Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

Stat's issues were related to his knee surgery. His contract couldn't be insured because of the extent of his knee injury. Phoenix wouldn't give him the years he wanted because their doctors said he wouldn't be able to play that long. Not a smart signing but I think Walsh felt like he had to come away with something. Too bad he put the franchise in a bad position cap wise for the 4 years Stat struggled to overcome injuries and play.

Do we know for sure Walsh was the driving force behind Amare's signing? There has been a consistent imperative from Dolan to make expensive signings first and foremost. I think it is pretty clear Walsh was pushed aside in the Denver negotiations and I recall numerous reports of internal rumblings well before that pertaining to Dolan bullying Walsh. If you recall, Dolan never let Walsh hire who he wanted to help run the team, so I have no reason to buy into any narrative putting Walsh as the prime driver for signing Amare to an uninsured contract. That was not prudent in the least and Walsh was an old school guy. It doesn't add up that Walsh would take that kind of risk without internal job pressures goading him into doing it.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

Stat's issues were related to his knee surgery. His contract couldn't be insured because of the extent of his knee injury. Phoenix wouldn't give him the years he wanted because their doctors said he wouldn't be able to play that long. Not a smart signing but I think Walsh felt like he had to come away with something. Too bad he put the franchise in a bad position cap wise for the 4 years Stat struggled to overcome injuries and play.

Do we know for sure Walsh was the driving force behind Amare's signing? There has been a consistent imperative from Dolan to make expensive signings first and foremost. I think it is pretty clear Walsh was pushed aside in the Denver negotiations and I recall numerous reports of internal rumblings well before that pertaining to Dolan bullying Walsh. If you recall, Dolan never let Walsh hire who he wanted to help run the team, so I have no reason to buy into any narrative putting Walsh as the prime driver for signing Amare to an uninsured contract. That was not prudent in the least and Walsh was an old school guy. It doesn't add up that Walsh would take that kind of risk without internal job pressures goading him into doing it.

Splat wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Splat wrote:Anyway, I was asking because it just seems to consistently glossed over when discussing Phil Jackson. It is like some think he walks on water, but signing Melo was a total clusterfuk. How can he not be considered seriously misguided for this?

It was among his terrible moves but we don't know he full story, perhaps the one condition on Phil getting the driver's seat from Dolan was that he had to resign Melo no matter what, and Melo being Melo, he took advantage of hit and got himself a huge contract. Dolan proabbly wanted to make money with viewership so that could be a potential reason. In general it was the epitome of utter stupidty, but we as fans don't know the whole story, we can only speculate.

*I'm not justifying Phils actions*

per bold above ..... that is not a good spin for Phil then

I do think Phil whored himself out to Dolan to get $60M, so I don't doubt that is the most likely scenario.

After all, Phil tried to mind game Melo into taking less and then he bend over for Melo with a dumbass fat contract with a no trade clause and an obscene trade kicker. That doesn't exactly communicate being in control of the situation.

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

Stat's issues were related to his knee surgery. His contract couldn't be insured because of the extent of his knee injury. Phoenix wouldn't give him the years he wanted because their doctors said he wouldn't be able to play that long. Not a smart signing but I think Walsh felt like he had to come away with something. Too bad he put the franchise in a bad position cap wise for the 4 years Stat struggled to overcome injuries and play.

Do we know for sure Walsh was the driving force behind Amare's signing? There has been a consistent imperative from Dolan to make expensive signings first and foremost. I think it is pretty clear Walsh was pushed aside in the Denver negotiations and I recall numerous reports of internal rumblings well before that pertaining to Dolan bullying Walsh. If you recall, Dolan never let Walsh hire who he wanted to help run the team, so I have no reason to buy into any narrative putting Walsh as the prime driver for signing Amare to an uninsured contract. That was not prudent in the least and Walsh was an old school guy. It doesn't add up that Walsh would take that kind of risk without internal job pressures goading him into doing it.

We know it was Walsh's plan to move contracts at all cost to get cap space. He traded the Knicks lottery pick and a top 3 protected pick to move Jeffries. At that point there was no reporting of Dolan meddling. Walsh had to come away with something. I think it was down to Amare and Boozer.
I am almost positive that Walsh signed Amare. I also am positive that D'Antoni was Walsh's hire. Nothing on Walsh's Knicks resume that would make me think he wasn't behind signing Amare.

So what was that bizarre crap where Dolan publicly thanked Isiah at the Stoudemire signing press conference for helping with recruiting Stat? You're telling that doesn't smell of Dolan meddling with Walsh?

Splat wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Splat wrote:Anyway, I was asking because it just seems to consistently glossed over when discussing Phil Jackson. It is like some think he walks on water, but signing Melo was a total clusterfuk. How can he not be considered seriously misguided for this?

It was among his terrible moves but we don't know he full story, perhaps the one condition on Phil getting the driver's seat from Dolan was that he had to resign Melo no matter what, and Melo being Melo, he took advantage of hit and got himself a huge contract. Dolan proabbly wanted to make money with viewership so that could be a potential reason. In general it was the epitome of utter stupidty, but we as fans don't know the whole story, we can only speculate.

*I'm not justifying Phils actions*

per bold above ..... that is not a good spin for Phil then

I do think Phil whored himself out to Dolan to get $60M, so I don't doubt that is the most likely scenario.

After all, Phil tried to mind game Melo into taking less and then he bend over for Melo with a dumbass fat contract with a no trade clause and an obscene trade kicker. That doesn't exactly communicate being in control of the situation.

True, I think Melo realized that he had full control of the situation since he knew it was a priority that he had to be designed and he showed no mercy.

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

Stat's issues were related to his knee surgery. His contract couldn't be insured because of the extent of his knee injury. Phoenix wouldn't give him the years he wanted because their doctors said he wouldn't be able to play that long. Not a smart signing but I think Walsh felt like he had to come away with something. Too bad he put the franchise in a bad position cap wise for the 4 years Stat struggled to overcome injuries and play.

Do we know for sure Walsh was the driving force behind Amare's signing? There has been a consistent imperative from Dolan to make expensive signings first and foremost. I think it is pretty clear Walsh was pushed aside in the Denver negotiations and I recall numerous reports of internal rumblings well before that pertaining to Dolan bullying Walsh. If you recall, Dolan never let Walsh hire who he wanted to help run the team, so I have no reason to buy into any narrative putting Walsh as the prime driver for signing Amare to an uninsured contract. That was not prudent in the least and Walsh was an old school guy. It doesn't add up that Walsh would take that kind of risk without internal job pressures goading him into doing it.

We know it was Walsh's plan to move contracts at all cost to get cap space. He traded the Knicks lottery pick and a top 3 protected pick to move Jeffries. At that point there was no reporting of Dolan meddling. Walsh had to come away with something. I think it was down to Amare and Boozer.
I am almost positive that Walsh signed Amare. I also am positive that D'Antoni was Walsh's hire. Nothing on Walsh's Knicks resume that would make me think he wasn't behind signing Amare.

So what was that bizarre crap where Dolan publicly thanked Isiah at the Stoudemire signing press conference for helping with recruiting Stat? You're telling that doesn't smell of Dolan meddling with Walsh?

You really think that Dolan was behind the Stat signing? Walsh couldn't get any of his targets to come to NY. You don't clean house of young players and draft picks for cap space and then get nothing. We disagree here. Also, the only reason Walsh left NY in my opinion was because the deal Dolan offered him was a huge pay cut.

But you didn't answer my question. How could Dolan pull that stunt at the press conference and have not been driving the signing of Stat? It is bloody obvious.

Sure, there was a desperation to sign somebody after losing out on Lebron, but that all falls back to Dolan's M.O. anyway. He's the dude who needed the big splashy signing to sell to the public after Walsh cleared the cap space. Saying Walsh pushed to give out a 5 year uninsurable contract defies logic. Only Dolan does insane stuff like that. Walsh was an old pro. He did his job, but when it came to the big moments, Dolan meddled big time.

If you can tell me with a straight face that Dolan could say what he did about Isiah at the press conference and reconcile that with Walsh being the driving force in signing Stat, then I'll sign over my deed to the Brooklyn Bridge to you.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:So nobody knows of a contract to a 30 year old comparable to Melo's?

LA will get it this year.

Lebron would have gotten it obviously.

Amare? He had the legs of a 40 year old.

Chris Bosh was a pretty big contract.

Stat was an old body, but wasn't Amare around 27 years old when we signed him? He had wear on him, because he came into the league when he was still wearing diapers.

Bosh goes down.

Lebron may have shown signs of wear this year. His next contract could be another calculated risk. He's got plenty of mileage on him too.

Seems like the no long contract rule over a certain age is just a good policy.

Stat's issues were related to his knee surgery. His contract couldn't be insured because of the extent of his knee injury. Phoenix wouldn't give him the years he wanted because their doctors said he wouldn't be able to play that long. Not a smart signing but I think Walsh felt like he had to come away with something. Too bad he put the franchise in a bad position cap wise for the 4 years Stat struggled to overcome injuries and play.

Do we know for sure Walsh was the driving force behind Amare's signing? There has been a consistent imperative from Dolan to make expensive signings first and foremost. I think it is pretty clear Walsh was pushed aside in the Denver negotiations and I recall numerous reports of internal rumblings well before that pertaining to Dolan bullying Walsh. If you recall, Dolan never let Walsh hire who he wanted to help run the team, so I have no reason to buy into any narrative putting Walsh as the prime driver for signing Amare to an uninsured contract. That was not prudent in the least and Walsh was an old school guy. It doesn't add up that Walsh would take that kind of risk without internal job pressures goading him into doing it.

We know it was Walsh's plan to move contracts at all cost to get cap space. He traded the Knicks lottery pick and a top 3 protected pick to move Jeffries. At that point there was no reporting of Dolan meddling. Walsh had to come away with something. I think it was down to Amare and Boozer.
I am almost positive that Walsh signed Amare. I also am positive that D'Antoni was Walsh's hire. Nothing on Walsh's Knicks resume that would make me think he wasn't behind signing Amare.

So what was that bizarre crap where Dolan publicly thanked Isiah at the Stoudemire signing press conference for helping with recruiting Stat? You're telling that doesn't smell of Dolan meddling with Walsh?

You really think that Dolan was behind the Stat signing? Walsh couldn't get any of his targets to come to NY. You don't clean house of young players and draft picks for cap space and then get nothing. We disagree here. Also, the only reason Walsh left NY in my opinion was because the deal Dolan offered him was a huge pay cut.

But you didn't answer my question. How could Dolan pull that stunt at the press conference and have not been driving the signing of Stat? It is bloody obvious.

Sure, there was a desperation to sign somebody after losing out on Lebron, but that all falls back to Dolan's M.O. anyway. He's the dude who needed the big splashy signing to sell to the public after Walsh cleared the cap space. Saying Walsh pushed to give out a 5 year uninsurable contract defies logic. Only Dolan does insane stuff like that. Walsh was an old pro. He did his job, but when it came to the big moments, Dolan meddled big time.

If you can tell me with a straight face that Dolan could say what he did about Isiah at the press conference and reconcile that with Walsh being the driving force in signing Stat, then I'll sign over my deed to the Brooklyn Bridge to you.

Splat wrote:Wait a second now. Dolan said what he said. Even if Stat ain't fibbing, Dolan himself established Isiah was involved in the decision to sign Stoudemire. Dolan said it at the press conference and completely undermined Walsh in the process. If that isn't throwing shade, then you ain't played street ball. You have a history of evasion when put to a question and you're doing it now.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:Wait a second now. Dolan said what he said. Even if Stat ain't fibbing, Dolan himself established Isiah was involved in the decision to sign Stoudemire. Dolan said it at the press conference and completely undermined Walsh in the process. If that isn't throwing shade, then you ain't played street ball. You have a history of evasion when put to a question and you're doing it now.

The report said Isiah was given credit because Dolan wanted to bring Isiah back. I agree that it wasn't fair to Walsh but Amare was the big one acquired by Walsh in his attempt to acquire a big two. Also, how is citing Amare's quote evading? I don't recall ever evading anything when chatting with you. 3G called some of ny responses evading but that was because I said the Knicks traded a first for Bargs and he insisted that it was moved and wasn't a 1st because the nuggets had the right to swap. If you agree with him then I am guilty of evading.

I said it because Dolan's words were explicit and are not particularly prone to any other interpretation. It established Isiah was involved in the decision to sign Stoudemire. That you explain Dolan did so only because he wanted Isiah back in the fold merely reinforces what I'm saying. What in the hell was Dolan thinking then? Is Walsh running operations or not? This notion that Isiah was a neutral factor is nuts. You don't truly believe that Dolan's continued reliance on Isiah was not divisive towards Walsh? Come on man. I'm not trying to strong arm you to win an argument, but seriously?

Look, Dolan never had Walsh's back. If you actually think Walsh's issues with Dolan only happened in one fell swoop during the Melo saga and before that everything was ducky, how can I expect you to properly interpret a bold-faced diss of Walsh made by Dolan at the press conference?

I do believe you started this convo with one idea, but I think you're rational enough to rethink this and see the Stoudemire signing was driven by Dolan way more than it could have been by Walsh. Even minus the Isiah thing, just the simple fact that I would never expect Walsh on the Pacers to sign someone to a $100M contract if it was uninsurable. No way Jose. That's purely a Dolan-grade decision. Snap out of it Crush!

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:Wait a second now. Dolan said what he said. Even if Stat ain't fibbing, Dolan himself established Isiah was involved in the decision to sign Stoudemire. Dolan said it at the press conference and completely undermined Walsh in the process. If that isn't throwing shade, then you ain't played street ball. You have a history of evasion when put to a question and you're doing it now.

The report said Isiah was given credit because Dolan wanted to bring Isiah back. I agree that it wasn't fair to Walsh but Amare was the big one acquired by Walsh in his attempt to acquire a big two. Also, how is citing Amare's quote evading? I don't recall ever evading anything when chatting with you. 3G called some of ny responses evading but that was because I said the Knicks traded a first for Bargs and he insisted that it was moved and wasn't a 1st because the nuggets had the right to swap. If you agree with him then I am guilty of evading.

I said it because Dolan's words were explicit and are not particularly prone to any other interpretation. It established Isiah was involved in the decision to sign Stoudemire. That you explain Dolan did so only because he wanted Isiah back in the fold merely reinforces what I'm saying. What in the hell was Dolan thinking then? Is Walsh running operations or not? This notion that Isiah was a neutral factor is nuts. You don't truly believe that Dolan's continued reliance on Isiah was not divisive towards Walsh? Come on man. I'm not trying to strong arm you to win an argument, but seriously?

Look, Dolan never had Walsh's back. If you actually think Walsh's issues with Dolan only happened in one fell swoop during the Melo saga and before that everything was ducky, how can I expect you to properly interpret a bold-faced diss of Walsh made by Dolan at the press conference?

I do believe you started this convo with one idea, but I think you're rational enough to rethink this and see the Stoudemire signing was driven by Dolan way more than it could have been by Walsh. Even minus the Isiah thing, just the simple fact that I would never expect Walsh on the Pacers to sign someone to a $100M contract if it was uninsurable. No way Jose. That's purely a Dolan-grade decision. Snap out of it Crush!

Stat ison Walsh. Moz is on Dolan.

Aw shucks, you ain't no fun. No mojo. Fished for a deeper response and all I get is a terse "cuz I say so" response. The great debaters this ain't.