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Vince Carter in NY?
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technomaster
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7/4/2004  2:17 AM
Vince is also one of those players who is capable of putting another team in foul trouble singlehandedly... and is capable of taking double figure free throws. As for his knee injuries--- he may not be the athlete he was a few years ago, but still, he's among the most athletic in the league... and he has a better all-around game now.

I'd love to have him. The big thing about him is that he still has a bit of upside. NO, he won't live up to the MJ comparisons... but he's just about as tough a defensive assignment as anyone in the league.

I like Houston, but he has nowhere the all-around game that Vinsanity has.

Although here's a question--- at this stage, how does Carter compare with up and coming "youngsters" like Maggette and Q-Rich?
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metra
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7/4/2004  2:39 AM
I cant believe what im reading. People dont want to trade Vince for KT. The OP never said that H20 was in the deal, which is 90% bs anyway. Second of all, 20/5/5 are great stats. I'd trade both KT and TT for Vince in a second - assuming JC signs with the Knicks.
franco12
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7/4/2004  12:16 PM
Allan Houston is a souped up version of Hubert Davis.

Vince Carter is a watered down version of Michael Jordan.
EnySpree
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7/4/2004  12:52 PM
Posted by Bobby:

do yourself a favor before you make your next post, put the crack pipe down , step away from the keyboard and put a little thought to exclude the ridiculous

Sorry Sponge Bob....

I got carried away with my preaching.
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EnySpree
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7/4/2004  12:54 PM
Posted by franco12:

Allan Houston is a souped up version of Hubert Davis.

Vince Carter is a watered down version of Michael Jordan.

In a nutshell.
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jazz74
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7/4/2004  2:10 PM
again i have to defend houston to unappreciative fans. yes, he has made the lucky shot against miami but was'nt he the leading scorer on the team throughout the playoffs? did'nt he embarassed steve smith in the next round who is not a bad defender and then reggie miller in the eastern conference finals? did'nt he literally put the team on his back in the ecf clinching game against indiana? saying he bitch up when he has great defenders, in detroit against chicago did'nt he average 25ppg that series? who was defending him? oh' no other than micheal jordan. don't come here saying houston is garbage especially in his prime. he was ranked the top 5 shooting guards between 99-01. and if you watched any knick games he has hit clutch shots throughout the years ( the dallas game anyone?). now you can argue that houston is not the player he once was and his knee condition is a big cause for concern. in this case, vince carter is a much better option. vc is younger and has more athletic ability and offensive arsenal. but defensive wise they are in the same boat as well as health wise. two huge questions with carter: health and coachability. no question if healthy we will be a eastern conference contender. but can he stay healthy or get along with lenny?
simrud
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7/4/2004  8:44 PM
Steve Smith was always a horrible defender and a soft shooter in general, kinda like Houston. Those playoffs were Houston's best strech. He has never come close to playing at that level again. He pretty much picked out in 99. Besides, that team was so talanted. It had Spree, Camby, Ewing intially, LJ when he still could play, KT of the bench, Ward/Childs in there better years, even Dudley was a good backup C. Houston had much more room to operate. If anybody carried the team against Indiana it was LJ. He humiliated the Davis boy as neither one could guard him in the post. Camby also did a great job. The Indy series was won because of frontcourt superiority, not guard play. The Atlanat series was a joke, that Hawk team was one of the worst playoffs team in NBA history and it was badly injured, too. Against the Spurs, in that game you mention, the one we won, Spree also had at least in the high 20's if not 30's and Camby had his only good game. Spree kept up the intensity untill the last second, Houston gave up loosing game 4. Houston was a very good SG at one point, however now he is a shell of himself evne if he comes back, and even in his best years he could not carry Carters jock.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Silverfuel
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7/4/2004  9:33 PM
Jazz: That SA game when Houston had 30, Spree had 30 also. Steve Smith is a terrible defensive player and Atlanta was a terrible team. Dont forget that the worst most aggrivating part about Houston is his refusal to do anything other than jumpshoot.

He basically told the reporters, "I will not rebound because that is not my game" Also remember how he was trying to learn to penetrate and go to the hoop more often so he can get more FT's? Whatever happened to that? Houston is a taller Hubert Davis. He is terrible. Don't even compare him to Carter who is an actual top 5 SG in the league.
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rojasmas
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7/4/2004  11:24 PM
Vince Carter has been spiraling downward since his one shining year in the sun about five years ago. He needs a psychiatrist, not a coach, and the chances of him playing even close to every game are remote at best. Add to this the Lenny Wilkens factor and there is no chance of a deal with our Knicks. And I am glad for it.
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raven
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7/5/2004  2:50 AM
thx rojasmas, I was starting to feel a bit lonely here... =)
Silverfuel
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7/5/2004  8:03 AM
Houston's career is definately going down. Look at how he did last year with his injury and how much it "hurt" when he played with it. He didn't even have surgery this summer.

There is no way he will recover without surgery and play the entire next season? He will once again play 6 months or more and be injuerd in when its time for the playoffs. I cannot believe people are actually telling me that Houston is a better basketball player than Vince Carter. I guess the rest of the NBA is right about us Knick fans being delusional.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
raven
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7/5/2004  8:07 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Houston's career is definately going down.

Noone said the opposite, but you have to realize that you could have inserted vince instead of houston and your sentence would also have been true.

vince brings nothing we could need.
jazz74
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7/5/2004  8:30 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Jazz: That SA game when Houston had 30, Spree had 30 also. Steve Smith is a terrible defensive player and Atlanta was a terrible team. Dont forget that the worst most aggrivating part about Houston is his refusal to do anything other than jumpshoot.

He basically told the reporters, "I will not rebound because that is not my game" Also remember how he was trying to learn to penetrate and go to the hoop more often so he can get more FT's? Whatever happened to that? Houston is a taller Hubert Davis. He is terrible. Don't even compare him to Carter who is an actual top 5 SG in the league.

i don't know if my memory served me right but did'nt houston shoot a runner to win in miami? did'nt he dunk on a receiving end of an alley-oop in the atlanta game? was'nt the pivotal situation of the ecf game 6 of indiana was when houston, who led in scoring that game, drove the lane for a three point play lay-up? did'nt he do a great job defending miller that series who was on fire until then? sounds like little more than a jumpshooter. he was not terrible and only little over a year ago he was top 15 in scoring ( in which he DID drive more to get to the line that year). my issue is not whether vince carter was better than him because vc is better than houston. but you have to give houston credit when it is due.
Silverfuel
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7/5/2004  8:35 AM
There is absolutely no question that Vince at SG/SF would be an upgrade over Houston. Ask anyone in the world that does not wear a knick uniform or is a knick fan if they think Carter would be better than Houston.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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7/5/2004  9:03 AM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by Silverfuel:

Jazz: That SA game when Houston had 30, Spree had 30 also. Steve Smith is a terrible defensive player and Atlanta was a terrible team. Dont forget that the worst most aggrivating part about Houston is his refusal to do anything other than jumpshoot.

He basically told the reporters, "I will not rebound because that is not my game" Also remember how he was trying to learn to penetrate and go to the hoop more often so he can get more FT's? Whatever happened to that? Houston is a taller Hubert Davis. He is terrible. Don't even compare him to Carter who is an actual top 5 SG in the league.

i don't know if my memory served me right but did'nt houston shoot a runner to win in miami? did'nt he dunk on a receiving end of an alley-oop in the atlanta game? was'nt the pivotal situation of the ecf game 6 of indiana was when houston, who led in scoring that game, drove the lane for a three point play lay-up? did'nt he do a great job defending miller that series who was on fire until then? sounds like little more than a jumpshooter. he was not terrible and only little over a year ago he was top 15 in scoring ( in which he DID drive more to get to the line that year). my issue is not whether vince carter was better than him because vc is better than houston. but you have to give houston credit when it is due.
There is no credit due when it comes to houston. He was at one time dubbed a Franchise player. he never played like one. Being a Franchise player means being better than just 'Top 15 in scoring'. And the times you mentioned with the alley and the drive for a 3-point play are extremely rare incidents. In general Houston drives a lot less than he jump shoots. A LOT LESS. Bottom line is, Allan Houston is a 1-dimensional player who is not even close to being Top 10 SGs in the league.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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7/5/2004  9:04 AM
OH, and as far and giving credit is concerned: I will obviously give credit to any player that makes a good player. Without of doubt, I will give credit where and when due but I will never give more credit than what is due.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
raven
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7/5/2004  9:22 AM
latrell, is that you ? just kidding, you make valid points silver. What I don't understand is how a ***** like carter could help us going further. Nothing more.

This guy is just bark no bite. No heart. He used to be a sensationnal player, 5 yrs ago, but he's only a shadow of his former self now.
diderotn
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7/5/2004  9:56 AM
This is just a sensless argument. Vince Carter is a much better player than HOuston. Vince at least is not one dimentional.
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raven
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7/5/2004  10:00 AM
Posted by diderotn:

This is just a sensless argument. Vince Carter is a much better player than HOuston. Vince at least is not one dimentional.

hey silver, I didn't know you had a brother posting here.

alright, please, just don't bring vince here. For me this case is closed.

peace.
djsunyc
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7/5/2004  10:14 AM
i don't get this allan bashing. these are probably the same people that think dmiles or flip murray are better than him.

did you guys not remember who pretty mach CARRIED our entire team for the 2nd half of last season while sprewell was going 3-15 every night? granted, we didn't make the playoffs and probably would have if he had some help but we made a nice run after the all star break. combine that with 2-50 point games against kobe and payton/cassell and many 30+ games as well. so allan houston is a damn good shooting guard and probably has one of the best jumpers in the game. is he a good defender? no. can he rebound or dribble penetrate? no. but he's still a damn good player (and let's forget about the contract when talking about him). he actually is the missing piece on MANY MANY teams looking to win or repeat as champions. he would've been perfect with the lakers, with the spurs, and even the nets. this is the first time he's been hurt as a knick and missed a stretch of games. why can jason kidd come back yet h20 is finished? it's hypocritical.

but with all that being said, vince carter is still the better player. he seems to take weeks off at a stretch but still puts up 20+ ppg. he's more versatile offensively and is a better defender. the only question, like others pointed out, are his head. he is a little injury prone but he's still an all around better player than h20.

what people failed to realize is that VC's not mentally equipped to be the MAN and the funny thing is that h20 actually is, as exhibited by the way he took over the team last season. vince probably needs somebody else and seems to be wilting under the pressure. h20 actually is a quiet leader that quiety took this team over last season.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07/05/2004 10:15:11]
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