knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

he definitely has to make the playoffs. This upcoming years goal is basically this past seasons goal. if he fails twice with the same goal...he really needs to go, and he likely will.

I would imagine his goal is to build a solid foundation and create a winning culture for years to come. it's not so important to make the playoffs in the first couple of years rather than building a roster that can compete for a championship over multiple years down the line. apparently you don't seem to have the stomach for that type of transformation and would rather have immediate mediocre results at the risk of long term success

You do realize your post makes no sense, right? How exactly do you build a winning culture if you arent actually winning? making the playoffs doesnt equal mediocrity, it indicates progress. It's not really that complex.

I think the post makes sense. No trades effecting the future were made to chase the 8th seed like in the past. The roster was torn down to almost nothing to move out guys like JR, Shump, Felton, Tyson etc. in hopes of a better future. JR, Felton, and to a lesser extent Tyson are all being talked about today for their performances or behavior and the talk isn't positive. Shump is ok in Cleveland but he wasn't making it in NY. What happened needed to happen in my opinion but no other gm was ever given the power to pull the plug on the season. The Knicks are reported to be looking for a franchise talent in the draft that will play for them in NY for the next 12-15 years instead of looking to move the pick for a former star player coming off of a career threatening injury. The cap money that they have is supposed to be used on 2-3 players so it isn't a get this guy or bust plan. Positive things are happening with bringing in young guys and role players and the Knicks are finally attempting to use the d league as a developmental program. However, the process to go from tearing down the roster to competing for the ecf may take more than one or two years.

So you expect to compete for a title and dont make the playoffs in the years preceding that time? Phil wouldnt last if the team went multiple non playoff years. You cant build a winning culture without actually winning.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

he definitely has to make the playoffs. This upcoming years goal is basically this past seasons goal. if he fails twice with the same goal...he really needs to go, and he likely will.

I would imagine his goal is to build a solid foundation and create a winning culture for years to come. it's not so important to make the playoffs in the first couple of years rather than building a roster that can compete for a championship over multiple years down the line. apparently you don't seem to have the stomach for that type of transformation and would rather have immediate mediocre results at the risk of long term success

You do realize your post makes no sense, right? How exactly do you build a winning culture if you arent actually winning? making the playoffs doesnt equal mediocrity, it indicates progress. It's not really that complex.

I think the post makes sense. No trades effecting the future were made to chase the 8th seed like in the past. The roster was torn down to almost nothing to move out guys like JR, Shump, Felton, Tyson etc. in hopes of a better future. JR, Felton, and to a lesser extent Tyson are all being talked about today for their performances or behavior and the talk isn't positive. Shump is ok in Cleveland but he wasn't making it in NY. What happened needed to happen in my opinion but no other gm was ever given the power to pull the plug on the season. The Knicks are reported to be looking for a franchise talent in the draft that will play for them in NY for the next 12-15 years instead of looking to move the pick for a former star player coming off of a career threatening injury. The cap money that they have is supposed to be used on 2-3 players so it isn't a get this guy or bust plan. Positive things are happening with bringing in young guys and role players and the Knicks are finally attempting to use the d league as a developmental program. However, the process to go from tearing down the roster to competing for the ecf may take more than one or two years.

So you expect to compete for a title and dont make the playoffs in the years preceding that time? Phil wouldnt last if the team went multiple non playoff years. You cant build a winning culture without actually winning.

The Knicks could win 20 more games and not make the playoffs next year. I am missing why you think Phil would be gone. I don't think Dolan will fire Phil. Are you thinking Phil would want to leave the Knicks? He has put a lot of his own guys in place. I don't see him walking away from the Knicks.

knicks1248 wrote:I'm not saying they were all stars before they got here, but they were much better players. We can go all they way back to Eisley, who was at least solid in Utah, from that point on, it's been terribly inconsistent.

We really haven't had a consistent pg since Derek harper, Charlie ward and Chris childs tandem. Ironically we haven't been real good since.

I know a lot of you look at the triangle as a system that doesn't require an elite pg, but with phils tenure looking like it's going to be brief, i think it's something the knicks have to look at and realize. These fly by night pg's that come in and have a brief run then either break down, or their game goes completely south, has got to stop. With a volume shooter like melo, it's almost a no brainer at this point,

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:When a person talks about laying the foundation and mostly likely not being around to perhaps see the team win a championship, thats 2 maybe 3 yrs at best.

Each GM/Prez that was hired by the knicks came in and hired his own guys,and started his own culture. If phil wants to change the culture of the knicks, he has to be around for more than 5 yrs at the very least 6, ala PAT RILEY who built and guided that franchise, he even coached the team, he is MIAMI HEAT.

If phil was talking about staying in for the long hall and doing whatever takes to bring this city a championship, thats being optimistic.

Phil said he was brought in to lay a foundation and establish a winning culture. He never said he'd planned on staying until he dies. We don't know how long Phil is going to stay. He may decide to stay longer than his 5 year contract. At this point in time it doesn't matter. Can we just get thru this summer before we start worrying about the summers after this? How long Phil intends to stay will not have any impact on whether he's successful this summer. Right now the most important thing is Phil getting the best talent and fit for this team that he can this summer.

I agree, but i think it should start with a PG, and I think i would rather have D russell. It's too many nice pg's in the league to not have a star pg leading your team.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:When a person talks about laying the foundation and mostly likely not being around to perhaps see the team win a championship, thats 2 maybe 3 yrs at best.

Each GM/Prez that was hired by the knicks came in and hired his own guys,and started his own culture. If phil wants to change the culture of the knicks, he has to be around for more than 5 yrs at the very least 6, ala PAT RILEY who built and guided that franchise, he even coached the team, he is MIAMI HEAT.

If phil was talking about staying in for the long hall and doing whatever takes to bring this city a championship, thats being optimistic.

Phil said he was brought in to lay a foundation and establish a winning culture. He never said he'd planned on staying until he dies. We don't know how long Phil is going to stay. He may decide to stay longer than his 5 year contract. At this point in time it doesn't matter. Can we just get thru this summer before we start worrying about the summers after this? How long Phil intends to stay will not have any impact on whether he's successful this summer. Right now the most important thing is Phil getting the best talent and fit for this team that he can this summer.

I agree, but i think it should start with a PG, and I think i would rather have D russell. It's too many nice pg's in the league to not have a star pg leading your team.

What we need is a lead guard who can defend, shoot, drive and pass, but he doesn't have to be a Pure PG who needs to be ball dominant in order to be effective. A talented Combo guard would likely best serve our needs. This offense doesn't really require a Pure PG. Russell would be perfect but that all depends on the draft. Phil feels that he needs a big who can be the defensive anchor for the team. I would guess that he's hoping to land the Top Pick. If not then he'll have to use Free Agency to find bigs that can help defend.

It's easier to trade for a junk yard big than it is to find the right combo guard, and I'm not talking the westbrook type. The chances of you finding a combo guard that can do all of the above that you mention, is also a bit far fetch. I'm more concern with a high IQ player, and if he dominates the ball like rondo or nash at least I know he's going to eventually make the right play when all is said and done.

With fisher being so new to the coaching came, it's imperative to find a pg who can lead the team without instructions, and to put a lot of vets around him, thats the key to a quick turn around IMO..

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:When a person talks about laying the foundation and mostly likely not being around to perhaps see the team win a championship, thats 2 maybe 3 yrs at best.

Each GM/Prez that was hired by the knicks came in and hired his own guys,and started his own culture. If phil wants to change the culture of the knicks, he has to be around for more than 5 yrs at the very least 6, ala PAT RILEY who built and guided that franchise, he even coached the team, he is MIAMI HEAT.

If phil was talking about staying in for the long hall and doing whatever takes to bring this city a championship, thats being optimistic.

Phil said he was brought in to lay a foundation and establish a winning culture. He never said he'd planned on staying until he dies. We don't know how long Phil is going to stay. He may decide to stay longer than his 5 year contract. At this point in time it doesn't matter. Can we just get thru this summer before we start worrying about the summers after this? How long Phil intends to stay will not have any impact on whether he's successful this summer. Right now the most important thing is Phil getting the best talent and fit for this team that he can this summer.

I agree, but i think it should start with a PG, and I think i would rather have D russell. It's too many nice pg's in the league to not have a star pg leading your team.

What we need is a lead guard who can defend, shoot, drive and pass, but he doesn't have to be a Pure PG who needs to be ball dominant in order to be effective. A talented Combo guard would likely best serve our needs. This offense doesn't really require a Pure PG. Russell would be perfect but that all depends on the draft. Phil feels that he needs a big who can be the defensive anchor for the team. I would guess that he's hoping to land the Top Pick. If not then he'll have to use Free Agency to find bigs that can help defend.

It's easier to trade for a junk yard big than it is to find the right combo guard, and I'm not talking the westbrook type. The chances of you finding a combo guard that can do all of the above that you mention, is also a bit far fetch. I'm more concern with a high IQ player, and if he dominates the ball like rondo or nash at least I know he's going to eventually make the right play when all is said and done.

With fisher being so new to the coaching came, it's imperative to find a pg who can lead the team without instructions, and to put a lot of vets around him, thats the key to a quick turn around IMO..

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

Forgot all about Bibby!

good player. Classic example of how we get guys when they are ready to turn the corner from bad to useless

Heartless bastards! Did Bibby not hit the game winning three against the Heat to give us our first playoff win in more than a decade? How soon they forget.

1 million dollars for 1 shot..smh

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:We really haven't had a consistent pg since ....

I've said this before, and it's just my take on it, but how well a franchise mines the point guard position often, IMHO, says a lot about the franchise's ability to search for, scout, develop and maximize personnel.

Point guard has and will be the most position rich in the modern game. It's just simple math. The range of practical height of the modern NBA point guard is the closest to the general height of the adult male population on Earth. Only 12 percent of people on Earth are 6 feet tall or over, and generally most of those will fall into the 6-6'3 spectrum over the above that spectrum.

Lots of teams don't have a huge problem just mining out 2nd rounders or late first rounders or UDFAs and Tier 4 free agents and finding servicable help. Are we talking prime Top 5 type of help? No, but at a league replacement level, lots of franchises find a way.

That the Knicks keep screwing up the point guard position isn't an indictment on the general state of the supply and talent of point guards in the modern era, it's really an indictment on how the Knicks in the past decade have been completely dysfunctional.

I also think it's a key point that lots of guys here tend to miss because they keep wanting to make a top heavy roster in terms of cap usage with overpaid no defense power fowards and seemingly are oblivious to the concept of roster depth.

My best friend told me the knicks would never win the championship with out a star pg like walt frazier. He told me that 21 yrs ago when the knicks were up on the rockets 3-2 in the finals. I wasn't into basketball as deep as I'm into it now, so I argued him down defending my knicks and Ewing, starks and Oak, and mind you, he's born and raised in NY and has never been a knicks fan, but never hated on them at any point.

Even though we talk about sports every single time were together or talk on the phone, (he's a sports attic) he reminded be yesterday about the heated debate that day, and after all this time, I finally had to agree with him.

If the knicks grab one of those bigs in the draft, we may just see another EWING era where will just be a very good team that can't get over the hump..We have not won a championship since walt..