like AB and a pump fake, he is more NBA ready than many on our roster...

Had we called up him, even in the last week, it would count as his first year, allowing him to make about 1m on his 2nd year *though it would really be his first and he already a late bloomer with a couple of years left before he will physically decline*

Langston Galloway
Early/Lance Thomas
Acey/Lou Amundson/Travis Wear

I really like Orlando Sanchez and think he fits in the Triangle with his skill set better than the NCAA and would compare his skill set/skills/size to Jared Sullinger and a younger Channing Frye
Having Thanasis and Sanchez would be like having 2 early 2nd rounders and maybe even a 1st round rotation players that could continue to develop if given the opporutunity

I really like Lavoy Allen as well who would provide some shot blocking, mid range game, rebounding/defense 1v1 and team defense, that can still get better
If we can get him with Ajinicia and Orlando Sanchez at good contracts I would be content
I do like LA for the Triangle because I feel his skill set fits in the Triangle as well, with the CAP RISING a MAX for him is probably a huge discount already, rather than overpaying for Danny Green/DeMaRRe Carroll at about 10m to 12m and up for Carroll..
Yes, he isn't a leader, but he has a lot of skills that fit the triangle, along with the MID RANGE game, POST PRESENCE for mid range and deep post on 1v1, that is not a bad rebounder/shot blocker/defender that can play both PF and Center, I guess if we sign LA, we wouldn't need Ajinicia though I would like him if we can get him at about the FULL MLE with his continued development/ceiling at 7-2 with his combination of skills/athleticisim/mobility and improvements made this year while in practices with Anthony Davis which New Orleans have done a great job in developing from his rookie year with huge strides on OFF and DEFENSE

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is where analytics need to take a step back. Tobias is a good player and rated somewhat fairly. Hes nothing special and he gets hurt a lot. Hes played on a team that has avg 20 something wins and his stats have a hollowness about them.

I have wouldn't say he's nothing special. He's matchup nightmare from the forward spot and he's developing into one of the league's best scorers. He's scoring improvement s are even more impressive when you consider who he plays for and his defense has also impressed. The key thing with this dude is his age. He's only 23. The Atlanta Hawks have proven that you can get it done with two combo forwards in the lineup. All I'm saying is that he needs to be taken into consideration during free agency.

I agree. His biggest problem is that he gets injured quite a bit, but this kid is 23 years old and still getting better. Playing on the Magic with a team full of kids kind hurt him some as well. I don't think he's that number 1 guy and think if he played with Melo he'd be even better than he was with the Magic. They say they'll match any offer and probably will but that might be them just trying to scare teams from making any big offers for him. I would be happy with either one of Monroe or Harris and think both would fit in just fine once you fill out the rest of the team around them with players that make up for whatever either of them aren't as good at.

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is where analytics need to take a step back. Tobias is a good player and rated somewhat fairly. Hes nothing special and he gets hurt a lot. Hes played on a team that has avg 20 something wins and his stats have a hollowness about them.

He's only 22 years old. I don't think it's fair to judge his impact on a team to that extent. By age 25 or 26 when he's closer to his prime things could be a lot different. The talent is there.

You understand that the Knicks have 0/100 chance to get Tobias Harris right? Does anyone in the forum think other teams are spawning grounds to send the NY Knicks players for free?

there are reports Harris would like to come home. If Harris is offered a Parsons type deal do you think the Magic match?

The Magic have/will match any offer--no question about it.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is where analytics need to take a step back. Tobias is a good player and rated somewhat fairly. Hes nothing special and he gets hurt a lot. Hes played on a team that has avg 20 something wins and his stats have a hollowness about them.

He's only 22 years old. I don't think it's fair to judge his impact on a team to that extent. By age 25 or 26 when he's closer to his prime things could be a lot different. The talent is there.

You understand that the Knicks have 0/100 chance to get Tobias Harris right? Does anyone in the forum think other teams are spawning grounds to send the NY Knicks players for free?

there are reports Harris would like to come home. If Harris is offered a Parsons type deal do you think the Magic match?

The Magic have/will match any offer--no question about it.

Why do you talk in facts when you have no facts??

Well I guess if the Knicks were willing to give me their lottery pick Id do it. Otherwise why the heck would I give my premium asset away for a tad more salary?

He isn't a sure thing for Orlando to keep, they have enough young talent already, with draft picks this summer and the future as well, and they need veterans and more solid players to balance out their roster

yellowboy90 wrote:Looking over his def. player tracking data it looks like Tobias is at least an avg defender who struggles defending inside baskets.. I think he can continue to improve defending perimeter players as he matures. He also displays good movement skills on O.

Going back to the Shea article, another thing that stood out was how well Tobias did as a PnR ball handler., he scored on .85 ppp(league avg .79) in 150 possesions. Then they have him at 1.04 ppp in post ups on 105 possesions. That is league best.

Really interesting player.

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a rare instance where TripleThreat has actually listed who he thinks the Knicks should try to bring in. In other words he participated in the conversation. All we ever want is for people to participate and express their opinions but not to character assassinate each other.

Could you be any bigger of a POS troll?

You and Briggs and RonRon and the rest of your little clique don't get to decided what or what is not valid conversation or not on this board.

I've participated on all kinds of levels and discussed all kind of players over time on this board. If you don't read it or it doesn't fit your narrative or what you think is appropriate "contribution" that's on you.

This is what you and Briggs do, when challenged on your ideas and theories, most of which are out of line to any semblance of how the NBA actually works, you guys lash out and say "Well prove to me why you should post here/why your opinion should even be valid, give me your exhaustive list and justify why you are here to ME!"

It's arrogant, petty, childish and I have no doubt it drives actual participation away. Like I said before, you and Briggs and a few others might not like me and what I have to say, but you might like the participation of the 10-20 guys who see how you and Briggs condescend and belittle and try to bully people and troll them and say, why even bother.

I responded with some thoughts I had because I don't have a problem with H1And1 and he approached me in a civil manner. It wasn't some big swinging dick contest to validate why someone, anyone should be here in your eyes.

I don't care how much you and Briggs post, you guys are just like net negative NBA players. It looks like you are bringing something to the table but you are costing the team on the back end. It's like anything else in life, what you bring to the table is always going to be mitigated by what you cost everyone else overall.

When you talk about "participating in the conversation", do you ever wonder how many people out there don't because they don't want to get their balls busted by you and Briggs just for having their own opinions about the Knicks and just because they might differ from yours?

Funny, Troll on your real name, you are just asking to be banned, you can't even log in your real UK name to low blow contributers of this board for years, so who is the PUSS???

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is where analytics need to take a step back. Tobias is a good player and rated somewhat fairly. Hes nothing special and he gets hurt a lot. Hes played on a team that has avg 20 something wins and his stats have a hollowness about them.

He's only 22 years old. I don't think it's fair to judge his impact on a team to that extent. By age 25 or 26 when he's closer to his prime things could be a lot different. The talent is there.

You understand that the Knicks have 0/100 chance to get Tobias Harris right? Does anyone in the forum think other teams are spawning grounds to send the NY Knicks players for free?

there are reports Harris would like to come home. If Harris is offered a Parsons type deal do you think the Magic match?

The Magic have/will match any offer--no question about it.

Why do you talk in facts when you have no facts??

Well I guess if the Knicks were willing to give me their lottery pick Id do it. Otherwise why the heck would I give my premium asset away for a tad more salary?

A tad more salary?? T.Harris is making like 5 million so you think going from 5 mil to 12/15 mil is a tad more?? When i evaluate the Magic roster i see a team full of good young talent and in my opinion the best way for them to get that team to start winning would be to add veteran talent to the roster because they're so young at every position that a couple of vets is exactly what they need to help with the young kids. So how do you know that that's not what they want to do since it has been mentioned?? It would be tough to do that if they pay Tobias 12-15 million along with what C.Frye, V.Oladipo, N.Vucevic will command and then E.Payton and A.Gordon will need to be paid in a couple of years. I'm just saying that nobody knows what the Magic is thinking and what they'll do about T.Harris and they have a lot of young guys that will be wanting to get paid in the near future.

ny4--the salary cap is going to 109mm. Paying Tobias 14-15mm or whatever it is is chicken feed. Hes going to get it. I mean think--if you owned the Magic would you simply let Harris walk for nothing? Or at a MINIMUM would you sign him to a contract at a 71% discount and unload it for a premium 3 months later?

That depends on how i would be building my team.

callmened wrote:CrushAlot: i cant open the link...can you copy and paste for me? thanks

CrushAlot wrote:A writer from the Orlando Sentinel interviewed the author of the article on Harris. It is an interesting article. Not able to copy and paste it.
http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83497966/

Stats guru: Magic's Harris NBA's most underrated

Magic SF Tobias Harris' contract campaign as a restricted free agent has unwittingly picked up a new, ardent supporter.

He's Stephen Shea, 32, a New Hampshire mathematics professor who has become one of the top voices in sports analytics. Dallas Mavs owner Mark Cuban once hired him to crunch numbers.

In his blog on the website, "Basketball Analytics," Shea not only calls Harris "the most underrated player in the NBA," but writes, "Statistically, he stands among some of the game's biggest stars."

I have two reactions.

1) Wow.

2) Is Shea sure he has the right Tobias Harris?

If I'm Harris' agent, I print a copy of Shea's piece that's largely devoted to Tobias, edit in smiley faces and send it to every team.

And if I'm Tobias, I ship Prof. Shea a nice fruit basket. Or a Rolex.

Shea was interested in analyzing today's most versatile forwards — VFs he calls them — who can shoot 3s, drive, rebound and defend.

It's important to realize that he created the criteria to form his conclusion.

Shea writes in his blog, "This season, only six players averaged at least 15 points and 6 rebounds per game, while also shooting 35% (on at least two 3-point attempts per game.) Only six VFs met these minimum requirements."

Those players were LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh, Paul Millsap and Harris, according to Shea.

Harris averaged 17.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, 1.8 assists and shot 36 percent from 3-point land this season.

Brainy folks can make data dance and sing; we can (but won't) get into a debate on analytics vs. the traditional eye-test when evaluating players.

"The two approaches complement each other," Shea said by phone. "Analytics are there to give a different perspective."

For instance, Shea's selective analysis included forwards who took at least two 3s per game, so Blake Griffin was left out. He shot just 25 3s all season. I don't think anybody would rank Harris over Griffin.

Harris obviously isn't at the superstar level of LeBron and Durant, and he hasn't been an All-Star like Love, Bosh and Millsap.

Still, the Harris sample is impressive — and eye-opening.

Shea told me he also was surprised when he ran the numbers, which also reveal that Harris:

•Averaged 0.85 points per possession in 150 possessions as a pick-and-roll ball-handler – topping the league average of 0.79.

•Averaged 1.04 points per possession on 106 post-ups, making Harris the NBA's most efficient post-up player, better than Dwight Howard and Anthony Davis.

•Shot 38 percent on catch-and-shoot 3s.

"I started running through the numbers of the usual suspects, like LeBron James," said Shea, who earned a Ph.D. from Wesleyan University. "Draymond Green was on the list. Paul Millsap. Then Tobias Harris shows up."

Harris, 22, shows up unexpectedly because few notice rising-star stats on a lottery team.

Statistics on bad teams also can ring hollow. But Shea wonders how much better Harris might be if he played with more talented teammates, a legitimate rim protector and in a more efficient, floor-spacing offense — all fair assertions.

Shea said Harris qualified as merely a "capable" defender. Asked about Harris' overall weaknesses, Shea said, "Very little looks bad."

We'll see if the Magic bean counters agree with Shea's numbers game when the green flag drops for free agency July 1.