nixluva wrote:Nice Work s3231! You have actually added the missing context we needed. Gives you an idea of how the Media spins things to make it look like the Knicks are incompetent. Especially Isola who is actually going out of his way to clown on the Knicks and Phil.

The point Phil made bout pushing the ball fits with what i've been saying about the Triangle. It doesn't mean he only wants to play half court BB. In his own words he expressed that he wants his teams to push the ball and look for early offense long before he ever came to NY.

Phil Jackson:

I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.

the NBA is a guard dominated league. No big guy in this league can put pressure on a team like Golden State that runs its offense 25 feet from the hoop and in--no effect. They use a post presence but their high end assets were garnered by high draft picks. That team would be a shell without Curry and Klay.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Nice Work s3231! You have actually added the missing context we needed. Gives you an idea of how the Media spins things to make it look like the Knicks are incompetent. Especially Isola who is actually going out of his way to clown on the Knicks and Phil.

The point Phil made bout pushing the ball fits with what i've been saying about the Triangle. It doesn't mean he only wants to play half court BB. In his own words he expressed that he wants his teams to push the ball and look for early offense long before he ever came to NY.

Phil Jackson:

I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.

the NBA is a guard dominated league. No big guy in this league can put pressure on a team like Golden State that runs its offense 25 feet from the hoop and in--no effect. They use a post presence but their high end assets were garnered by high draft picks. That team would be a shell without Curry and Klay.

I think a more fleshed out statement by Phil would include having great perimeter defenders backed up by a rangy shot blocking big. Phil would have to be blind not to realize how teams are playing now. This style of offense isn't new. Suns, Spurs etc. played like this when he was still coaching. Phil has said he wants the Knicks to be a team that can play at a high level much like the Spurs, Warriors and Hawks. I think perhaps you're not giving him enough credit. Sounds like you have your mind made up that he's somehow out of touch. That would be a mistake to assume that.

BRIGGS wrote:This has the makings of the most epic boo bash in NYC sports history.

It's one thing to have pressure on a player but if we get pick 1 or close to it and take Stein under the sly--it will be marketing disaster of the most monumental proportions.

So now you've gone from saying we're trading the number 1 for KD, to we're picking Stein. I think Phil was basically saying Towns is his man.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This has the makings of the most epic boo bash in NYC sports history.

It's one thing to have pressure on a player but if we get pick 1 or close to it and take Stein under the sly--it will be marketing disaster of the most monumental proportions.

So now you've gone from saying we're trading the number 1 for KD, to we're picking Stein. I think Phil was basically saying Towns is his man.

I never said they were getting KD--I said I didnt think it was a good choice of avenue given that Durant has a potentially career ending problem. But I can read tea laves pretty well and he just described Willie Stein--in fact In know he did.

nixluva wrote:BRIGGS Let's say Phil is high on Stein. He could get him with a lower pick and thus if he was set on Stein he would be in a prime situation to trade back and get another pick. In terms of Stein's defense, he's a freak of nature in terms of being able to slow down perimeter players with his size and lateral quickness. Maybe that would be the right kind of big for the kind of defense you need to play now with all the spread offenses. I'm just playing devils advocate with your suggestion. It's still highly possible he was referring to Towns.

I don't think Phil would consider Towns a C and some of the things he described do not match Karl Towns. Everything he said matched Willie Stein. He basically told the fans we are taking Stein. That also could be from position #1. This is a done deal.

I do agree with Phil that we need a big guy who is not a defensive liability but I think there will be better options in FA or via trade than what Towns will give you. I also think the kid is just too young ( and soft) to play big man ball in the big city. So after flipping the top #1-#4 pick then you take the other assets from that trade and grab another couple of quality players this year and next.

I hope we get at least one lower pick out of that trade and with that pick i am taking Frank Kaminsky. I think after monday, when the dust settles and he's outplayed Towns, Stein and Okafor, people are going to think a little harder about him in 7 to 12 range. People have to stop comparing him to cats in past years. He's not like anybody we've really seen and with a weight/conditioning program, he will be at least an average defensive big man. Pair him with your strong defensive Center from the trade/FA and things ain't looking too bad at the 4/5. Maybe retain Jason smith or Aldich as 3rd Center. Avoid guys like monroe at all costs. Deandre jordan will not be coming under any circumstances.

What 's left to get in 2015?--alot but in order, I'd target:

1. a veteran starting PG.

2. a veteran starting SF

These guys should be defensive players first, scorers second. If you can get both, even better.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't understand "forget the triangle" talk, it only an option..Phil hired a coach with no experience with assistants specifically to run the triangle..He is trading players for nothing in return that so called don't fit the triangle...Now it's only an option??..Well can we get a real coach in here then and tell him the triangle is an option??

Phil isn't saying forget the Triangle as in they're abandoning it! He was saying that the media focused on it way too much. The Triangle is just a system of playing ball. Isola in particular is saying that Phil and the Knicks made out that it was all about the Triangle when Phil said any system could work but he liked the Triangle. Phil like's that the Triangle leads to unselfishness. He also said to Fish from the start that he is free to tweak the offense as he wishes and make it his own but that he wants the base to be the Triangle. Besides he wants the team to push the ball and look for early offense and only settle into the Triangle if nothing is there.

Seems to me that not only the Media but many fans are not even close to understanding what Phil has been talking about. No matter how many times I post the information it just gets ignored and people hear what they want to hear.

Cleamons - “Some coaches, they would irritate or disappoint me with some of their comments,” Cleamons, an assistant coach with the Milwaukee Bucks, said before a recent game against the Knicks. “We’ve never said that was the only way to play, or the best way to play. It’s just a way to play.”

Cleamons noted: “No matter what your system is, that’s got to be the first hurdle. So what’s happened with the triangle, because we won so much, it’s taken on a life of its own. But Tex always said that it’s basically a junior high school offense, based on the simple principle that any one of three positions — a guard, forward or center — can be your post player.

“At any time you can pass the ball to any of your four teammates, and if the defense takes any of those passes away, there’s a logical sequential action that takes place after that. If they take away all four passes, then you have an opportunity to drive the ball to the basket.”

Jackson has lamented how the N.B.A. game relies too heavily on the point guard to create off the dribble or a high screen. He espouses the near-rhythmic movement of five players to connect stars to their teammates.

Scott Williams, a center/forward who played for Jackson’s Bulls in the early 1990s and is an assistant coach for Milwaukee, credited the triangle with benefiting less-talented players.

“I had opportunities to have the basketball, make passes, make cuts, set picks,” he said. “It wasn’t just being parked out on an island like I was for the years after that when I went to Philly — all right, you two guys stand over here in the parking lot and when the shot goes up, try to get in there and give us an offensive rebound.”

Yet Mike Fratello, the television analyst who coached against Jackson during tenures in Atlanta, Cleveland and Memphis, said that many teams, including San Antonio, had incorporated triangle concepts related to positional strategy into their offenses. They just hate to admit it.

“Without question, there are pieces of it being used along with the other stuff they are running,” Fratello said.

Cleamons added: “You got a lot of teams now that run what they call elbow. Elbow is one of our strong-side actions. They’re all given new names, but many of these things are part of the triangle.”

I know that's not what he is saying..What I'm saying is that how could Phil not think they would emphasis it because it the basis of all Phil's hiring and trades...He can't be that tone deaf..

No he's assuming that people in the media aren't idiots and will understand context. They earlier talked about players fitting what the Knicks are doing. The media wants to create this narrative that Phil is totally out of touch and that he's out to prove that the Triangle is the key to everything, when it's just a means to an end and there are other systems and ways of playing. He just got finished praising the Spurs and how they played in the finals last year. He said that he wanted the Knicks to play team ball like that. He just isn't a big fan of ball dominant PG play with guys standing around. The focus has to be on the right kind of players and that doesn't mean they have to be Triangle guys, just that they have to have the right qualities.

holfresh wrote:Why waste a pick on Kaminsky when you an resign Bargs??..

Kaminsky actually passes the ball.

nixluva wrote:I thought the quote about Phil knowing who he'd take in the draft was interesting. Sounds like he has his board pretty much laid out. He agrees that the draft is a pretty talented crop. Hopefully he can get another pick somehow. I think he's gonna take a good hard look at anything that can increase his ability to get more talent.

It all sounds like media fluff and coach speak to me.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with Phil Jackson getting pitched slow fat softball questions from friendly media and him giving soft/safe answers.

The Knicks aren't going to avoid the big names in free agency. The big names in free agency will have choices and will likely not choose the Knicks. Better to say I don't want instead of I can't get. Not much different than finding some lonely chick on Valentines Day eating bon bons with her three just as unattractive friends saying how the holiday is so commercialized and that they are just as happy being alone. It's just reframing the issue of apparently and likely rejection.

Odds are the Knicks will have their pick fall into them via what's left on the board.

I still posit that Dolan could have saved himself 59 million on a GM and just hired some young gun to do the exact same thing, but cheaper and without the issue of protecting a personal career legacy.

Zen Master is extremely calculated with the media. It's the one thing where he's very excellent in general, his relationships and being able to handle the media, compared to a potential younger GM. I don't see any "mistake". I think he took a free shot at Amare, because it cost him nothing, and played it off as a slip of the tongue.

I mean what else is Phil going to say? I don't know yet?

Just seems like softball batting practice to me. Big fat slow pitches to hit. Big fat easy questions to serve up.

( Thanks S3231 for sharing and transcribing what you heard in the interview, much appreciated.)