BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns.

You are trying to compare college kids to professional basketball players..There are no comparison...Towns???
But to answer your question, Jabari Parker is a superior player to OK4..Would you have Parker take the last shot over Melo??..No..

Yeah, I was just playing along in my previous comment. This whole thread is ridiculous. Okafor has rarely (if ever?) gone up against someone even at the level of Cole Aldrich.

Bonn you uderstand right--that we could pull many rookies out of this years crop who would instantly be starters on the current Knicks. I know Jason Smith is in the pros-but I think Willie Stein would start over him pretty quickly--dont you? Langston Galloway who was not drafted is our starting 2 guard less than 1 year removed from St Josephs.

Yea I don't get that. Maybe it's sarcasm

gunsnewing wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns.

You are trying to compare college kids to professional basketball players..There are no comparison...Towns???
But to answer your question, Jabari Parker is a superior player to OK4..Would you have Parker take the last shot over Melo??..No..

Yeah, I was just playing along in my previous comment. This whole thread is ridiculous. Okafor has rarely (if ever?) gone up against someone even at the level of Cole Aldrich.

Bonn you uderstand right--that we could pull many rookies out of this years crop who would instantly be starters on the current Knicks. I know Jason Smith is in the pros-but I think Willie Stein would start over him pretty quickly--dont you? Langston Galloway who was not drafted is our starting 2 guard less than 1 year removed from St Josephs.

Yea I don't get that. Maybe it's sarcasm

You could pull out many players from the WNBA that could start on the Knicks too.

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo.

Absolutely--there is no doubt that Towns is guy who could be scoring much more if given the right opportunity--everything you said is true in your post. Ive said the same thing. Ive just become convinced in the last few games that Okafor is the safer bet. I kind of went over to KAT for a week--but I saw the light--and NOTHINg to diminish on Towns.

I simply view OK4 as a generational bigman, and more of a sure thing. He draws a double with every touch, and makes very good passes out of it. When he's not he scores at will.

I was at party hosted at a banquet hall and got to watch the Duke/SD State game. Ive seen more of Towns than OK4, so I really wanted to get a feel for how bad OK4 was on defense. To be fair he wasnt challenged very much, however the one thing I noticed he does like a text book is box out. Everytime a shot went up he put his huge body on a SD defender to keep him off the boards. Now OK4 only finished with 6 boards, however I cant tell you how many times the defensive board was easily scooped up by Winslow or one of the guards. OK4 can definatly make plays on defense. The worst thing about OK4 is some dummy on NBA draft compared him to Al Jefferson, which is just silly.

helloharv wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If knicks are picking #1 OK4 will not be the #1 pick

Why do you say this?

Phil and I spoke at length on the phone last night. He assured me that Towns will be the #1 pick

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns.

You are trying to compare college kids to professional basketball players..There are no comparison...Towns???
But to answer your question, Jabari Parker is a superior player to OK4..Would you have Parker take the last shot over Melo??..No..

Yeah, I was just playing along in my previous comment. This whole thread is ridiculous. Okafor has rarely (if ever?) gone up against someone even at the level of Cole Aldrich.

Bonn you uderstand right--that we could pull many rookies out of this years crop who would instantly be starters on the current Knicks. I know Jason Smith is in the pros-but I think Willie Stein would start over him pretty quickly--dont you? Langston Galloway who was not drafted is our starting 2 guard less than 1 year removed from St Josephs.

Yea I don't get that. Maybe it's sarcasm

You could pull out many players from the WNBA that could start on the Knicks too.

No doubt lol

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo.

Absolutely--there is no doubt that Towns is guy who could be scoring much more if given the right opportunity--everything you said is true in your post. Ive said the same thing. Ive just become convinced in the last few games that Okafor is the safer bet. I kind of went over to KAT for a week--but I saw the light--and NOTHINg to diminish on Towns.

this is me. Im following Towns as closely as anyone here. Ive watched entire KY games to watch him. Ive DVRd about 10 others and watched parts. He grew up close by to me so Ive heard his name for a long time. Towns is a wonderful prospect. WONDERFUL. There isnt a single thing I cant picture him becoming good at. He's already and excellent passer, defender, has a good jumper shot, is tough kid, etc etc

I simply view OK4 as a generational bigman, and more of a sure thing. He draws a double with every touch, and makes very good passes out of it. When he's not he scores at will.

I was at party hosted at a banquet hall and got to watch the Duke/SD State game. Ive seen more of Towns than OK4, so I really wanted to get a feel for how bad OK4 was on defense. To be fair he wasnt challenged very much, however the one thing I noticed he does like a text book is box out. Everytime a shot went up he put his huge body on a SD defender to keep him off the boards. Now OK4 only finished with 6 boards, however I cant tell you how many times the defensive board was easily scooped up by Winslow or one of the guards. OK4 can definatly make plays on defense. The worst thing about OK4 is some dummy on NBA draft compared him to Al Jefferson, which is just silly.

I observed the same thing. As far as the comparison to Jefferson, well Ok4 is 6'11" vs 6'8". OK4 is just so much bigger than Jefferson that will be a tremendous difference in the pros.

blkexec wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

helloharv wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If knicks are picking #1 OK4 will not be the #1 pick

Why do you say this?

Phil and I spoke at length on the phone last night. He assured me that Towns will be the #1 pick

We have too many open threads debating who to pick, now theres nothing to talk about. Oh wait, still have to fill out the other 13 slots. With so many debates, you would think this pick is going to solve world hunger.

I just called Phil and got his away message. Something about he annual something or another in the mountains of Montana and needing to get away from the team and clear his mind after Larkin's 45mins last night.

BigRedDog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo.

Absolutely--there is no doubt that Towns is guy who could be scoring much more if given the right opportunity--everything you said is true in your post. Ive said the same thing. Ive just become convinced in the last few games that Okafor is the safer bet. I kind of went over to KAT for a week--but I saw the light--and NOTHINg to diminish on Towns.

this is me. Im following Towns as closely as anyone here. Ive watched entire KY games to watch him. Ive DVRd about 10 others and watched parts. He grew up close by to me so Ive heard his name for a long time. Towns is a wonderful prospect. WONDERFUL. There isnt a single thing I cant picture him becoming good at. He's already and excellent passer, defender, has a good jumper shot, is tough kid, etc etc

I simply view OK4 as a generational bigman, and more of a sure thing. He draws a double with every touch, and makes very good passes out of it. When he's not he scores at will.

I was at party hosted at a banquet hall and got to watch the Duke/SD State game. Ive seen more of Towns than OK4, so I really wanted to get a feel for how bad OK4 was on defense. To be fair he wasnt challenged very much, however the one thing I noticed he does like a text book is box out. Everytime a shot went up he put his huge body on a SD defender to keep him off the boards. Now OK4 only finished with 6 boards, however I cant tell you how many times the defensive board was easily scooped up by Winslow or one of the guards. OK4 can definatly make plays on defense. The worst thing about OK4 is some dummy on NBA draft compared him to Al Jefferson, which is just silly.

I observed the same thing. As far as the comparison to Jefferson, well Ok4 is 6'11" vs 6'8". OK4 is just so much bigger than Jefferson that will be a tremendous difference in the pros.

With only an inch difference, comparing OK4 to Al Jefferson is legit, according to Draft express.

(OK4) 2014 NBA Pre-Draft Camp
Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
6' 9.5--------------6' 10.75------------272-------7' 5-----------9' 2.5"-------------NA-----------NA------------NA

(Al Jefferson) 2004 NBA Pre-Draft Camp
Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
6' 8.5--------------6' 9.75-------------263-------7'2.5----------9' 2-----------NA---------28.5-----30.0

From DraftExpress.com

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo.

Absolutely--there is no doubt that Towns is guy who could be scoring much more if given the right opportunity--everything you said is true in your post. Ive said the same thing. Ive just become convinced in the last few games that Okafor is the safer bet. I kind of went over to KAT for a week--but I saw the light--and NOTHINg to diminish on Towns.

this is me. Im following Towns as closely as anyone here. Ive watched entire KY games to watch him. Ive DVRd about 10 others and watched parts. He grew up close by to me so Ive heard his name for a long time. Towns is a wonderful prospect. WONDERFUL. There isnt a single thing I cant picture him becoming good at. He's already and excellent passer, defender, has a good jumper shot, is tough kid, etc etc

I simply view OK4 as a generational bigman, and more of a sure thing. He draws a double with every touch, and makes very good passes out of it. When he's not he scores at will.

I was at party hosted at a banquet hall and got to watch the Duke/SD State game. Ive seen more of Towns than OK4, so I really wanted to get a feel for how bad OK4 was on defense. To be fair he wasnt challenged very much, however the one thing I noticed he does like a text book is box out. Everytime a shot went up he put his huge body on a SD defender to keep him off the boards. Now OK4 only finished with 6 boards, however I cant tell you how many times the defensive board was easily scooped up by Winslow or one of the guards. OK4 can definatly make plays on defense. The worst thing about OK4 is some dummy on NBA draft compared him to Al Jefferson, which is just silly.

I observed the same thing. As far as the comparison to Jefferson, well Ok4 is 6'11" vs 6'8". OK4 is just so much bigger than Jefferson that will be a tremendous difference in the pros.

With only an inch difference, comparing OK4 to Al Jefferson is legit, according to Draft express.

(OK4) 2014 NBA Pre-Draft Camp
Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
6' 9.5--------------6' 10.75------------272-------7' 5-----------9' 2.5"-------------NA-----------NA------------NA

(Al Jefferson) 2004 NBA Pre-Draft Camp
Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
6' 8.5--------------6' 9.75-------------263-------7'2.5----------9' 2-----------NA---------28.5-----30.0

From DraftExpress.com

right.. so Al Jefferson is a 17/10 career guy who shoots about 50%. Now picture a taller, more skilled and much longer (7'2 vs 7'5 wingspan) player than Al.

To me the big thing to look for is how you stack up against your peers. Its what made judging HS players and Euro's very hard. HS players are always going to dominate, and the Euro guys dont get to play when they are young so both were tough to judge.

Does OK4 dominate his competition? I mean his #s are Shaq like. You can scrutinize every part of his game trying to figure who will be best but both are winners, both play good team basketball, and both are have excellent size and skills. One is destroying his opponents at a record pace. The other is playing his role. Makes the choice very difficult (assuming there is a choice).

great post

BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:Joakim Noah easily...

Not a chance. hes giving up forty pounds and were talking 19 year old legs vs 30.