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Woodson: If I were Knicks coach, I would’ve fought to keep Chandler
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smackeddog
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3/26/2015  4:34 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Dude came back IN-SEASON from a BROKEN LEG.

And led the Knicks to a 16-5 finish.

That was more Amare. Remember Tyson left the team for a handful of games late in the year and the reason was never disclosed. He was not fully engaged. The feud with Melo was too strong at that point

Jr Smith revealed tyson missed games at the end of the season because his mom was ill

AUTOADVERT
smackeddog
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3/26/2015  4:36 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Another non-franchise changing player.

Move on.

2013 - Tyson wins Defensive Player of the Year, Knicks go 54-28

2015 - Tyson traded, Knicks go 14-58 and counting.

I see a pretty big change there.

You missed a year.

The one where Tyson broke his leg and the team was terrible until Andrea broke his wrist and Tyson, JR and Shump all got healthy? It's been discussed.

I miss his playoff performances and his susceptibility to catch the flu and take months to recover

Splat
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3/26/2015  4:37 PM
crzymdups wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Dude came back IN-SEASON from a BROKEN LEG.

And led the Knicks to a 16-5 finish.

That was more Amare. Remember Tyson left the team for a handful of games late in the year and the reason was never disclosed. He was not fully engaged. The feud with Melo was too strong at that point

LOL you're making this a carmelo thing? you're starting to sound like splat.

if tyson gets disengaged because of his feelings being hurt by melo, then he truly is even more of a ***** than i thought.

Tyson wants to win. He knows what it is like to win AS A TEAM. It's not that his feelings were hurt. Although losing hurts a guy like Tyson more than most and that is what I respect most about him.

Isn't it funny that the Knicks keep having to get rid of players who do really well here because Melo hurt their feelings and the pro-Melo camp calls them soft? Fun pattern.

They better not pull that crap on Ledo

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gunsnewing
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3/26/2015  4:37 PM
I don't see why you would keep that a secret. So it was a legitmate reason. He didn't just quit on the team.
newyorknewyork
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3/26/2015  4:44 PM
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I had no problem trading Chandler. However i do have a problem at what Phil got back in the trade. Not only didnt he get a first round pick back but he also took on Calderon's contract. We all know Tyson loves dallas and plays his best there. So we gave Dallas a rejuvinated Tysoin plus we took a bad contract off their hands

+1

People thought Roy Hibbert was the best center in the NBA after what he did to Tyson Chandler.

Close thread.

Roy Hibbert was the best center in the NBA that season. By far. He had some weird depression issues or something and then this season was lost because of all their injuries (though they're still making the playoffs!) - but the guy is still a beast.

Tyson won defensive player of the year. Even if Hibbert was the best center in the NBA to do what he did to Tyson "NBA Champion" "Defensive player of the year". What did Tyson do for us in the playoffs the year before?

Tyson was drafted 2nd pick overall when he was drafted, never put in the work to develop his game. Won his Championship at the teams 5th best player. Hes a good role player. Just can't be relied on as one of your top 3 best players.

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crzymdups
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3/26/2015  4:48 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I had no problem trading Chandler. However i do have a problem at what Phil got back in the trade. Not only didnt he get a first round pick back but he also took on Calderon's contract. We all know Tyson loves dallas and plays his best there. So we gave Dallas a rejuvinated Tysoin plus we took a bad contract off their hands

+1

People thought Roy Hibbert was the best center in the NBA after what he did to Tyson Chandler.

Close thread.

Roy Hibbert was the best center in the NBA that season. By far. He had some weird depression issues or something and then this season was lost because of all their injuries (though they're still making the playoffs!) - but the guy is still a beast.

Tyson won defensive player of the year. Even if Hibbert was the best center in the NBA to do what he did to Tyson "NBA Champion" "Defensive player of the year". What did Tyson do for us in the playoffs the year before?

Tyson was drafted 2nd pick overall when he was drafted, never put in the work to develop his game. Won his Championship at the teams 5th best player. Hes a good role player. Just can't be relied on as one of your top 3 best players.

He was the second best player on the Mavs and the main reason the Knicks were able to play small during the season and win 54 games and advance to the second round for the first time since Dolan banished Camby and Spree for being moody.

¿ △ ?
mreinman
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3/26/2015  4:49 PM
lets not forget that Tyson was a complete no show in the playoffs for the knicks. that did not help his rep here.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
GetThePipe
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3/26/2015  4:50 PM
I don't understand this thread. I read that Tyson tried to convince Melo to come to Dallas, but this thread makes it out like they didn't like eachother at all.
smackeddog
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3/26/2015  4:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/26/2015  4:52 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I don't see why you would keep that a secret. So it was a legitmate reason. He didn't just quit on the team.

People are entitled to privacy. He quit on the team earlier than that, you could see he stopped bothering on defense and hated woodsons defensive schemes- he even blasted them to the media a few times.

mreinman
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3/26/2015  4:53 PM
GetThePipe wrote:I don't understand this thread. I read that Tyson tried to convince Melo to come to Dallas, but this thread makes it out like they didn't like eachother at all.

never believe anything that you read, especially in NY papers and that starts with believing that Tyson actually wanted Melo in Dallas.

I would bet that he strolled into the office and told them (Dallas), are you guys out of your effin minds?

Interesting that Dallas said "they decided to go in a different direction and realized that Melo was not for them"

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorknewyork
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3/26/2015  4:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/26/2015  4:56 PM
Lets see "NBA champion" superstar Tyson Chandler lead the Dallas Mavericks with Dirk, Parson, Ellis, Rondo to the finals.
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DrAlphaeus
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3/26/2015  5:25 PM
I'm actually interested in looking backwards now! Maybe folks can start digging up these articles and we can put together a Tyson Chandler as Bad Seed timeline and see if it holds up a year or two later or was just some BS?

I'm serious.

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newyorknewyork
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3/26/2015  5:43 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm actually interested in looking backwards now! Maybe folks can start digging up these articles and we can put together a Tyson Chandler as Bad Seed timeline and see if it holds up a year or two later or was just some BS?

I'm serious.

I know one of them was him not agreeing with switching on defense or something like that. But the evidence really is Phil Jackson wanting to dump him and Felton to improve the locker room or something like that.

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crzymdups
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3/26/2015  6:00 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm actually interested in looking backwards now! Maybe folks can start digging up these articles and we can put together a Tyson Chandler as Bad Seed timeline and see if it holds up a year or two later or was just some BS?

I'm serious.

I know one of them was him not agreeing with switching on defense or something like that. But the evidence really is Phil Jackson wanting to dump him and Felton to improve the locker room or something like that.

Yeah, but is "improve locker room" code for "make sure Melo re-signs"?

Tyson was furious about those remarks when he got to Dallas:

Chandler, who was dealt back to Dallas by the Knicks in June along with Raymond Felton in exchange for Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert and Shane Larkin, took exception to comments Jackson made in the wake of the trade on Friday in an interview with ESPN Dallas.

“I did nothing but try to help the culture there the three years I was there,” Chandler said. “You can say I didn’t live up to whatever, or you didn’t like the way I played or anything. But to ever question who I am and the type of leader I am in the locker room, I don’t even know where that came from.

“I honestly don’t know where that came from. I don’t know if Phil put that out there or who put that out there, but to me, that was the ultimate shock. And you don’t have to say that to get rid of me or to trade me. The trade is over.

“So to judge my character and what I’ve done, you can go look at all my teammates and ask all of my teammates in the past, and the coaches I’ve played for, and I’ve never been a problem and never had a problem. So that was a shock to me that I didn’t appreciate.”

Jackson, after completing the trade, said the deal was done, in part, to alter the chemistry of the team.
“To do that,” the Knicks president said, “we felt [it was] important to bring in some new personnel, and start with some character guys that we felt can carry this forward.

“Watching them play, I saw guys that looked at each other like, ‘You didn’t back me up, you weren’t here when I needed help.’ There just wasn’t the right combination or feel [where] it felt like everybody was in sync all the time.”

Chandler, the 2013 NBA Defensive Player of the Year with the Knicks, took exception to the possibility he could have been part of such a problem in the Knicks’ locker room last year.

“You can go to any of the staff members or anybody and ask them what kind of guy I was when I was there, and if I was the guy who was pushing for what is right all the time and they would tell you so,” Chandler said. “That more than anything in my career caught me off guard. I can stomach somebody saying he didn’t produce or whatever, and that’s just motivation. But a shot at someone’s character or professionalism, that’s a little far-fetched.”

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newyorknewyork
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3/26/2015  6:10 PM
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm actually interested in looking backwards now! Maybe folks can start digging up these articles and we can put together a Tyson Chandler as Bad Seed timeline and see if it holds up a year or two later or was just some BS?

I'm serious.

I know one of them was him not agreeing with switching on defense or something like that. But the evidence really is Phil Jackson wanting to dump him and Felton to improve the locker room or something like that.

Yeah, but is "improve locker room" code for "make sure Melo re-signs"?

Tyson was furious about those remarks when he got to Dallas:

Chandler, who was dealt back to Dallas by the Knicks in June along with Raymond Felton in exchange for Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert and Shane Larkin, took exception to comments Jackson made in the wake of the trade on Friday in an interview with ESPN Dallas.

“I did nothing but try to help the culture there the three years I was there,” Chandler said. “You can say I didn’t live up to whatever, or you didn’t like the way I played or anything. But to ever question who I am and the type of leader I am in the locker room, I don’t even know where that came from.

“I honestly don’t know where that came from. I don’t know if Phil put that out there or who put that out there, but to me, that was the ultimate shock. And you don’t have to say that to get rid of me or to trade me. The trade is over.

“So to judge my character and what I’ve done, you can go look at all my teammates and ask all of my teammates in the past, and the coaches I’ve played for, and I’ve never been a problem and never had a problem. So that was a shock to me that I didn’t appreciate.”

Jackson, after completing the trade, said the deal was done, in part, to alter the chemistry of the team.
“To do that,” the Knicks president said, “we felt [it was] important to bring in some new personnel, and start with some character guys that we felt can carry this forward.

“Watching them play, I saw guys that looked at each other like, ‘You didn’t back me up, you weren’t here when I needed help.’ There just wasn’t the right combination or feel [where] it felt like everybody was in sync all the time.”

Chandler, the 2013 NBA Defensive Player of the Year with the Knicks, took exception to the possibility he could have been part of such a problem in the Knicks’ locker room last year.

“You can go to any of the staff members or anybody and ask them what kind of guy I was when I was there, and if I was the guy who was pushing for what is right all the time and they would tell you so,” Chandler said. “That more than anything in my career caught me off guard. I can stomach somebody saying he didn’t produce or whatever, and that’s just motivation. But a shot at someone’s character or professionalism, that’s a little far-fetched.”

I don't know if Melo or Tyson had beef or not. I do know that there is 0 evidence of them having beef though. And that has been purely fan made by fans that don't like Melo.

Phil could have traded Tyson at the draft for a better package and still pleased Melo's desire to dump Tyson if true. There is more evidence that Phil after spending months with the team felt he needed to get Tyson off the team and undersold him due to his strong desire to get him off the team. If it was only to please Melo and he liked Tyson then he would have been more diligent.

There was also a comment way back when asked about the team that won 54 games. Phil made remark talking about how players have aged and aren't the same. So he might have just viewed Tyson as on the decline.

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DrAlphaeus
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3/26/2015  6:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/26/2015  6:12 PM
Yes, let's start this crzy! OK, so to answer your article about Chandler angry about his leadership being called into question, here's an article from last April where Chandler himself is questioning his own leadership!

http://nypost.com/2014/04/18/tyson-chandler-theres-a-lot-wrong-with-knicks/


Tyson Chandler’s brutally honest assessment of the Knicks
By Marc Berman April 18, 2014

Center Tyson Chandler said in a brutally harsh critique the Knicks need a raft of philosophical and strategic changes next season but not necessarily to the roster.
Chandler said the Knicks had the personnel to win big this year but didn’t establish a winning culture and he blamed the players and coaches. Chandler added he hopes Phil Jackson will bring that winning environment next season.

Chandler, who had been critical of the defensive schemes this season and has publicly wondered about his future as a Knick, added the game plans and game strategies also needs “altering’’ next season following the Knicks’ 37-45 disaster.

“A lot around here is made of personnel,” Chandler said after his exit meeting with Jackson on Thursday. “I don’t think that’s it. I personally think you have to bring a winning culture out here. Until that’s established, you can rotate players as much as you want, it’s not going to make a difference.”

When asked if last season’s 54-28 club had the right culture, Chandler, who could be a summer trade chip with his contract expiring, pointed out the team still got knocked out in the second round.
“We had a great season last year. Then again, one team wins a championship, the rest go home,” said Chandler. “My goal is to win another championship. I said that the moment when I came here fresh off a championship.”

Chandler’s remarks were possibly a dig at coach Mike Woodson’s leadership, but Chandler also took blame for not being a better leader.

“I feel everybody needs to go back and look in the mirror,” Chandler said. “Whatever players are here, whatever coaches are here. I’m not in position to say who stays, who goes. But whoever is going to be here next year needs to understand what happened this year and not allow history to repeat itself.”

The Knicks center claimed during the season the defensive schemes relied too much on switching on every pick-and-roll. Thursday, Chandler said the offense needs reshaping too. It appears Phil Jackson seems bent on hiring a new coach such as Steve Kerr who can implement the selfless triangle offense.

“We got to alter a lot of stuff,” Chandler said. “Offensively and defensively, quite honestly. If you don’t, you allow history to repeat itself. I expect a lot of changes. I expect to have a culture of identity of what we want to establish night in, night out next year. That’s the only way you build, to hang your hat on. Everyone has their weak spots, but you have to be great at something. I don’t think we found that this year.”
With Jackson in place, Chandler is confident it can be done.

“I don’t think you can find a better guy,” Chandler said. “He’s a lot more accomplished than myself or anybody else. I had the opportunity to experience [a title] once. He had the opportunity to experience it 13 times. I don’t think it gets better than that.”

“We all seen what Pat Riley’s been able to accomplish in Miami, not being coach, being upstairs,” Chandler added. “If you’re a winner, you’re a winner, and [that] bleeds down to others. That’s the one thing I hope.”

The exit interview with Jackson, Chandler said, focused entirely on technical issues he has to work on for next season, including his improved jumper, and not about the team’s future. “I could’ve been a better leader, more assertive, more aggressive,” Chandler said. “That’s something I have to learn from.”

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DrAlphaeus
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3/26/2015  6:21 PM
And here is the article talking about the defensive scheme switching — which folks here were complaining about — came after the MLK Day game in 2014 against the then-Kidd-led Nets. Note the storyline context: Coach Kidd and Nets in the Garden against Woodson who is getting "Fire Woodson" chants... and it's a Berman byline. Perhaps a bigger influence on our perception that we admit? Look at the words in quotes and compare to the ones — context or conjecture? — that aren't.

http://nypost.com/2014/01/20/knicks-destroyed-by-nets-in-latest-garden-embarrassment/


Chandler jabs at Woodson: Knicks ‘out-schemed’ by Kidd’s Nets
By Marc Berman January 20, 2014

This time, Tyson Chandler sounded off on Mike Woodson’s defensive schemes, suggesting his former teammate Jason Kidd won the coaching battle on Martin Luther King Day, and indicated the Knicks might want to reevaluate their approach.
Those were damning remarks to cap a nightmarish matinee in which the Nets took over Manhattan with Monday’s 103-80 destruction of the Knicks.

The Nets’ siege of the Garden was a complete and total embarrassment for Woodson and Knicks owner James Dolan, whose club is a wreck again at the season’s midpoint while the Nets are on the rise.
Dolan, thankfully for Woodson, is in Los Angeles, reopening The Forum he refurbished, as an opening act for The Eagles. Meanwhile, his Knicks (15-26) are in need of repair, having lost four straight — all by double digits — and on pace to win 30 games. The Nets (17-22) lead them by three in the standings after winning seven of their last eight.

Worse, the players appear concerned about Woodson’s defensive game plan and his X’s and O’s.

“They out-schemed us,’’ Chandler said.

Following Thursday’s disaster in Indiana, Carmelo Anthony said the coaching staff didn’t make any adjustments to Frank Vogel’s moves. On Monday, Chandler went deeper and all but questioned the defensive philosophy that involves constant switching.

There were chants of “Let’s Go Nets’’ and “Brooo-klyn’’ in the World’s Most Famous Arena, but also plenty of boos and a late “Fire Woodson’’ chant. None of the day’s events could be considered beneficial to Woodson’s job security.
Joe Johnson, not Carmelo Anthony, was the best player on the court as he scored 20 of his 25 points in the first half.

Chandler said Kidd and Johnson, who also played for Woodson, had a good idea on how to exploit the Knicks’ defense.

“They played to our defense as far as their offensive scheme, knowing our rotations, putting us in vulnerable situations,’’ Chandler said. “[They had us] switching a lot and taking our help guy out of the rotation, which led to a lot of corner 3s.”

Johnson feasted, setting up camp in the right corner and he drilled 4 of 8 3-pointers.

Asked if Kidd’s familiarity with the Knicks system played a role, Chandler said: “Sure it had a lot to do with it. He and Joe played in Woody’s system and knew how to exploit it. … We were one man short on the rotation. ’’
Chandler’s play hasn’t been exemplary. The Knicks were on a five-game winning streak when he was sidelined with bronchitis and have lost four straight since his return. Chandler didn’t have a field-goal attempt in his first 26 minutes of action, but he seems a lot more concerned about the defensive strategy.

He indicated Woodson’s switching schemes are not working.

“I don’t want to switch,’’ Chandler said. “I personally don’t like it. You come in with defensive plan and everybody mans up and takes up his responsibility. Switching should be a last resort and, no, I don’t think we’re built to switch everything.’’

Anthony didn’t want to get his hands dirty on the topic. When told of Chandler’s remarks, Anthony said: “On the defensive end we were just scrambling the whole game. They played to the mismatches. That’s something Jason does well even when he was here. They forced us to double-team. They were able to swing the ball and make open shots. We’re just not getting it done.’’

The sloppy Knicks couldn’t do anything right, including shoot free throws (21 of 33). It was a particularly grotesque day for point guard Raymond Felton, who shot 2 of 11 for nine points, and three turnovers to go along with porous defense.

Anthony finished with 26 points and 12 rebounds — more meaningless numbers — but he had no help. The club shot 33.8 percent for the game and committed seven of its 16 turnovers in the first quarter.
With Deron Williams (13 points, three assists) making his return from a five-game absence, Brooklyn has won seven of its 0last eight games, proving the preseason predictions they had surpassed Dolan’s team. The Nets are doing so without their best player, center Brook Lopez, who is out for the season.

Good for Kidd, who made his first Garden appearance since last spring’s disastrous playoff showing as Knicks point guard. Kidd’s Nets looked like a completely different club since their previous meeting Dec. 5 when the Knicks won by 30 at Barclays Center. That’s a 53-point swing.

“They got us in a rotation game where we were scrambling and we are one man short in terms of rotation,’’ Woodson said.

The issue is whether Woodson has a way of combating such exploitation. So far the record says no.

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DrAlphaeus
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3/26/2015  6:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/26/2015  6:39 PM
Let me throw Isola in the mix: quoting from a "source" in Jan 22, 2014 article about him having lunch with Mills, suggesting he was telling tales out of school to the GM team prez:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/woodson-confronts-chatty-knicks-center-chandler-source-article-1.1587197

Mike Woodson confronts Knicks center Tyson Chandler about critical comments: source

Tyson Chandler’s comments that were critical of Mike Woodson’s defensive schemes may have annoyed the head coach, but they certainly didn’t surprise him.

According to a team source, Woodson recently confronted Chandler about comments the veteran center made that could be interpreted as undermining the coach’s authority. It is unclear when that conversation took place, but it could have happened last week following a loss to the Indiana Pacers, when Chandler said “we didn’t make adjustments.”

That answer was in response to reporters asking Chandler to comment on Woodson’s claim that the Pacers simply outworked the Knicks. It was erroneously reported that Carmelo Anthony was criticizing Woodson when in fact Chandler took a subtle shot.

On Tuesday, Chandler backtracked and explained that his explosive comments following Monday’s 103-80 loss to the Brooklyn Nets were not being directed at Woodson. It sounded a lot like damage control since Chandler had claimed that the Nets “out-schemed” the Knicks. At best Chandler’s remarks indicated that he was praising rookie head coach Jason Kidd and taking a shot at Woodson.

...

It was around that same time that Chandler was spotted at the Knicks’ practice facility eating lunch with team president Steve Mills. That’s hardly a crime and not necessarily uncommon. But according to a source it was yet another reason for Woodson to be paranoid.

Mills was hired to replace Woodson’s friend and former college teammate, Glen Grunwald, and Mills has not been overwhelmed by Woodson’s job performance. The Daily News reported last week that both Dolan and Mills would like to see Woodson hold the players more accountable. That edict was followed by Woodson when he benched J.R. Smith against Charlotte for insubordination.

I'm posting these because I want to remember the context that the media had Tyson in, and suggest it was our beloved press corps who helped in part to devalue Tyson... or maybe Tyson himself not able to deal with big city media.

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nixluva
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3/26/2015  6:37 PM
Great work DrAlphaeus!
DrAlphaeus
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3/26/2015  6:54 PM
Nalod wrote:

End of season interview
Maybe it went like this:

Phil: Nice finish to the year! Great job with this team!
Woodson: Yes, just shook hands with the players to thank them!
Phil: All of them?
Woodson: Yeah? Of course.
Phil: Was Chandler there.
Woodson: Yeah? I said "all of them"!
Phil: did you wash your hands?
Woodson: Sure, whats on your mind?
Phil: You know Im running the Triangle going forward.
Woodson: Yeah, I was gonna show you some Idea's I have.......
Phil: About the triangle?
Woodson: Yeah, like this one (pulls out paper and draws) See in this one I take the ball, Tyson curls around and ......
Phil: Im sorry, did you say Tyson chandler?
Woodson: yeah, He gets the ball and shoots a 12 foot jumper......and then on this play......
Phil: Wait, you say "Shoots a 12 foot jumper"?
Woodson: Yeah. Whats so funny?
Phil: you like him don't you?
Woodson: Yes, I must insist we keep him.
Phil: Your gonna fight me on this?
Woodson: Uh, well, you know.......I dunno?
Phil: You can't.
Woodson: Well If I were knicks coach.....
Phil: We shape clay into a pot, it its the emptyness inside that holds what ever we want.
Woodson: As I was saying, If I was knick coach I'd.........
Phil: Your not.
Woodson: Thats cold.
Phil: The quickest way to failure is to please everyone.
Woodson: I should go, huh?
Phil: The Root of suffering is attachment
Woodson: Im confused!
Phil: Everything you want is on the other side of fear
Woodson: I feel so much love! Thank you!


11 months later:

Woodson: "If I were knicks coach, I would have fought for Chandler".............

Oh btw, hahaha!

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
Woodson: If I were Knicks coach, I would’ve fought to keep Chandler

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