holfresh wrote:We are 14-53 and can't be extending guys on this team to career contracts...That doesn't even happen on Championship teams...We need a complete roster re-do...We can pick up Shved's option and move on...Time for a complete re-load..

You get better by drafting guys, by signing smart FA, by getting Melo healthy, but also by developing from within. There are guys worth keeping. They're going to add a ton of new players, at least two or three of whom will be focal points... but these guys on the edges are important, too. This is the depth for next season. This is by and large the team. They'll add Melo, maybe a Towns, maybe a Monroe, maybe a Stuckey - but even if they add all four of those guys - they'd still need 11 more guys to fill out the roster.

WaltLongmire wrote:* -Anthony F ---have a strange feeling that he's a lock to be back
* -Early F ---want to see if he can develop, but could see him used in some kind of trade
?-Calderon G---gone for a 2nd round pick
*? -Hardaway G/F ---still curious about him- gone if packaged with Calderon for a #1

* -Shved G ---got to see if he is for real- won't get into a bidding war for him, though
-Acy F ---not the defender I though he was- he'd be playing more if Phil wanted him
* -Galloway G ---keeper- big fan of this kid from early on- expect more from him next year
?* -Wear F ---still think they like him, although many of you guys don't. Another system player

*? -Smith F/C ---think they want him back at the right price- good in this system
* -Amundson F ---has earned a spot- good guy to have around- I bet he will be better offensively next year
?* -Thomas F ---he is not a terrible player, despite inconsistencies, but he can be duplicated
*? -Aldrich C ---with regular playing time he has looked like a good 3rd string 5
*? -Bargnani F/C ---on the cheap- this is a great system for him. Anything above 4.5M/yr you let him walk
? -Larkin G ---maybe end of the bench spark plug, but I don't think so. Size is too much of a factor

14 guys listed here. I actually expect about 8-10 of them will be back next year. You have our Greek to put into the mix, and the French kid will hopefully play with our SL team. I expect some of these guys to get better offers from other team, and Phil will let them walk.

Agree with the short term contract concept, for the most part.

Obviously, trades, FA availability, and the draft are figured into all of this, but I have no idea how that is going to work out.

I like Wear too. I thought he played well last night. Hes got good size for the 3 and has a lot of confidence in his own play. He might be able to dip in as 15th man. One thing Walt--the cap is supposed to move up to 92mm the following year. Money we pay out to these guys--it really wont be big money. There will be no more MLE for 4-5mm--if you have a player who produces int hat range--like a Schyvd--I think you commit to it for 3-4 years. You dont want to go into a position where a lot of these cheaper guys are all free agents at once--id rather lock 4-5 of them down for 2-4 years.

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Briggs, you are a good posters but I disagree with most of your numbers and some of the players you want to obtain.

Alexy Shved is doing well in NY but this is not a Lin situation where his market is going to go up. A 2yr deal with the second yr optional would be okay. The knicks will retain his bird rights then can sign him to a larger contract in 2016 after he proves he will dedicate himself to the gym and his craft(shooting/decision making).

Lou Amundson is a 32 year old hustle player. You do not give out money from your cap for guys like him. He is a vet minimum guy. Also, next year will be his 10th year. The Vet min. for 10 yr vets will be just under $1.5m. So, why hurt yourself by giving an extra 300k?

Cole Aldrich can barely play 2 minutes with out turning fuchsia. He is another vet minimum player and is definately not worth $3m.

Bargs sucks.

Now you just wasted $7m for the center position when you could potentially spend $7m on Kostos Koufos.

Larkin unfortunately seems to short to play the pg in the triangle. He has problem with post entry passes.

Kanter no.

Will Barton is a now because you do not try to outbid Denver for that kind of player.

Everyone will have their own opinion. Ill start off with the players from our team--

Shevyd--Im not offering Alex 3 years 24mm like Houston did for LIn. Im offering him 4 years 18mm and willing to go up a bit--thats a fair contract and one he will get from another team. I want Alex back--there is no doubt. 4.5-5.0 seems fair and reasonable

Aldrich--Aldrich at 2mm per for 3 years is good business. While he might not be fancy hes a VERY solid player who should be able to continue to improve. Because he might not be highly valued--I can keep him--and that really saves me money--would I rather have Cole at 2 or others for 5-7 that do the same thing---no brainer. Cole is under rted and can be used in a quality way. I like cohesion and I want to keep him No doubt about it not a huge move but the right move.

Lou Admundson--again a no brainer I dont care if hes 42 if he can do what hes done for the Knicks this year 1.8mm per for 2 seems very fair and reasonable--hes earned it. Again cohesion character hustle production for low cost. No brainer not a even a thought.

Larkin is a give and take--Ill take iof I can t find a third PG thats all he is--I keep the cohesion of teammates if I cant find a rookie or other player I give him the two years the same reason--want to keep the same guys together--again give or take depending--not any big news here either way.

Bargs--its pretty simple 1 year take it or leave it 1 year 4mm--if he get get more money elsewhere good bye.

Free agents

Pretty simple plan

We need a low block player who can command double teams who can score 20 points and grab 10-12 rebounds and when not open find the open man. Kanter is that. The Only way to get him is by offering him a maximum deal and putting intense pressure on OKC financially to match. If I draft Jahill I still want Kanter. Ill just pair up each with Cole and Admundson.

Stuckey--Ive followed him a lot this year. I love him for this team. Combo PG/SG willing high quality ball mover rebounder much improved mechanics on his 3 ball explosive efficient scorer--6th man of the year written all over him. We need to outspend Indy for his services and Im willing to go to 7.5mm for 3 max out but 6.75 would be my goal.

Barton--upside young athletic player who has shown he can really play. Priority 1 with him if defense hes long athletic. Hes been a pro for 3-4 years and now just showing signs of being a real good NBA baller--this is all wishful thinking because at 3+mm DEnver will match--but Id try. The Knicks may not even think this route and I could understand why with Thansis and the other kid from Europe. Im going on NBA production--hes already been producing

Simple pla keep cohesion bring in a power post bri8nmg in a high quality combo guard who we can use as sixth man and an athletic defender--get the rest from rookie draft etc..

Monroe offers a little more than Kanter if you want to pay max. But a few days ago you wanted to avoid paying max money to everyone, and evenly spreading out the money to fringe-starters and bench guys. You are a little confusing. Still, i like Monroe and Kanter, especially Monroe. I have since the start of all this talk.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:We are 14-53 and can't be extending guys on this team to career contracts...That doesn't even happen on Championship teams...We need a complete roster re-do...We can pick up Shved's option and move on...Time for a complete re-load..

You get better by drafting guys, by signing smart FA, by getting Melo healthy, but also by developing from within. There are guys worth keeping. They're going to add a ton of new players, at least two or three of whom will be focal points... but these guys on the edges are important, too. This is the depth for next season. This is by and large the team. They'll add Melo, maybe a Towns, maybe a Monroe, maybe a Stuckey - but even if they add all four of those guys - they'd still need 11 more guys to fill out the roster.

How has Monroe impacted his team??..Why would we want to throw a max contract at a guy that isn't an impact winning player?..I not saying don't keep them but at reasonable deals..All these guys are replaceable..No way I throw money at them that is being suggested..

MS wrote:We don't have any big time talent on the roster, but there seems to be some valuable character guys and bench players that we can mix into a rotation next year.

I think Amundson is a good insurance piece that can bang and do dirty work and will be a nice 4th big off the bench for this team. Thomas is a 12/13th man type that every team needs. Good character that doesn't need to play and will be a professional.

Galloway is a piece that can be key 7-8th rotation player and provide some much needed defense. He has some heart and appears to have guts when the game is on the line. Shved has a few things we haven't seen here in a few years, but is still raw. I don't think we have much to worry about from other teams. PG is the deepesst position in this league. Have to like him getting to the line and his court vision appears to be improving. He just needs to be a more conistent shooter. Fringe starter to backup point guard.

THJR I don't believe will ever be a player in this league. He doesn't defend, his shot selection is terrible and his instincts for the game just aren't there. He is young, so we can hope he puts it together, but strikes me as someone that is fairly impressed with himself and won't make the necessary changes to his game. Could be wrong, but those guys I think get roster spots next season.

You can see why Tim Hardaway Sr was so hard on Jr. He saw early on he lacked the drive to be truly great. Sr said it got so ugly that it was tearing the family apart and ultimately he had to back off.

Hindsight he should've kept pushing THJ or maybe he just is what he is.

I'd rather trade calderon in a package To the Bobcats if they desperately want out his his deal.

At least we get a useful player who might flourish in the system. Calderon is useless

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$9mil is not bad. Right around what Jimmy Butler will get. If Phil feels Lance would fit the system and get back to playing good 2-way ball I'd be all for it.

If we trade the. Calderon & THJ even better!!

not bad? Ifs fukkin suicide ...

Maybe if we got back 2 first rounders along with that.

I swear that people are losing their minds ... take on a 9 million guys who was one of the worst players in the league this year? Are you kidding me (not you specifically, guns)?????????

You look at Lance's #s he was progressing beautifully in literally every category and he defends. I dont know why Cha has been such a bad fit but he can certainly use a change of scenery and should be really motivated to say the least.

A one year $9mm commitment shouldnt be the scare off your making it to be

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$9mil is not bad. Right around what Jimmy Butler will get. If Phil feels Lance would fit the system and get back to playing good 2-way ball I'd be all for it.

If we trade the. Calderon & THJ even better!!

not bad? Ifs fukkin suicide ...

Maybe if we got back 2 first rounders along with that.

I swear that people are losing their minds ... take on a 9 million guys who was one of the worst players in the league this year? Are you kidding me (not you specifically, guns)?????????

it comes down to the order of when this is considered... if this is the first move we make, say on draft day I have to agree, its pretty dumb. However if we whiff on the big FAs, Lance might be an option. It entirely possible all the tier1 FAs are either resigned or just reject our offers. When that happens you start looking at creative options. Lance for 1 year (his last year is a team option) has a lot of merit. He's had a terrible Calderon type year so its a buy low. If its a bad fit your looking at a 1 year rental and as an expiring contract with a 1 year team option he should be an attractive contract come trade deadline.

You look at Lance's #s he was progressing beautifully in literally every category and he defends. I dont know why Cha has been such a bad fit but he can certainly use a change of scenery and should be really motivated to say the least.

A one year $9mm commitment shouldnt be the scare off your making it to be

You know what? I did not realize that year 3 was a team option. If that is the case then I could care less if they get him next year (without giving anything up) as long as we have already whiffed on everyone else.

IMHO, his mind set is not what we want for our culture. If we had a true alpha leader then it would make more sense (e.g. Jordan/Rodman, Kobe/Artest ...)

we can't afford for him to come in here and make trouble. And, who says that he has the capacity to learn/accept the triangle? He is in the JR smith / idiot mold. Super Duper Talent and terrible mental makeup. How does a mentally tough player just fold like this on a new team? He has become one of the worst players in the game this year.

That's a valid argument against adding Lance - this team does not have a leader. Melo is just never going to be one, it's not in his makeup.

That's a big problem with FA for this team - can we import a veteran leader? A Jason Kidd or Chauncey Billups type? I was hoping Calderon could be that guy, but it's clear he's not.

But it's been shown that Melo really needs that type of player on the floor for him. His best seasons were with Kidd and Billups (in Denver). I had thought Tyson was a leader, but you could really see him strain under the load of that once Kidd and (to a far lesser extent) Sheed left.

As much as this team needs an influx of Tier 1 and Tier 2 guys, we need some leadership on the floor. Weirdly, I feel like Galloway could be that type, but I fear he'll defer to Melo too much once Melo is back.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$9mil is not bad. Right around what Jimmy Butler will get. If Phil feels Lance would fit the system and get back to playing good 2-way ball I'd be all for it.

If we trade the. Calderon & THJ even better!!

not bad? Ifs fukkin suicide ...

Maybe if we got back 2 first rounders along with that.

I swear that people are losing their minds ... take on a 9 million guys who was one of the worst players in the league this year? Are you kidding me (not you specifically, guns)?????????

it comes down to the order of when this is considered... if this is the first move we make, say on draft day I have to agree, its pretty dumb. However if we whiff on the big FAs, Lance might be an option. It entirely possible all the tier1 FAs are either resigned or just reject our offers. When that happens you start looking at creative options. Lance for 1 year (his last year is a team option) has a lot of merit. He's had a terrible Calderon type year so its a buy low. If its a bad fit your looking at a 1 year rental and as an expiring contract with a 1 year team option he should be an attractive contract come trade deadline.

You look at Lance's #s he was progressing beautifully in literally every category and he defends. I dont know why Cha has been such a bad fit but he can certainly use a change of scenery and should be really motivated to say the least.

A one year $9mm commitment shouldnt be the scare off your making it to be

You know what? I did not realize that year 3 was a team option. If that is the case then I could care less if they get him next year (without giving anything up) as long as we have already whiffed on everyone else.

IMHO, his mind set is not what we want for our culture. If we had a true alpha leader then it would make more sense (e.g. Jordan/Rodman, Kobe/Artest ...)

we can't afford for him to come in here and make trouble. And, who says that he has the capacity to learn/accept the triangle? He is in the JR smith / idiot mold. Super Duper Talent and terrible mental makeup. How does a mentally tough player just fold like this on a new team? He has become one of the worst players in the game this year.

That's a valid argument against adding Lance - this team does not have a leader. Melo is just never going to be one, it's not in his makeup.

That's a big problem with FA for this team - can we import a veteran leader? A Jason Kidd or Chauncey Billups type? I was hoping Calderon could be that guy, but it's clear he's not.

But it's been shown that Melo really needs that type of player on the floor for him. His best seasons were with Kidd and Billups (in Denver). I had thought Tyson was a leader, but you could really see him strain under the load of that once Kidd and (to a far lesser extent) Sheed left.

As much as this team needs an influx of Tier 1 and Tier 2 guys, we need some leadership on the floor. Weirdly, I feel like Galloway could be that type, but I fear he'll defer to Melo too much once Melo is back.

exactly how I feel.

I think the only guy who can be that guy is Dragic and Riley effed that one up :-(

maybe Gasol could be that guy too but we probably have little chance at his as well though I think we may have a better chance than people think ... he is my sleeper.

Overpaying? Maybe but the new cap will surely soften that.