Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Alexey shved at 135...and people have the nerve to say he is "barely an NBA player"

It just goes to show that the Knicks aren't as lost on this kind of stuff as it seems. Remember he wasn't some throw in on a trade. The targeted Shved. They made a separate deal for him using a Trade Exception that Phil got for Felton. So Felton did something good for the team on the way out.

We need for Phil to do even more with his cap space this summer and get a few more high impact players from this list. He won't have to overspend on one guy in order to get great value.

That comment would make sense if Shved was one of many impressive win share players Phil acquired, but not when Shved is the top WS player on the team. 14 of our 15 players have WS48 figures below the league average!

Some of his acquisitions are still developing and in addition not every player you CAN pick up is going to be at the highest levels. If that were the case every team would have several top tier players on the WS/48 list. It's a very small number of players and just how was Phil supposed to have collected a few of them to start this year? I understand what you're getting at but when he's been getting RID OF underperforming players in order to revamp the roster with higher performing players that would explain why there aren't more examples. Doesn't at make sense? Isn't the entire point of this thread to show that Phil will have a chance to bring in several of the very kind of players on this list?

The fact that he was able to get one for practically nothing is the point here and not that he hasn't yet added more. Perspective!

I wasn't disagreeing with the point of the thread - it's a good thread. I was disagreeing with the bold statement you made. Having 14 of 15 players below average would have to be seen as evidence contradicting, not supporting, your bold point.

Right but the point is not the lack of them but rather how could Phil have gotten those players. He didn't really have a lot of opportunities to grab a few of the players on this list and to be clear he would have to have been able to bring them in since there are only a few players in the league we're talking about. Now Tyson was here but he was also not really performing at that level for this team and so at the time he was viewed more as a poor fit due to his attitude about being on this losing team and his style of play. I could understand the thinking on moving him, even if they didn't get great value for him.

Still the idea coming in was that they would be waiting for this summer when they cleared cap and could bring in some high performance players. The lack of those players isn't an indication of his lack of ability or desire to bring in these types of players rather that we didn't really have them to begin with and he had to get rid of those players and look for ways to acquire those players. He's going to have his best shot to bring in these type of players this summer. That's the entire plan in Free Agency that Phil has been pointing too. He's not looking forward to grabbing players at the bottom or below the level of players on this list. He's already got a boatload of those players. Logic!

Bonn1997 wrote:BTW, Tyson Chandler is 2nd place in the FA WS48 rankings. You left him off.

My view on the roster being revamped is that there are multiple players who Phil can acquire who would reasonably be expected to have a major positive impact on the team. He has to target those players and fashion a roster that fits great together. With this list its clear that there should be 2-3 players he can add that would bring increased value to the team over the players we have now.

Even outside of the most expensive guys you have the younger group like Butler, Monroe, Ajinca, Draymond Green, Danny Green, Cory Joseph, Khris Middleton etc. who are less expensive due to their years in the league but they offer great value.

LivingLegend wrote:

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:C Towns
PF Monroe
SF Melo
SG Butler
PG Svhed

This is one of my favorite lineups. Towns and Butler seem like a great core for the future. Then add in Thanasis off the bench and you have some really serious defensive guys.

Agreed - landing Monroe/Butler in FA is probably as good as we could possibly hope to achieve considering our current condition and guy that will probably stick with their current squads.

Nice part - like you mentioned - is that Monroe is 24?, Butler 25? - Towns will be 20? --- nice young 3 piece to move forward with.

Agreed. Would love that group. It just seems like Butler isn't attainable at all, but i hope i'm wrong.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:BTW, Tyson Chandler is 2nd place in the FA WS48 rankings. You left him off.

Yes I did that on purpose. This year he's back at his high level of play but as I said above he was not in the best mental and physical state at the end of last year and I can understand why Phil would look to move him. He's not a player under consideration.

My view on the roster being revamped is that there are multiple players who Phil can acquire who would reasonably be expected to have a major positive impact on the team. He has to target those players and fashion a roster that fits great together. With this list its clear that there should be 2-3 players he can add that would bring increased value to the team over the players we have now.

Even outside of the most expensive guys you have the younger group like Butler, Monroe, Ajinca, Draymond Green, Danny Green, Cory Joseph, Khris Middleton etc. who are less expensive due to their years in the league but they offer great value.

They finished 16-5 last season once Tyson was finally healthy. 16 wins. aka more wins than this current team will win in its full season.

Trading Tyson was absolutely stupid. Any culture that allows a player that good to be unhappy is toxic in the extreme.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:BTW, Tyson Chandler is 2nd place in the FA WS48 rankings. You left him off.

Yes I did that on purpose. This year he's back at his high level of play but as I said above he was not in the best mental and physical state at the end of last year and I can understand why Phil would look to move him. He's not a player under consideration.

My view on the roster being revamped is that there are multiple players who Phil can acquire who would reasonably be expected to have a major positive impact on the team. He has to target those players and fashion a roster that fits great together. With this list its clear that there should be 2-3 players he can add that would bring increased value to the team over the players we have now.

Even outside of the most expensive guys you have the younger group like Butler, Monroe, Ajinca, Draymond Green, Danny Green, Cory Joseph, Khris Middleton etc. who are less expensive due to their years in the league but they offer great value.

They finished 16-5 last season once Tyson was finally healthy. 16 wins. aka more wins than this current team will win in its full season.

Trading Tyson was absolutely stupid. Any culture that allows a player that good to be unhappy is toxic in the extreme.

Yeah it was and from the outside it may have been hard for Phil to really know what the source was. Tyson did not have a good last year and a half with the Knicks. There's a reason the jokes about Flu Tyson were so prevalent. He was often only a shadow of himself and a sour puss. To be honest I could care less about the past at this point. It's all about what we can get done this summer. That's what this thread is about and i'd like to keep it on track rather than argue over spilled milk.

With the Knicks, the past is a pretty fair indicator of the future.

Tyson was the second best player on a team that WON an NBA championship. He was Defensive Player of the Year here. He was the anchor and main reason this team won 54 games two years ago. If you ask me, he was the biggest reason that 2012-13 team was very good. Carmelo had a better season in 2013-14 (37 wins) than he did in 2012-13 (54 wins). The big difference? Tyson broke his leg (not the flue) and missed half the season. And the team (at the behest of CAA so Melo could get back to playing SF instead of PF (which also led to the GM and architect of the team quitting)) stupidly traded a first round pick and Steve Novak (one of their best shooters and a perfect fit for their offense) to get Andrea Bargnani who was one of the worst Knicks I have ever seen.

Ignore the past at your own peril when it comes to the Knicks. The same things keep happening as long as Dolan is in charge. If we get to mid-July and the Knicks have a highly touted top three pick from this year's draft still on their roster, I will be surprised.

was doloan the one that fired woodson, or sent tyson to dallas, or jr and shump to cleveland for lunch meat. No, what he did is went out and hired a 11 time championship coach to build a championship roster. Im no dolan fan, but it's time we stop blaming him for every little thing that happens. It's like if someone misses a point blank shot, look no further than dolan.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:whats phils pitch going to be to FA

we think your a perfect fit for the triangle, although we have no core, no leader, a suspect coaching staff, and i'm dealing with a ton of health issues that keeps me away from the team, we feel that with our young 19 yr old rookie and melo, we'll be prime to make a run in 5 yrs.

what I can tell you for sure is that your minutes will be erratic as hell, the triangle takes at least a yr or 2 to truly grasp, and in the first 3 month of the season, if i see guys are not getting it, i will fire fish, dump a player or 2 or 3 for cap space and a 2nd rounder for 2016, because we have no picks as it stand now. So what do say, sounds like good plan Uh?

His pitch is we'll pay you more than any other team

lol..like we did amare

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:whats phils pitch going to be to FA

we think your a perfect fit for the triangle, although we have no core, no leader, a suspect coaching staff, and i'm dealing with a ton of health issues that keeps me away from the team, we feel that with our young 19 yr old rookie and melo, we'll be prime to make a run in 5 yrs.

what I can tell you for sure is that your minutes will be erratic as hell, the triangle takes at least a yr or 2 to truly grasp, and in the first 3 month of the season, if i see guys are not getting it, i will fire fish, dump a player or 2 or 3 for cap space and a 2nd rounder for 2016, because we have no picks as it stand now. So what do say, sounds like good plan Uh?

His pitch is we'll pay you more than any other team

lol..like we did amare

Jackson took over a talented Lakers team and immediately produced results as he did in Chicago. In his first year in L.A., the Lakers went 67–15 during the regular season to top the league. Reaching the conference finals, they dispatched the Portland Trail Blazers in a tough seven-game series and then won the 2000 NBA championship by beating the Indiana Pacers.

Phil can't promise the same result he got with the Lakers in year one but he can say that they can have success in year one and even more in years to come. Any Free Agent won't ever have to worry about getting top dollar when they're a Knick. Paying Melo was a signal to any Free Agent that here in NY they won't be cheap when it comes time to pay. Agents are well aware of this and will steer their young FA's towards this market. Phil can sell them on teaming up with other young talents here. We'll have our Pick and money to add more than one Free Agent. That could lead to a possible 3 Studs plus Melo.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:BTW, Tyson Chandler is 2nd place in the FA WS48 rankings. You left him off.

Yes I did that on purpose. This year he's back at his high level of play but as I said above he was not in the best mental and physical state at the end of last year and I can understand why Phil would look to move him. He's not a player under consideration.

My view on the roster being revamped is that there are multiple players who Phil can acquire who would reasonably be expected to have a major positive impact on the team. He has to target those players and fashion a roster that fits great together. With this list its clear that there should be 2-3 players he can add that would bring increased value to the team over the players we have now.

Even outside of the most expensive guys you have the younger group like Butler, Monroe, Ajinca, Draymond Green, Danny Green, Cory Joseph, Khris Middleton etc. who are less expensive due to their years in the league but they offer great value.

They finished 16-5 last season once Tyson was finally healthy. 16 wins. aka more wins than this current team will win in its full season.

Trading Tyson was absolutely stupid. Any culture that allows a player that good to be unhappy is toxic in the extreme.

I think Amare was much more a factor in that late surge than Tyson. I dont know what was said or what turned Phil off so much about Tyson. The right thing would have been to cut Felton, and keep Tyson as an asset (Mosgov fetched 2 picks) but thats easy to call now. People HATED Tyson last year... and that trade was further spoiled by Calderon going from the starting PG and shooting 50% on a 50 win Mavs team to being totally useless except to serve as Brigg's whipping boy. He also used Tyson to trade into the draft. Early has been hurt and a disappointment (last night he looked OK) and Thanisis had a good year in the D league. I get its nothing earth shattering but you traded for a floor general (which he was) and he couldnt stay on the floor and two 2d round prospects who are helping to build a pipeline.

The trade has been a fail, no arguement there... Im just saying I can see why Phil did it and those reasons arent bad. Hindsight says Phil sold low and bought high.

Tyson and Shump were the complete defense for that team. There was no other defense. JR put up better offensive numbers than Amar'e. Amar'e played well, too.

Those were our four best players other than Melo.

We gave them all away for absolutely nothing. They are key pieces on contenders now. Tyson starting for the sixth seed Mavs, Amar'e off the bench for offense. JR starting for the 2nd seed Cavs, Shump off the bench for defense.

I mean, the Calderon trade was one of the worst trades I have ever seen. I wasn't posting here at that point, but some beatwriters were calling it a "win-now" move, which I thought was laughable.

Phil's two trades have been two of the worst I've ever seen here.

Two sell low moves that netted absolutely zero in return.