Dagger wrote:

Splat wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, this is a profoundly stupid organization. It is the worst team in the NBA as a result. So talking about reasonable behavior in regards to these azzholes is completely unreasonable. Phil is a flunkie whore who sold his soul to Dolan. If you don't realize this by now, then you are truly lost in some kind of fantasy basketball realm that has no correlation to reality.

Phil has proven he is completely unqualified for this job. And Fish is clueless. And Dolan is the boss. Do the math. Stop bullchitting yourselves.

Watching Tyson play in Dallas tells you all you ever need to know about asset management. And that is coming from someone who was pizzed at Tyson for sandbagging the team. But I adjust. I realize the truth. Tyson is a winner. He was playing for aholes. He got out. And we got Calderon for him. This is a completely botched job and mismanaged franchise and Phil is not going to learn quickly enough to salvage his reputation. He'll get his pick. He has his pocket money. But he doesn't know his azz from his elbow when it comes to building a franchise.

Why don't you wait until the draft and free agency and then re-assess the situation instead of throwing a tantrum? Do you think you're better than the Knicks' instant gratification mindset of the last 15 years with that statement? You want to push Phil to the curb before he's even had his trial by fire, just like management has destroyed the team for the last decade every time Jimmy Dol cries out "this isn't working!!!!" and pines for a new toy. The best way to evaluate Phil as a GM/President is to let him have his big moment and see if the bird can fly. Until then, all this talk of him being a failure is premature and worthless.

“For me, right now it’s 1 and 1A,” said one exec, “and No. 1 is Towns. I’m not saying Towns is clear cut and I think the Knicks will have to do a lot of homework and studying. But both have great potential and high upside. Okafor is good offensively, you know he’s going to score. Towns will get better offensively but he could be really good on the defensive side of the ball."

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Splat wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, this is a profoundly stupid organization. It is the worst team in the NBA as a result. So talking about reasonable behavior in regards to these azzholes is completely unreasonable. Phil is a flunkie whore who sold his soul to Dolan. If you don't realize this by now, then you are truly lost in some kind of fantasy basketball realm that has no correlation to reality.

Phil has proven he is completely unqualified for this job. And Fish is clueless. And Dolan is the boss. Do the math. Stop bullchitting yourselves.

Watching Tyson play in Dallas tells you all you ever need to know about asset management. And that is coming from someone who was pizzed at Tyson for sandbagging the team. But I adjust. I realize the truth. Tyson is a winner. He was playing for aholes. He got out. And we got Calderon for him. This is a completely botched job and mismanaged franchise and Phil is not going to learn quickly enough to salvage his reputation. He'll get his pick. He has his pocket money. But he doesn't know his azz from his elbow when it comes to building a franchise.

Why don't you wait until the draft and free agency and then re-assess the situation instead of throwing a tantrum? Do you think you're better than the Knicks instant gratification mindset of the last 15 years with that statement? You want to push Phil to the curb before he's even had his trial by fire, just like management has destroyed the team for the last decade every time Jimmy Dol cries out "this isn't working!!!!" and pines for a new toy. The best way to evaluate Phil as a GM/President is to let him have his big moment and see if the bird can fly. Until then, all this talk of him being a failure is premature and worthless.

No tantrums were thrown. We are clearly the worst team in the NBA. We clearly have the least talent on our roster in the whole NBA.

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove what is completely obvious?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove the Tyson trade was an abomination of asset management?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove Phil Jackson clearly is not a competent GM thus far?

Before you try to throw shade and call someone hysterical, get your ducks in a row. This organization is pathetic. The onus is on those who would state otherwise, not those who state the basic reality of its current suckiness.

Phil has presented plenty to evaluate him upon. It's called Year 1. In Year 1, Phil is a steaming failure. So if you can't defend his year 1 report card, then spare us the silly personal attacks on those who pee on your glowing hopes for the future.

Man Dagger's post is spot on Splat.. this is the very definition of a tantrum. Phil sucks. Phil's a whore. Phil sold out. Anything esle is illogical and I have no skin in the game. How many posts in the same thread saying the same thing before tantrum is a fair word?

Phil has set up the Knicks for the most pivotal offseason possibly ever. What he's doing is NOT the same as the prior GMs and the guy gets his chance just like everyone in the business.

On the Melo factor.. you just get the BPA. I mean there isnt a top 5 pick that plays the same spot as him anyway so its moot, but the goal is a cornerstone player. Hopefully we get lucky. I mean its the draft.. you can do everything right, take the BPA and that guy could be Greg Oden or Brandon Roy.

Phil has said over and over again there are 180 FAs and the Knicks have a blueprint for the style of play they want to employ and the type of team/system they want to have.

Phil is a whore. A whore is someone who sells their flesh for money. Phil sold out. He did what Dolan wants in exchange for a big payday. He gave Dolan his glamour in exchange for money.

No tantrum. He's a whore.

And he's incompetent as a GM.

That's my POV. No hissy fits. That's how I see it. Like it or not.

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Splat wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, this is a profoundly stupid organization. It is the worst team in the NBA as a result. So talking about reasonable behavior in regards to these azzholes is completely unreasonable. Phil is a flunkie whore who sold his soul to Dolan. If you don't realize this by now, then you are truly lost in some kind of fantasy basketball realm that has no correlation to reality.

Phil has proven he is completely unqualified for this job. And Fish is clueless. And Dolan is the boss. Do the math. Stop bullchitting yourselves.

Watching Tyson play in Dallas tells you all you ever need to know about asset management. And that is coming from someone who was pizzed at Tyson for sandbagging the team. But I adjust. I realize the truth. Tyson is a winner. He was playing for aholes. He got out. And we got Calderon for him. This is a completely botched job and mismanaged franchise and Phil is not going to learn quickly enough to salvage his reputation. He'll get his pick. He has his pocket money. But he doesn't know his azz from his elbow when it comes to building a franchise.

Why don't you wait until the draft and free agency and then re-assess the situation instead of throwing a tantrum? Do you think you're better than the Knicks instant gratification mindset of the last 15 years with that statement? You want to push Phil to the curb before he's even had his trial by fire, just like management has destroyed the team for the last decade every time Jimmy Dol cries out "this isn't working!!!!" and pines for a new toy. The best way to evaluate Phil as a GM/President is to let him have his big moment and see if the bird can fly. Until then, all this talk of him being a failure is premature and worthless.

No tantrums were thrown. We are clearly the worst team in the NBA. We clearly have the least talent on our roster in the whole NBA.

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove what is completely obvious?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove the Tyson trade was an abomination of asset management?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove Phil Jackson clearly is not a competent GM thus far?

Before you try to throw shade and call someone hysterical, get your ducks in a row. This organization is pathetic. The onus is on those who would state otherwise, not those who state the basic reality of its current suckiness.

Phil has presented plenty to evaluate him upon. It's called Year 1. In Year 1, Phil is a steaming failure. So if you can't defend his year 1 report card, then spare us the silly personal attacks on those who pee on your glowing hopes for the future.

Man Dagger's post is spot on Splat.. this is the very definition of a tantrum. Phil sucks. Phil's a whore. Phil sold out. Anything esle is illogical and I have no skin in the game. How many posts in the same thread saying the same thing before tantrum is a fair word?

Phil has set up the Knicks for the most pivotal offseason possibly ever. What he's doing is NOT the same as the prior GMs and the guy gets his chance just like everyone in the business.

On the Melo factor.. you just get the BPA. I mean there isnt a top 5 pick that plays the same spot as him anyway so its moot, but the goal is a cornerstone player. Hopefully we get lucky. I mean its the draft.. you can do everything right, take the BPA and that guy could be Greg Oden or Brandon Roy.

Phil has said over and over again there are 180 FAs and the Knicks have a blueprint for the style of play they want to employ and the type of team/system they want to have.

Phil is a whore. A whore is someone who sells their flesh for money. Phil sold out. He did what Dolan wants in exchange for a big payday. He gave Dolan his glamour in exchange for money.

No tantrum. He's a whore.

And he's incompetent as a GM.

That's my POV. No hissy fits. That's how I see it. Like it or not.

we get it. However posing it over and over again doesnt make it true

Fine, see it as you wish. I'm all for expressing your viewpoint.

Irregardless of my take on his cashing in on his reputation, he has performed poorly as a GM. He has gotten pennies or dimes on the dollar for every asset traded, so perhaps you can excuse me for being pessimistic about his basic capabilities.

Now that we got that out of the way, can anyone actually make a case for Phil's competence as a GM? All I hear is a couple of folks pumping him as an icon, but most are silent and waiting on the off-season without committing an opinion yet.

Grading Phil thus far is perfectly valid. Anyone can grade him even if they don't buy into my take on his character. It doesn't matter if I think he whored himself to Dolan. It's an opinion. But surely people can judge one year on the job. Even if he redeems himself, he still has enough to be graded upon.

fishmike wrote:Somehow a thread about the Knicks draft pick digressed in debating the merits of Splat's view on Phil's whoredom. Lets move on from that.

“He’s really good now. Young, but he has it all. One thing he might lack is lateral quickness,” said one scout. “But he’s tough, he can score inside, he can take you out a little bit. He’s a good kid, works hard. I think he’s a major star when the time comes. A year with Mike Krzyzewski helps. He’s pro ready.”
For all his praise of Okafor, the scout also raved about Towns, especially his development from last year. So if the Knicks think big, and it’s not Okafor, then Kentucky’s Towns comes into play.
“For me, right now it’s 1 and 1A,” said one exec, “and No. 1 is Towns. I’m not saying Towns is clear cut and I think the Knicks will have to do a lot of homework and studying. But both have great potential and high upside. Okafor is good offensively, you know he’s going to score. Towns will get better offensively but he could be really good on the defensive side of the ball.

This is kind of what I have been saying... both are great prospects. One is great now. One has the potential to be great and possibly greater. My preference is to take the one who's more ready.

Okafor is not really an athlete. He’s a basketball player. He smart as anything, has huge hands, makes good passes.

This is the other thing I like about OK4. He's skilled. How many times have we seen guys with superior athleticism fail in the NBA. Guys who can destroy college players but when facing the nightly size and skill of NBA players that one trick doesnt work. Now Im not saying Towns is that guy, rather its not a worry with OK4. He impresses his will physically on his opponents, but he beats you with fundamentals. He always does the right thing.

I mean the only thing that keeps Marc Gasol from being the most coveted FA is his age, but he's one of the best bigs in the game, was DPOY and is simply NOT athletic. I posted his NBA draft profile (he's compared to Todd MacCulloch) because some people seem hung up on OK4's Al Jefferson comparison. This notion that OK4's inferior athleticism lowers his defensive abilities is giberish. With a 7'6 wingspan and his height and power and smarts I think the opposite. He will have growing pains but this is a huge powerful and long young man.

OK is such a good basketball player first, and an athlete 2nd. Guys like to talk metrics... OK4s are quite impressive. The NBA is becoming more and more a skill league.

Fish,

I'm starting to warm up to OK4 very slightly. I still can't get over Towns potential, but I also like when players can dominate without leaving the ground....Similar to Zach Randolph. These guys usually stay healthy longer because they don't have to use their athleticism to dominate....aka Tim Duncan. But isn't Kanter available? Asik? There seems to be plenty of post centers these days.

I just see a little Anthony Davis in Towns....And I think a Davis type big is exactly what every team is looking for, especially with all the small ball lineups and pick and roll plays.

OK4 will never be like Towns on defense. But Towns has the potential to be close to OK4 on offense. And that's just looking at Post Offense vs Post Defense. Towns also brings several intangibles that may or may not come up on the stat sheet. Pick and Roll is a top offensive play these days, due to all the dynamic guard play. Towns is the perfect big man to guard pick and rolls with the defensive instincts you need to dominate.

The Knicks have been loaded with 1 dimensional players for years now. In fact, since the Ewing era was over, we have looked like trash since. And one thing that's common over those years, is our lack of 2 way players! Now we have the chance to select one of the top 2-way bigs in the league (at the most critical position), and you're telling me we should pass on him, and pick up a low post scorer, even though low post scorers are loaded in this years free agent pool, and probably every year from this point forward? I rather pick a raw player like Towns now and buy a common low post scorer that every team has these days.....It's called supply and demand.

Now is the time to take the best 2-way big we have seen since Anthony Davis. Oh, by the way.....take a look at Kentucky's track record vs Dukes track record, in regards to their transition from college to the NBA. Kentucky breeds NBA players....Duke breeds NBA announcers.

The Knicks will have a top 4 pick in this draft. I don't see anything not to like in that top four. But as I have said before, if we get the #1 overall, we will pick KAT. He is the ideal fit for our team and the triangle. As blkexec and others have already asserted, KAT is also the best 2-way player to be available in the draft since Davis.

Now we just need the luck 'o the Irish.

I mean you draft OK4, and you ask him to do exactly what he did at Duke and over time expand his game. Can he do that at the NBA level? He certainly has the tools, but all you can ask is that he dominates his competition and he's doing that. He's the highest impact player in CBB hands down.

Towns... your asking him to do nothing he was doing in KY. He cant play defense the way he does there. The platoon system does not hold him accountable for the contstant foul trouble (5+ fouls per 36mins) so when I draft Towns Im pretty much saying forget everything you did at KY, it has no bearing in this league. Lets focus on what you can do. Its more a start from scratch. Towns is a good kid and the Knicks have scouted him very heavily, including in practice, but if he stumbles and has trouble adjusting there is no way to determine if he has the mental make up to push through sucking at basketball for as long as it takes.

Now we are hoping that Towns shows in these last 1-4 games that he can be the man, and more than a role player on a stacked team. Drafting a kid who's the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on his own college team does not strike me as the blueprint for a franchise player. That scares me. Im not predicting a bust, only saying one big red flag is there.

I mean if Towns is a bust, people will say we bought into the hype and ultimately drafted a guy who was the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team in a conference with no bigs. I mean he put up 10 points and 7 rebs against weak competition. Now there are a bunch of reasons (guns will post them all) why that doesnt matter. In hindsight we will be killing ourselves when one guy is showing it and the other is full of promise.

Thats my fear. Plain and simple. I can live with OK4 busting. It would suck, but it happens. But if Towns busts I picked a kid who put up 10/7 and wasnt the best player on his team. How do I sit with that? I cant... not with OK4 on the board. If we pick 3 and Towns is the BPA boom! Im good. Out of my hands. Taking Towns first has outsmarting ourselves written all over it.

gunsnewing wrote:I hope these arent knicks scouts. Comparing Towns to Tyson wow

You are so biased at this point its kinda not worth discussing with you. You have your mooby, I just hope if we take him your right.

fishmike wrote:blkexec, Im terrified of drafting a guy and expecting his whole game to change. You will never hear me deny Town's skill set. Im very very high on him as a prospect.

I mean you draft OK4, and you ask him to do exactly what he did at Duke and over time expand his game. Can he do that at the NBA level? He certainly has the tools, but all you can ask is that he dominates his competition and he's doing that. He's the highest impact player in CBB hands down.

Towns... your asking him to do nothing he was doing in KY. He cant play defense the way he does there. The platoon system does not hold him accountable for the contstant foul trouble (5+ fouls per 36mins) so when I draft Towns Im pretty much saying forget everything you did at KY, it has no bearing in this league. Lets focus on what you can do. Its more a start from scratch. Towns is a good kid and the Knicks have scouted him very heavily, including in practice, but if he stumbles and has trouble adjusting there is no way to determine if he has the mental make up to push through sucking at basketball for as long as it takes.

Now we are hoping that Towns shows in these last 1-4 games that he can be the man, and more than a role player on a stacked team. Drafting a kid who's the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on his own college team does not strike me as the blueprint for a franchise player. That scares me. Im not predicting a bust, only saying one big red flag is there.

I mean if Towns is a bust, people will say we bought into the hype and ultimately drafted a guy who was the 4th scorer and 2nd rebounder on a team in a conference with no bigs. I mean he put up 10 points and 7 rebs against weak competition. Now there are a bunch of reasons (guns will post them all) why that doesnt matter. In hindsight we will be killing ourselves when one guy is showing it and the other is full of promise.

Thats my fear. Plain and simple. I can live with OK4 busting. It would suck, but it happens. But if Towns busts I picked a kid who put up 10/7 and wasnt the best player on his team. How do I sit with that? I cant... not with OK4 on the board. If we pick 3 and Towns is the BPA boom! Im good. Out of my hands. Taking Towns first has outsmarting ourselves written all over it.

Sounds like we agree 99% of the time. Both are great prospects. We will see who the knickd pick

gunsnewing wrote:I hope these arent knicks scouts. Comparing Towns to Tyson wow

Stein is the player similar to Chandler, although some seem to think that his highlight reel dunks make him different.

Have not seen the lateral movement Chandler has when I've watched Towns, but Towns already has a more polished offensive game than Tyson, and he's only going to get better.

If Towns really does have the defensive mobility Chandler has, you have to take him because his offensive game is only going to get better.

Guys like Jefferson, boozer, Emeka & Randolph are traded and bounce around the league best they not complete players but are solid and have long NBA careers