BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:Briggs:
I like Hezonja, but does his serious lack of minutes not concern you?(apologies if someone has already asked you this and you have already replied)

Its possible Hezonga has the most talent in this draft--he may end up being the best player--but there is NO way we can draft him. Does it matter his minutes--YES of course--he needs PT.

I think FOR the KNICKS the bottom line is this--mock draft aside

the four players that I can ONLY see us taking #1 Towns #2 Winslow(He gets it over Okafor becuase of 2 way play) #3 Okafor #4 Mudiay. These guys are the athletes in the top--they are not foreign and there will be no barrier to entry.

I think you are being way to harsh in you judgment of Okfor. He is as good a defender as Towns once a player gets into foul trouble he can't play with pedal to the metal. Kaminsky is a smart player and his years in college basketball have given him understanding and developed his game. But there were some good plays by Okafor in the game especially late in the game.

Take it to the combines have the two go head to head in workouts. You know the Knicks will do so they have to. The combines always has players surprise.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:Briggs:
I like Hezonja, but does his serious lack of minutes not concern you?(apologies if someone has already asked you this and you have already replied)

Its possible Hezonga has the most talent in this draft--he may end up being the best player--but there is NO way we can draft him. Does it matter his minutes--YES of course--he needs PT.

I think FOR the KNICKS the bottom line is this--mock draft aside

the four players that I can ONLY see us taking #1 Towns #2 Winslow(He gets it over Okafor becuase of 2 way play) #3 Okafor #4 Mudiay. These guys are the athletes in the top--they are not foreign and there will be no barrier to entry.

I think you are being way to harsh in you judgment of Okfor. He is as good a defender as Towns once a player gets into foul trouble he can't play with pedal to the metal. Kaminsky is a smart player and his years in college basketball have given him understanding and developed his game. But there were some good plays by Okafor in the game especially late in the game.

Take it to the combines have the two go head to head in workouts. You know the Knicks will do so they have to. The combines always has players surprise.

If we get Okafor Ill be estatic. If we thought lat year we had even a scintilla of a chance to get okafor I would say impossible. We have absolutely zero offense on the interior. Of course Okafor will be very high on the list. You're right too--Demarcus Cousins started getting the Oakfor treatment and ended up nosediving to 6th. and at the end that was a big mistake. Becasue we have Carmelo Im sure that a big player will be emphasized first. But I dont think any team will be getting jipped off with either Hezonga or Winslow.

Agreed I have Winslow all the way to 4th pick. Hezonja at 6th after Kaminski.

I'd take him over Winslow based on need.

Much rather have a big man or point guard.
I we weren't stuck with the small forward we have, I'd like Winslow & I don't want to hear about Carmelo playing power forward, he can play well there in certain matchups but isn't a 4.

Hector wrote:What happened to Russell?

I'd take him over Winslow based on need.

Much rather have a big man or point guard.
I we weren't stuck with the small forward we have, I'd like Winslow & I don't want to hear about Carmelo playing power forward, he can play well there in certain matchups but isn't a 4.

Russell can pass but I am unsure if he's a lead guard. Jerian Grant, for example, screams lead guard. I love Russell... Before the NCAA Tourney I had 1. Okafor 2. Russell 3. Towns... I bring that up because I love Russell. I think he's a special player. But he is a bit of a tweener. I think i would prefer to see him develop a SG, truthfully. Shannon Scott was the lead guard at OSU...

In an ideal Russell develop as a PG. I just see his gifts lending themselves to more of a SG... we will see. Either way the kid is a baller.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hezonja,winslow, Russell, Muinday............

Who is the alpha with the stones to be Phils next leader? Melo is not the future, our pick is.
Melo can be the man for two more years until the rook emerges.

In fact, Im ok to trade Melo at some point if we can't contend or Melo wants to finish with a contender that we can't be.

If Im not taking OKa4 or Towns, Im looking at personality and genetic motor. The thing about Kobe and Jordan was not what they were, but what they became.
That could not happen if injury or fatigue issues occured. The Zen of "Letting go of fear" is huge. Takes a special sociopathic mind to embrace this.
Remember, Jordan was selfish high volume shooter before phil.

He was a selfish high volume shooter after Phil also.. but the triangle was as tailor made for MJ as the SSOL was made for Nash. Of course MJ was also the best period so Im pretty sure he would have looked good in most offenses.

If your shooting it better than 50%+ he can shoot as much as he likes.

nixluva wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Hector wrote:What happened to Russell?

I'd take him over Winslow based on need.

Much rather have a big man or point guard.
I we weren't stuck with the small forward we have, I'd like Winslow & I don't want to hear about Carmelo playing power forward, he can play well there in certain matchups but isn't a 4.

Russell can pass but I am unsure if he's a lead guard. Jerian Grant, for example, screams lead guard. I love Russell... Before the NCAA Tourney I had 1. Okafor 2. Russell 3. Towns... I bring that up because I love Russell. I think he's a special player. But he is a bit of a tweener. I think i would prefer to see him develop a SG, truthfully. Shannon Scott was the lead guard at OSU...

In an ideal Russell develop as a PG. I just see his gifts lending themselves to more of a SG... we will see. Either way the kid is a baller.

In the Triangle you really want your SG to have PG skills. In fact there really isn't a prototypical PG in the Triangle. You want players that can be effective without having to be ball dominant. This is why a SG who can also pass and think like a PG is so great in the Triangle. You really want all of your players to be strong passers and thinkers. That's when the magic really happens with the Triangle. I think Russell would be a great fit in this system.

I agree and I think Russell will be special... especially with the way today's rules favor guards

It's very long and full of info but here's a bit of it.

But enough of Mudiay’s story. What we all want to know is, who is this mystery man on the court and can he live up to the hype of being an elite NBA point guard?
Well, let’s find out. Our journey begins in Beijing. The matchup: Defending CBA champion Beijing Ducks and Chinese Icon (maybe you remember him) Stephon Marbury. Naturally, with NBA scouts packed into a smoke-filled fire hazard arena, all eyes would be on Mudiay vs. Marbury. Let’s just say it didn’t end well for Mudiay. Poor shot selection, complaining about no-calls around the rim, bad overall body language and basic domination by his counterpart – Starbury.

The media was on him, coaches throughout the league doubted him, everyone tabbed Mudiay for another international experiment gone wrong. But this is when the true colors of players really come out. Anyone can be great when all the cards are stacked in their favor, but when adversity strikes, that’s when you find out exactly who they truly are.

Sure, Mudiay’s shooting numbers from China aren’t going to blow you away – 57.4 percent free-throw shooting (chalk up one air-ball in there as well), 34.2 percent three-point shooter; which is probably better than he currently is. Couple that with the extended NBA thre-point range and Mudiay’s three-point consistency is a definite question mark.

However, he is a very streaky shooter and is able to ride the waves and find a rhythm when he gets going. He lacked the ability to finish consistently at a high level around the rim and didn’t show much of an in-between game with stop-and-pop mid-range jumpers or an efficient floater. Which raises the question, if he struggled finishing at the rim in China, what will it be like when he meets Marcin Gortat or Serge Ibaka at the rim in the NBA?

However, the thing that stands out about Mudiay, which is why he will be a sure-fire highly effective NBA point guard is the one coaches lose their already grey-struck hair over trying to coach and develop. The word: Intangibles.

I have many contacts throughout the CBA; friends who are coaches, former coaches, players, and former players, but one of the best up-and-coming scouts throughout all of China, with great inside knowledge on everything CBA, shed some light on the Emmanuel Mudiay saga.

Lukas Peng followed Mudiay around game to game while he was in China.

“Physically he’s very gifted but not at the level of freaky athletic like a John Wall or Derrick Rose as initially advertised," Peng told me.

"He’s more of a combination of smooth, strong, and explosive than purely quick. Very skilled player with an array of moves to get by defender. He uses hesitation and change of speeds very well. Very good rebounder for a guard and a very talented passer. He really looks to get his teammates involved. It’s very rare in China to see someone consciously look for highly-efficient analytical offensive situations – corner three-point shooters, rim attacks and dives, and even finding the open man in their best scoring position in transition like Mudiay does.”

nixluva wrote:For those who are curious about why Mudiay is rated so highly there's an excellent article on him here: http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/emmanuel-mudiay-made-in-china

It's very long and full of info but here's a bit of it.

But enough of Mudiay’s story. What we all want to know is, who is this mystery man on the court and can he live up to the hype of being an elite NBA point guard?
Well, let’s find out. Our journey begins in Beijing. The matchup: Defending CBA champion Beijing Ducks and Chinese Icon (maybe you remember him) Stephon Marbury. Naturally, with NBA scouts packed into a smoke-filled fire hazard arena, all eyes would be on Mudiay vs. Marbury. Let’s just say it didn’t end well for Mudiay. Poor shot selection, complaining about no-calls around the rim, bad overall body language and basic domination by his counterpart – Starbury.

The media was on him, coaches throughout the league doubted him, everyone tabbed Mudiay for another international experiment gone wrong. But this is when the true colors of players really come out. Anyone can be great when all the cards are stacked in their favor, but when adversity strikes, that’s when you find out exactly who they truly are.

Sure, Mudiay’s shooting numbers from China aren’t going to blow you away – 57.4 percent free-throw shooting (chalk up one air-ball in there as well), 34.2 percent three-point shooter; which is probably better than he currently is. Couple that with the extended NBA thre-point range and Mudiay’s three-point consistency is a definite question mark.

However, he is a very streaky shooter and is able to ride the waves and find a rhythm when he gets going. He lacked the ability to finish consistently at a high level around the rim and didn’t show much of an in-between game with stop-and-pop mid-range jumpers or an efficient floater. Which raises the question, if he struggled finishing at the rim in China, what will it be like when he meets Marcin Gortat or Serge Ibaka at the rim in the NBA?

However, the thing that stands out about Mudiay, which is why he will be a sure-fire highly effective NBA point guard is the one coaches lose their already grey-struck hair over trying to coach and develop. The word: Intangibles.

I have many contacts throughout the CBA; friends who are coaches, former coaches, players, and former players, but one of the best up-and-coming scouts throughout all of China, with great inside knowledge on everything CBA, shed some light on the Emmanuel Mudiay saga.

Lukas Peng followed Mudiay around game to game while he was in China.

“Physically he’s very gifted but not at the level of freaky athletic like a John Wall or Derrick Rose as initially advertised," Peng told me.

"He’s more of a combination of smooth, strong, and explosive than purely quick. Very skilled player with an array of moves to get by defender. He uses hesitation and change of speeds very well. Very good rebounder for a guard and a very talented passer. He really looks to get his teammates involved. It’s very rare in China to see someone consciously look for highly-efficient analytical offensive situations – corner three-point shooters, rim attacks and dives, and even finding the open man in their best scoring position in transition like Mudiay does.”

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Hector wrote:What happened to Russell?

I'd take him over Winslow based on need.

Much rather have a big man or point guard.
I we weren't stuck with the small forward we have, I'd like Winslow & I don't want to hear about Carmelo playing power forward, he can play well there in certain matchups but isn't a 4.

Russell can pass but I am unsure if he's a lead guard. Jerian Grant, for example, screams lead guard. I love Russell... Before the NCAA Tourney I had 1. Okafor 2. Russell 3. Towns... I bring that up because I love Russell. I think he's a special player. But he is a bit of a tweener. I think i would prefer to see him develop a SG, truthfully. Shannon Scott was the lead guard at OSU...

In an ideal Russell develop as a PG. I just see his gifts lending themselves to more of a SG... we will see. Either way the kid is a baller.

In the Triangle you really want your SG to have PG skills. In fact there really isn't a prototypical PG in the Triangle. You want players that can be effective without having to be ball dominant. This is why a SG who can also pass and think like a PG is so great in the Triangle. You really want all of your players to be strong passers and thinkers. That's when the magic really happens with the Triangle. I think Russell would be a great fit in this system.

As good as Russell is you want your SG to be athletic you want him to be a slasher also to break down defenses and use his finishing and passing abilities to their full advantage. That is why Mudiay make way more sense. His athleticism also allows for better defense as he is quick enough to guard both SG and PG position. To me he can be that Kobe/Jordan type player.

Every Mudiay report says he cant shoot. If Im wrong on that then great. Russell's shooting is pretty other worldly, and he did lead his team in rebounding (at SG).

Mudiay vs. Russell will come down to measurements and combine results IMO. If Russell tests with his athleticism I think he passes Mudiay because the skill level (appears) to me that much greater. Mudiay went to China and had some good moments but was mostly hurt.

Fish, Mudiay does need to learn to shoot it better. But I don't think his shooting is as bad as they make it out to be. He shot 36% from three point line that isn't bad. His free throw shooting needs work but that is just repetition and he will get better with that. I mentioned this in another thread that Pippen wasn't a great shooter but he worked on it and got better with it. Here is Michael Jordan's scouting report coming out of college now I'm not saying Mudiay is Jordan I don't want to get that confused with anyone here.

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/16360