nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are going to be a player this summer. Not every Free Agent is gonna be retained by their current team. There are going to be players who will sign here not just because of the money but also to get a fresh start in the largest market. There are those who keep dismissing this aspect but I can tell you that any good Agent will not discount NY for their client. The Agents know the truth about having their player become a star in New York. It can be a major boost to their ability to capitalize on their earning potential.

If you're Monroe you know that you'll gain a lot from being a starter on a team in NY. Not every player is going to be able to get their current team to spend big bucks on them. Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll may be in that kind of position. I'm curious to know what it would take to pry Middleton away from the Bucks.

The longer the Bucks are in the playoffs the unlikeliness of them letting him go as he is a part of why this series hasnt ended yet. he's a very good player and I really dont see them letting him go.

Now while I have thoroughly dismissed the illusion of what NY allegedly offers players and all facts prove that not to be true, the Knicks will obviously sign someone. Everyone isnt cut for NY though, and you dont become a star here if the team isnt good.

I can see Carroll coming here, maybe green if the bank vault is wide open for him, but essentially that's gonna be how Phil will bring in talent via free agency...by overpaying.

Guys like Danny Green and Carroll won't be able to get more than the market will bare. I'm not expecting the Knicks to sign guys for less than they're worth but when people say overpaying there has to be some sense of perspective regarding that. What will other teams offer Carroll or Danny Green? The Knicks will have to come up above those offers but that doesn't mean that they'll have to pay the max to every one of them. There will be a ceiling on what certain players will be able to get.

What I mean by overpaying is the Knicks imo will pursue those types of players immediately, and pay well above what they probably would get. teams dont share amongst themselves what they offer free agents, agents dont do that either as it's bad faith negotiating.

Overpaying doesnt equal maxing anyone out, I havent suggested that at all.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are going to be a player this summer. Not every Free Agent is gonna be retained by their current team. There are going to be players who will sign here not just because of the money but also to get a fresh start in the largest market. There are those who keep dismissing this aspect but I can tell you that any good Agent will not discount NY for their client. The Agents know the truth about having their player become a star in New York. It can be a major boost to their ability to capitalize on their earning potential.

If you're Monroe you know that you'll gain a lot from being a starter on a team in NY. Not every player is going to be able to get their current team to spend big bucks on them. Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll may be in that kind of position. I'm curious to know what it would take to pry Middleton away from the Bucks.

The longer the Bucks are in the playoffs the unlikeliness of them letting him go as he is a part of why this series hasnt ended yet. he's a very good player and I really dont see them letting him go.

Now while I have thoroughly dismissed the illusion of what NY allegedly offers players and all facts prove that not to be true, the Knicks will obviously sign someone. Everyone isnt cut for NY though, and you dont become a star here if the team isnt good.

I can see Carroll coming here, maybe green if the bank vault is wide open for him, but essentially that's gonna be how Phil will bring in talent via free agency...by overpaying.

Guys like Danny Green and Carroll won't be able to get more than the market will bare. I'm not expecting the Knicks to sign guys for less than they're worth but when people say overpaying there has to be some sense of perspective regarding that. What will other teams offer Carroll or Danny Green? The Knicks will have to come up above those offers but that doesn't mean that they'll have to pay the max to every one of them. There will be a ceiling on what certain players will be able to get.

What I mean by overpaying is the Knicks imo will pursue those types of players immediately, and pay well above what they probably would get. teams dont share amongst themselves what they offer free agents, agents dont do that either as it's bad faith negotiating.

Overpaying doesnt equal maxing anyone out, I havent suggested that at all.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are going to be a player this summer. Not every Free Agent is gonna be retained by their current team. There are going to be players who will sign here not just because of the money but also to get a fresh start in the largest market. There are those who keep dismissing this aspect but I can tell you that any good Agent will not discount NY for their client. The Agents know the truth about having their player become a star in New York. It can be a major boost to their ability to capitalize on their earning potential.

If you're Monroe you know that you'll gain a lot from being a starter on a team in NY. Not every player is going to be able to get their current team to spend big bucks on them. Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll may be in that kind of position. I'm curious to know what it would take to pry Middleton away from the Bucks.

The longer the Bucks are in the playoffs the unlikeliness of them letting him go as he is a part of why this series hasnt ended yet. he's a very good player and I really dont see them letting him go.

Now while I have thoroughly dismissed the illusion of what NY allegedly offers players and all facts prove that not to be true, the Knicks will obviously sign someone. Everyone isnt cut for NY though, and you dont become a star here if the team isnt good.

I can see Carroll coming here, maybe green if the bank vault is wide open for him, but essentially that's gonna be how Phil will bring in talent via free agency...by overpaying.

Guys like Danny Green and Carroll won't be able to get more than the market will bare. I'm not expecting the Knicks to sign guys for less than they're worth but when people say overpaying there has to be some sense of perspective regarding that. What will other teams offer Carroll or Danny Green? The Knicks will have to come up above those offers but that doesn't mean that they'll have to pay the max to every one of them. There will be a ceiling on what certain players will be able to get.

What I mean by overpaying is the Knicks imo will pursue those types of players immediately, and pay well above what they probably would get. teams dont share amongst themselves what they offer free agents, agents dont do that either as it's bad faith negotiating.

Overpaying doesnt equal maxing anyone out, I havent suggested that at all.

I'd rather see small moves than overpaying on a big name. If they could get both Carrol and Green for the same price as Aldridge, I'd pass on Aldridge.

agreed, plus they'd have room for more.

That is not limited cap space. That is half the cap. There are phantom cap holds and all that, but I mean, to call the Knicks cap space "limited" is pretty silly.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The Knicks have $33M in committed salaries to Melo, Jose, Timmy, Early and Langston. The cap is project to be $66M.

That is not limited cap space. That is half the cap. There are phantom cap holds and all that, but I mean, to call the Knicks cap space "limited" is pretty silly.

it's around $22-26m with the cap holds and draftee hold. They need to get Shved to sign a deal using the exception money to give them the most options.](if they want him)

nixluva wrote:There are some really hidden gems in this league. IMO these are some players that are a lot better than some bigger names costing WAY more.

I'm sure there are others but these guys stick out in my mind as players you could build a cheap but good roster with. I don't know if Phil has these guys on his radar but they provide excellent value IMO.

Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
18  A. Morrow	  SG  29  OKC  74  1806  14.8  .604  .528  .145  2.4   9.1   5.8   5.2   1.5  0.5  5.5   16.5  4.4  1.2  5.7   .151    1.2
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
6   M. Muscala	  PF  23  ATL  40  502   18.0  .608  .146  .166  12.2  14.8  13.5  8.0   1.6  3.2  11.5  16.7  1.2  0.7  1.9   .179    0.5
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0

BRIGGS wrote:Hey nixluva--are you sure all of these guys are free agents? Guys like Morrow Muscala etc..

Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
20  C. Joseph	  PG  23  SAS  79  1444  15.5  .564  .107  .348  3.5   11.4  7.5   19.7  1.6  0.9  12.4  17.0  2.7  1.8  4.5   .149    1.0
31  Goran Dragic  PG  28  TOT  78  2640  17.4  .577  .258  .234  3.5   8.2   5.9   22.8  1.5  0.5  13.5  21.8  5.4  1.4  6.8   .123    2.1
38  Bran Knight	  PG  23  TOT  63  2035  17.1  .543  .361  .251  1.6   12.0  6.8   27.4  2.3  0.4  16.1  25.9  2.0  2.5  4.5   .106    1.6
39  Reg Jackson	  PG  24  TOT  77  2268  17.2  .511  .242  .219  2.6   12.9  7.8   34.8  1.4  0.3  14.6  24.6  3.3  1.7  4.9   .104    1.6
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
2   Jimmy Butler  SG  25  CHI  65  2513  21.3  .583  .212  .508  5.1   11.2  8.2   14.4  2.3  1.0  7.7   21.6  8.2  3.0  11.2  .214    4.2
11  Danny Green	  SG  27  SAS  81  2312  16.5  .596  .619  .172  2.7   13.9  8.4   10.3  2.2  2.8  10.5  17.5  4.0  3.9  7.8   .163    4.1
22  W. Matthews	  SG  28  POR  60  2024  16.1  .586  .592  .193  2.1   9.5   5.9   10.8  1.9  0.4  9.0   19.8  4.0  2.2  6.2   .147    3.0
26  Alexey Shved  SG  26  TOT  42  767   19.5  .541  .415  .448  3.3   11.7  7.3   25.7  2.0  0.6  10.7  26.3  1.7  0.5  2.2   .135    0.5
40  Mar Belinelli SG  28  SAS  62  1388  12.4  .553  .489  .211  2.2   10.5  6.4   10.3  1.1  0.2  10.6  18.8  1.5  1.4  2.9   .100    0.5
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
1   DeA. Jordan	  C   26  LAC  82  2820  21.0  .638  .007  .882  16.2  32.4  24.5  3.2   1.5  5.4  12.8  13.6  7.4  5.4  12.8  .217    4.3
5   M. Gasol	  C   30  MEM  81  2687  21.7  .558  .016  .410  4.9   21.8  13.4  19.7  1.4  4.0  12.2  24.6  5.5  4.7  10.2  .182    4.6
8   A. Baynes	  C   28  SAS  70  1122  15.9  .618  .012  .318  11.2  20.7  16.1  4.9   0.7  1.5  14.8  17.8  2.3  1.6  3.9   .166    0.3
13  A. Ajinca	  C   26  NOP  68  957   19.9  .595  .000  .301  12.4  25.0  18.7  8.2   1.2  4.0  15.6  21.1  1.9  1.2  3.2   .159    0.5
14  Brook Lopez	  C   26  BRK  72  2100  22.7  .558  .010  .278  11.5  17.1  14.3  4.5   1.1  4.8  8.6   26.3  4.7  2.2  7.0   .159    1.1
15  B. Biyombo	  C   22  CHO  64  1243  15.2  .578  .000  .941  13.7  22.6  18.0  2.0   0.7  6.3  16.5  11.6  1.8  2.2  4.0   .155    0.5
19  R. Lopez	  C   26  POR  59  1638  16.2  .574  .002  .291  12.7  13.1  12.9  5.1   0.5  3.7  12.9  15.5  3.2  1.9  5.1   .150    1.7
23  Enes Kanter	  C   22  TOT  75  2135  20.3  .564  .048  .252  14.6  20.5  17.6  4.8   0.9  1.1  12.3  24.7  4.3  2.1  6.4   .145   -0.1
32  Joel Freeland C   27  POR  48  617   12.2  .522  .000  .166  11.0  21.9  16.6  3.8   0.7  2.7  12.4  13.4  0.6  0.9  1.6   .122    0.0
34  Omer Asik	  C   28  NOP  76  1982  15.5  .545  .000  .546  14.0  28.8  21.4  5.4   0.8  2.1  15.7  14.0  2.8  2.2  5.0   .120    0.6
35  Kosta Koufos  C   25  MEM  81  1348  14.2  .530  .000  .237  10.3  25.8  18.1  4.3   1.1  3.9  14.9  15.8  0.8  2.5  3.3   .118    0.2
37  Cole Aldrich  C   26  NYK  61  976   18.1  .513  .000  .213  11.6  28.9  20.0  13.3  2.0  5.5  15.2  18.3  0.8  1.4  2.2   .107    0.7
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
4   Bran. Wright  PF  27  TOT  75  1449	 20.4  .660  .008  .309  9.6   14.7  12.1  4.4   1.7  5.1  7.6   13.6  4.3  1.8  6.1   .202    2.0
7   P. Millsap	  PF  29  ATL  73  2390  20.1  .565  .232  .362  6.9   20.0  13.6  15.4  2.8  2.4  13.3  23.8  4.0  4.3  8.3   .167    3.7
9   L. Aldridge	  PF  29  POR  71  2512  22.8  .528  .074  .256  7.7   22.9  15.5  9.2   1.0  1.9  7.2   30.2  4.9  3.7  8.6   .165    1.4
10  K. Love	  PF  26  CLE  75  2532  18.8  .562  .412  .337  6.5   26.3  16.6  10.7  1.0  1.2  10.0  21.7  5.8  2.9  8.7   .165    2.5
17  G. Monroe	  PF  24  DET  69  2137  21.2  .549  .000  .394  11.2  25.1  17.9  11.7  1.9  1.3  13.0  23.9  4.0  2.8  6.8   .153    2.1
21  Tri Thompson  PF  23  CLE  82  2194  15.6  .580  .000  .508  14.5  19.7  17.2  2.7   0.8  2.2  12.2  14.0  4.7  2.1  6.8   .148    0.8
24  Jon. Jerebko  PF  27  TOT  75  1230  15.0  .549  .369  .174  8.0   17.2  12.5  9.0   1.9  1.1  9.7   16.2  2.0  1.4  3.5   .135    0.9
25  K. Middleton  PF  23  MIL  79  2378  15.6  .563  .308  .180  2.3   14.3  8.4   12.7  2.6  0.4  10.8  19.9  3.2  3.5  6.7   .135    2.0
27  Brandon Bass  PF  29  BOS  82  1929  16.3  .557  .047  .313  7.8   14.9  11.3  8.6   1.1  1.3  9.6   19.5  3.4  1.9  5.3   .132    0.7
29  Lavoy Allen   PF  25  IND  63  1070  14.9  .493  .000  .157  12.8  20.5  16.7  10.9  0.7  3.1  11.1  15.2  1.3  1.6  2.8   .127    0.8
30  Amir Johnson  PF  27  TOR  75  1979  15.4  .603  .089  .249  9.3   17.3  13.3  9.4   1.1  2.4  16.0  15.7  3.5  1.6  5.1   .124    1.9
Rk  Player        Pos Age Tm   G   MP    PER   TS%   3PAr  FTr   ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 ▾ VORP
3   Kawhi Leonard SF  23  SAS  64  2033  22.0  .567  .234  .307  4.8   20.6  12.9  13.0  3.7  1.8  9.4   23.0  4.2  4.4  8.6   .204    4.1
12  Dray. Green	  SF  24  GSW  79  2490  16.4  .540  .430  .261  5.1   22.4  14.0  16.1  2.4  2.9  13.5  17.2  3.3  5.2  8.5   .163    4.4
16  D. Carroll	  SF  28  ATL  70  2189  15.9  .603  .466  .277  5.3   13.8  9.7   8.3   2.2  0.7  9.3   16.9  4.3  2.8  7.0   .154    2.7
28  Dorell Wright SF  29  POR  48  592   13.4  .525  .568  .221  2.6   17.2  10.0  10.2  1.7  1.3  7.9   17.1  0.7  0.8  1.6   .128    0.4
33  Tha Sefolosha SF  30  ATL  52  976   13.8  .506  .313  .233  6.4   19.3  13.1  11.2  2.8  1.8  12.2  14.6  0.8  1.7  2.5   .121    0.8
36  Jae Crowder   SF  24  TOT  82  1647  13.9  .517  .382  .259  4.7   14.9  9.7   8.6   2.2  1.2  7.5   17.5  1.9  2.0  3.9   .113    1.1
41  Tobias Harris SF  22  ORL  68  2369  16.7  .551  .252  .258  3.4   17.3  10.3  8.8   1.5  1.2  9.8   22.5  3.0  1.8  4.8   .098    1.0

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are going to be a player this summer. Not every Free Agent is gonna be retained by their current team. There are going to be players who will sign here not just because of the money but also to get a fresh start in the largest market. There are those who keep dismissing this aspect but I can tell you that any good Agent will not discount NY for their client. The Agents know the truth about having their player become a star in New York. It can be a major boost to their ability to capitalize on their earning potential.

If you're Monroe you know that you'll gain a lot from being a starter on a team in NY. Not every player is going to be able to get their current team to spend big bucks on them. Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll may be in that kind of position. I'm curious to know what it would take to pry Middleton away from the Bucks.

The longer the Bucks are in the playoffs the unlikeliness of them letting him go as he is a part of why this series hasnt ended yet. he's a very good player and I really dont see them letting him go.

Now while I have thoroughly dismissed the illusion of what NY allegedly offers players and all facts prove that not to be true, the Knicks will obviously sign someone. Everyone isnt cut for NY though, and you dont become a star here if the team isnt good.

I can see Carroll coming here, maybe green if the bank vault is wide open for him, but essentially that's gonna be how Phil will bring in talent via free agency...by overpaying.

Guys like Danny Green and Carroll won't be able to get more than the market will bare. I'm not expecting the Knicks to sign guys for less than they're worth but when people say overpaying there has to be some sense of perspective regarding that. What will other teams offer Carroll or Danny Green? The Knicks will have to come up above those offers but that doesn't mean that they'll have to pay the max to every one of them. There will be a ceiling on what certain players will be able to get.

What I mean by overpaying is the Knicks imo will pursue those types of players immediately, and pay well above what they probably would get. teams dont share amongst themselves what they offer free agents, agents dont do that either as it's bad faith negotiating.

Overpaying doesnt equal maxing anyone out, I havent suggested that at all.

I'd rather see small moves than overpaying on a big name. If they could get both Carrol and Green for the same price as Aldridge, I'd pass on Aldridge.

agreed, plus they'd have room for more.

I think Phil does see the value of going after the low hanging fruit in this FA class. It's going to be very interesting to see how he's able to make the most of the limited cap space.

I see you have your "fail buffer" engaged already.

I don't have a fail buffer. I'm the one who is more optimistic in our chances so it makes no sense to have a fail buffer as you call it. My base line for a successful off season is higher than most so effectively what would a failure in my book actually be? I couldn't tell you since I've never thought about it.

I'm the one suggesting we could end up with any combination of 2nd to mid tier free agents. My WS/48 list is full of players who are above league avg. and I would say we have a high degree of chance to land a couple of guys from that list.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are going to be a player this summer. Not every Free Agent is gonna be retained by their current team. There are going to be players who will sign here not just because of the money but also to get a fresh start in the largest market. There are those who keep dismissing this aspect but I can tell you that any good Agent will not discount NY for their client. The Agents know the truth about having their player become a star in New York. It can be a major boost to their ability to capitalize on their earning potential.

If you're Monroe you know that you'll gain a lot from being a starter on a team in NY. Not every player is going to be able to get their current team to spend big bucks on them. Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll may be in that kind of position. I'm curious to know what it would take to pry Middleton away from the Bucks.

The longer the Bucks are in the playoffs the unlikeliness of them letting him go as he is a part of why this series hasnt ended yet. he's a very good player and I really dont see them letting him go.

Now while I have thoroughly dismissed the illusion of what NY allegedly offers players and all facts prove that not to be true, the Knicks will obviously sign someone. Everyone isnt cut for NY though, and you dont become a star here if the team isnt good.

I can see Carroll coming here, maybe green if the bank vault is wide open for him, but essentially that's gonna be how Phil will bring in talent via free agency...by overpaying.

Guys like Danny Green and Carroll won't be able to get more than the market will bare. I'm not expecting the Knicks to sign guys for less than they're worth but when people say overpaying there has to be some sense of perspective regarding that. What will other teams offer Carroll or Danny Green? The Knicks will have to come up above those offers but that doesn't mean that they'll have to pay the max to every one of them. There will be a ceiling on what certain players will be able to get.

What I mean by overpaying is the Knicks imo will pursue those types of players immediately, and pay well above what they probably would get. teams dont share amongst themselves what they offer free agents, agents dont do that either as it's bad faith negotiating.

Overpaying doesnt equal maxing anyone out, I havent suggested that at all.

I'd rather see small moves than overpaying on a big name. If they could get both Carrol and Green for the same price as Aldridge, I'd pass on Aldridge.

agreed, plus they'd have room for more.

I think Phil does see the value of going after the low hanging fruit in this FA class. It's going to be very interesting to see how he's able to make the most of the limited cap space.

I see you have your "fail buffer" engaged already.

I don't have a fail buffer. I'm the one who is more optimistic in our chances so it makes no sense to have a fail buffer as you call it. My base line for a successful off season is higher than most so effectively what would a failure in my book actually be? I couldn't tell you since I've never thought about it.

I'm the one suggesting we could end up with any combination of 2nd to mid tier free agents. My WS/48 list is full of players who are above league avg. and I would say we have a high degree of chance to land a couple of guys from that list.

The cap space isn't "limited"...it's plenty to build a quality team. if Phil cant do it, it will be because of Phil not the so-called "limited" cap space. that's your "fail buffer", the built in excuse and exoneration of Phil.

Why are you focusing on one phrase? This is much to do about nothing. Saying cap space is limited is not a "fail buffer". It's merely the truth. We've got 5 guys under contract and almost no starters yet. Money can go really fast in Free Agency. This isn't some controversial statement. Phil is going to have to be judicious in how he massages the money he has. IMO there are some players who could provide excellent value and that doesn't mean i'm saying they're hidden gems but rather that the money we'd likely have to spend on them would be reasonable given their production and efficiency.

BRIGGS wrote:On this entire list their are only 10 guys out of 42 who have a PER over 20. I believe this is the best stat to look at in terms of a player who can put their mark on a game in a material way. You can see the difference in players as these are all sure fire max players or very close accept Wright --although he should get 10mm+

#1 Lamarcus Aldridge 22.8
#2 Brook Lopez 22.7
#3 Kawhi Leonard 22
#4 Mark Gasol 21.7
#5 Jimmy Butler 21.3
#6 Greg Monroe 21.3
#7 Deandre Jordan 21
#8 Branden Wright 20.4
#9 Enes Kanter 20.3(his PER with Utah alone was 25.1)
#10 Paul Millsap 20.1

Yes this is why I wanted to make a list like this since it covers more than just one statistic. I believe Phil will start with making sure he can grab one of these players at the very least. We need difference makers to form the core of the new starting lineup. I think after he drafts he'll be able to focus on one of the better Free Agents and if he can land one of them he can go for 1 or 2 of the more affordable but still high value FA's as i've tried to identify.