mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Greg Monroe is really not a bad player and I think Stat guys would even agree. Offensively his 1st two years where extremely positive but then he dipped down for two years and now after Josh Smith dismissal he has picked his game back up.

The problem will always be defense and finding guys that can fit around him that also fit well with his teammates abilities. Then you have to decide if you want to play mega money for that kind of player. If the knicks could get Towns then he could possibly be that guy because he would not clutter the lane for M&M(Melo & Monroe) but he can cover for those on D as a shot blocker and a player who can switch and guard 3-5.

In my opinion Monroe is not a Max player and not a player that would be my first choice but at $10-13m he would be a good get.

I agree with your take. He is a good player but no way a max.

would you take him over draymond green? Not a freakin chance.

I'm not a fan of his attitude but you take Green because of his defense and ability to provide offense.

However, if you can't get Green what do you do? You can keep the space clear or you can sign the younger player to a contract a few million over your wanted price? The exploding cap will help the sting and because of that he becomes a trade asset in case bigger fish want to come early and not wait.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Greg Monroe is really not a bad player and I think Stat guys would even agree. Offensively his 1st two years where extremely positive but then he dipped down for two years and now after Josh Smith dismissal he has picked his game back up.

The problem will always be defense and finding guys that can fit around him that also fit well with his teammates abilities. Then you have to decide if you want to play mega money for that kind of player. If the knicks could get Towns then he could possibly be that guy because he would not clutter the lane for M&M(Melo & Monroe) but he can cover for those on D as a shot blocker and a player who can switch and guard 3-5.

In my opinion Monroe is not a Max player and not a player that would be my first choice but at $10-13m he would be a good get.

I agree with your take. He is a good player but no way a max.

would you take him over draymond green? Not a freakin chance.

Green is restricted though- I don't see him being an option. There are many other players I would rather max out (e.g. Jimmy Butler), but the reality is Monroe is the most obtainable. He's not perfect, but he's okay, and like I said his max contract will seem better when the cap rises.

However, I'm saying all this assuming we draft Towns- if we draft Russell or OK4 then Monroe makes no sense.

Yeah ... I know that Dray is a pipe dream but I hope we give it a shot.

I am not really a capologist and I don't know how it fits in this year with maxing out players.

If we overpay because we are not worried about the cap that I hope we overpay for the right players, and, I don't care if we do nothing and wait for 2016 if we have to.

Lets go for Milsap who is a winning player, go all in for Dragic and Draymond ... go all in for difference makers.

Hell if we are gonna go after Monroe then lets just go all in for love

I like Milsap a lot, but I do worry about him declining with age- that's pretty much my only concern with him.

The problem with this offseason is every player is going to get overpaid (more so than normal), because they will all be factoring in the cap rising from $66mil to $90mil. That essentially reduces a contract signed by around a third relative to the percentage of cap space it takes up. So a $15mil contract would be like a $10mil contract.

crzymdups wrote:The cap hasn't gone up yet. And owners don't want it to go up. I think it's a mistake to think the cap will go up to $90M. I think it's far more likely there will be an epic lockout in 2017 or before.

right ... I would hope that the off season is business as usual and not too speculative.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Greg Monroe is really not a bad player and I think Stat guys would even agree. Offensively his 1st two years where extremely positive but then he dipped down for two years and now after Josh Smith dismissal he has picked his game back up.

The problem will always be defense and finding guys that can fit around him that also fit well with his teammates abilities. Then you have to decide if you want to play mega money for that kind of player. If the knicks could get Towns then he could possibly be that guy because he would not clutter the lane for M&M(Melo & Monroe) but he can cover for those on D as a shot blocker and a player who can switch and guard 3-5.

In my opinion Monroe is not a Max player and not a player that would be my first choice but at $10-13m he would be a good get.

I agree with your take. He is a good player but no way a max.

would you take him over draymond green? Not a freakin chance.

Green is restricted though- I don't see him being an option. There are many other players I would rather max out (e.g. Jimmy Butler), but the reality is Monroe is the most obtainable. He's not perfect, but he's okay, and like I said his max contract will seem better when the cap rises.

However, I'm saying all this assuming we draft Towns- if we draft Russell or OK4 then Monroe makes no sense.

Yeah ... I know that Dray is a pipe dream but I hope we give it a shot.

I am not really a capologist and I don't know how it fits in this year with maxing out players.

If we overpay because we are not worried about the cap that I hope we overpay for the right players, and, I don't care if we do nothing and wait for 2016 if we have to.

Lets go for Milsap who is a winning player, go all in for Dragic and Draymond ... go all in for difference makers.

Hell if we are gonna go after Monroe then lets just go all in for love

I like Milsap a lot, but I do worry about him declining with age- that's pretty much my only concern with him.

The problem with this offseason is every player is going to get overpaid (more so than normal), because they will all be factoring in the cap rising from $66mil to $90mil. That essentially reduces a contract signed by around a third relative to the percentage of cap space it takes up. So a $15mil contract would be like a $10mil contract.

we also don't need max players. Some mid / young efficient / low usage players would be the better route.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Greg Monroe is really not a bad player and I think Stat guys would even agree. Offensively his 1st two years where extremely positive but then he dipped down for two years and now after Josh Smith dismissal he has picked his game back up.

The problem will always be defense and finding guys that can fit around him that also fit well with his teammates abilities. Then you have to decide if you want to play mega money for that kind of player. If the knicks could get Towns then he could possibly be that guy because he would not clutter the lane for M&M(Melo & Monroe) but he can cover for those on D as a shot blocker and a player who can switch and guard 3-5.

In my opinion Monroe is not a Max player and not a player that would be my first choice but at $10-13m he would be a good get.

I agree with your take. He is a good player but no way a max.

would you take him over draymond green? Not a freakin chance.

Green is restricted though- I don't see him being an option. There are many other players I would rather max out (e.g. Jimmy Butler), but the reality is Monroe is the most obtainable. He's not perfect, but he's okay, and like I said his max contract will seem better when the cap rises.

However, I'm saying all this assuming we draft Towns- if we draft Russell or OK4 then Monroe makes no sense.

Yeah ... I know that Dray is a pipe dream but I hope we give it a shot.

I am not really a capologist and I don't know how it fits in this year with maxing out players.

If we overpay because we are not worried about the cap that I hope we overpay for the right players, and, I don't care if we do nothing and wait for 2016 if we have to.

Lets go for Milsap who is a winning player, go all in for Dragic and Draymond ... go all in for difference makers.

Hell if we are gonna go after Monroe then lets just go all in for love

I like Milsap a lot, but I do worry about him declining with age- that's pretty much my only concern with him.

The problem with this offseason is every player is going to get overpaid (more so than normal), because they will all be factoring in the cap rising from $66mil to $90mil. That essentially reduces a contract signed by around a third relative to the percentage of cap space it takes up. So a $15mil contract would be like a $10mil contract.

we also don't need max players. Some mid / young efficient / low usage players would be the better route.

I prefer the idea of targeting 2nd and 3rd tier players, but like I said, I'd give strong consideration to putting Monroe next to Towns.

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The cap hasn't gone up yet. And owners don't want it to go up. I think it's a mistake to think the cap will go up to $90M. I think it's far more likely there will be an epic lockout in 2017 or before.

Cap goes up the season before a lock out (cap explodes in the 2016 offseason, i.e. next year, and there's nothing the owners can do about it to stop it as it's based on revenues boosted by the new tv deal). Earliest they can lock out is the 2017 offseason.

There's a lot more than nothing they can do about it. The owners are doing everything they can to not let the cap go up to $90M. It's going to be a battle. This is a good article about where the stalemate is:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25102738/nba-union-again-reach-stalemate-on-how-to-set-salary-cap

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We can always wait for Durant/Davis and strike out again

or we can just ejaculate early like always.

You trade MONROE for Anthony Davis if he shakes loose. There's absolutrlely no downside to adding MONROE now even if it takes $15per. We dealt with the blackhole often injured amare for 5yrs. MONROE is a much better rebounder and passer. I'm sure he is better defensively too since amare had the worst defensive instincts. He is also young & durable.

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:Careful what you wish for. Guy is going to want a 4 year deal. That pretty much determines the fate of the franchise when you're locked into Melo and Monroe as your frontline. If he is less than truly excellent, you'll be so very sorry with this guy. The possibility of a major disappointment with Monroe would be greater than not IMO.

This is not true at all. The cap is set to go up to 80-90 mil next year. Monroe at 16 mil per year is good value even if he doesn't improve and stays a 16/10 player that he has been the last few seasons and plays almost every game. Or he can improve and become a 20/10 all-star in this system. Point is you are getting a player who has some upside and almost no downside for what will be considered significantly less than market value in a couple of years.

So even if he is sub-par who cares, right?, because hey the cap will be so much fatter. Having money to spend doesn't mean it gets spent well.

But he is not sub-par. He has been at the very least a consistent double-double, low post threat the past 5 years. Why would that suddenly change? He is as consistant as consistant gets the past 4-5 years. Your reasoning makes no sense. He is a low risk player. You stated if he is less than excellent it's poor value, and i dispute that. 16 mil per year for a 16/10 player who shoots 50% from the field and has proven to be a very good passer and high IQ player is a bargain in the new salary cap figures. If you have some specific reason you feel he will begin to decline at 24 years old, then that's another topic.

RK	PLAYER	                TEAM	GP	PPG	FGM	FGA	FGM	FGA	FG%	2PM	2PA	2P%	PPS	FG%
1	Anthony Davis, PF	NO	55	24.6	9.6	17.7	526	971	.542	525	961	.546	1.39	.542
2	Amir Johnson, PF	TOR	65	9.4	4.0	7.0	263	457	.575	248	421	.589	1.34	.592
3	Derrick Favors, PF	UTAH	63	16.3	6.7	12.3	419	776	.540	419	774	.541	1.33	.540
4	Paul Millsap, PF	ATL	65	16.9	6.2	12.8	400	834	.480	330	640	.516	1.32	.522
5	Kevin Love, PF	        CLE	65	16.7	5.5	12.9	360	837	.430	238	500	.476	1.30	.503
6	Greg Monroe, PF	        DET	64	16.0	6.2	12.4	395	796	.496	395	796	.496	1.29	.496
 	Blake Griffin, PF	LAC	54	22.2	8.6	17.3	467	932	.501	459	911	.504	1.29	.505
8	Tim Duncan, PF	        SA	62	14.2	5.6	11.3	349	702	.497	348	696	.500	1.26	.498
 	Kenneth Faried, PF	DEN	62	11.9	4.7	9.5	293	587	.499	292	580	.503	1.26	.500
10	Pau Gasol, PF	        CHI	65	18.4	7.3	14.7	473	957	.494	463	937	.494	1.25	.499
 	Dirk Nowitzki, PF	DAL	65	17.4	6.4	14.0	417	909	.459	327	670	.488	1.25	.508
12	Nene Hilario, PF	WSH	58	11.2	4.7	9.0	272	524	.519	271	519	.522	1.24	.520
 	Brandon Bass, PF	BOS	67	10.5	4.2	8.5	283	568	.498	275	544	.506	1.24	.505
14	Zach Randolph, PF	MEM	57	16.4	6.5	13.4	371	761	.488	366	747	.490	1.23	.491
15	Donatas Motiejunas, PF	HOU	67	11.8	4.9	9.7	326	652	.500	280	528	.530	1.21	.535
16	LaMarcus Aldridge, PF	POR	59	23.5	9.3	20.0	548	1182	.464	519	1104	.470	1.17	.476
 	Ryan Anderson, PF	NO	52	14.6	5.1	12.5	266	651	.409	155	327	.474	1.17	.494
 	Serge Ibaka, PF	        OKC	64	14.3	5.8	12.3	374	786	.476	297	581	.511	1.17	.525
19	Luis Scola, PF	        IND	66	9.3	3.7	8.1	247	532	.464	242	515	.470	1.15	.469
 	Carlos Boozer, PF	LAL	64	12.3	5.4	10.7	348	686	.507	348	686	.507	1.15	.507

I have not seen a single person make a case for why putting Monroe next to Melo will work.

Melo doesn't make anyone around him better. You absolutely need players who do to start next to him. Put together a group of one-dimensional or one-way players and you're just engaging in the same team building practices this sloppy franchise has engaged in for 15 years.

Splat wrote:I love how people keep pulling up stats to justify whom to sign. Metrics are actually secondary to chemistry. Even good statistics will be lost if the player doesn't match up well with existing players.

I have not seen a single person make a case for why putting Monroe next to Melo will work.

Melo doesn't make anyone around him better. You absolutely need players who do to start next to him. Put together a group of one-dimensional or one-way players and you're just engaging in the same team building practices this sloppy franchise has engaged in for 15 years.

Monroe is a great passing big man who operates best in the low post. He is a great rebounder. Does not crowd Melo and vice-versa. He is not Amare. He has the potential to be a good compliment to Melo. If people are convinced Amare never had a chance to co-exist with Melo, than Monroe brings a different look and should satisfy most.

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:I love how people keep pulling up stats to justify whom to sign. Metrics are actually secondary to chemistry. Even good statistics will be lost if the player doesn't match up well with existing players.

I have not seen a single person make a case for why putting Monroe next to Melo will work.

Melo doesn't make anyone around him better. You absolutely need players who do to start next to him. Put together a group of one-dimensional or one-way players and you're just engaging in the same team building practices this sloppy franchise has engaged in for 15 years.

Monroe is a great passing big man who operates best in the low post. He is a great rebounder. Does not crowd Melo and vice-versa. He is not Amare. He has the potential to be a good compliment to Melo. If people are convinced Amare never had a chance to co-exist with Melo, than Monroe brings a different look and should satisfy most.

I agree. He is way better than Amare. It would certainly be a major upgrade and I understand this would make people happy, but if opposing offenses start ripping through that frontline his offensive contributions will be very easy to minimize. It is a major issue.