FistOfOakley wrote:a realistic shot at #1 in a draft where it matters can simultaneously makeup for a lot of past mistakes and make ur decisions look better... thats what happens when you get a TRUE difference maker...

If we move out of that spot it doesnt matter what else happens in the offseason or what happens in the next few years even... losing out on stephen curry for jordan hill setup a whole mess of events that we see now and have experienced.. getting someone like stanley johnson vs a karl towns is going to equally be as bad...

this draft pick is the most important part of the offseason.. it trumps signing anyone or the status of melos rehab... we were fortunate enough to be this bad at the perfect time.. if we screw it up or some pingpong balls dont go our way it will impact the franchise for the next decade...

So we don't want to win so much that we fall out of the lottery but we also want the players to develop and get as good as they can for the sake of the franchise. These players would be low cost but have more value as assets if we need to make a trade. So I want to see the team play well and hope that it doesn't lead to us falling out of a top lotto spot. It can be a tough balance but it's where we are right now.

we have one year.. and it's a very important year given our draft pick status for next year... it's also important given the players at the top of the draft... that coupled with the fact that we don't have anyone besides galloway, thj, early and calderon signed for next year and likely that 3 out of those 4 players are not nba level players... even if anyone else performs well we may need even able to sign them...

these are empty wins... there is nothing meaningful that are coming out of these other than giving fisher some coaching experience... which i think has some value... at the same time.. nabbing the best center prospect since dwight howard trumps all of that...

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:yea Walt... there are two big pictures. A good draft AND using these games to evaluate talent. About that last part.. are you going to tell your young guys to play hard but not too hard? I mean what are we doing if we cant see if these guys can win some games? Dont you want to know if these guys have the stomach to hit some big shots? Stats in blowouts dont mean much. Everyone knows when your up 20 the focus becomes getting good shots and continuing to score. The Knicks are going to have plenty of good players to pick from.

Play hard; play smart; lose close.

Would lie if I said I wasn't happy seeing the guys we have out there playing well.

You can have guys playing well individually and as part of the team and still lose because you are outmanned. I'm happy with the progress I see with individual players, and can see this progress even if we lose.

And don't dismiss the comment I made about Anthony not being part of this late season growth process. You cannot assume he will just fit in and play within the structure of the offense we are now watching when he is healthy next year. We also have no idea what our rotation is going to be like in 2015/6, and how many of the guys who are busting their butts out there now will be on the Knicks.

If Anthony does not buy into the offense Fisher and Phil are trying to establish, everything you are watching now will be of diminished significance. No other way of putting it. The guys on the team at this moment, will always defer to him, and there is a good chance that anyone we pick up in free agency will do the same to some extent. There are PGs Anthony would defer to, but none of them are on the Knicks as we speak, and we probably won't get this kind of PG in the FA period. I even think Fisher is deferential to Carmelo at this point in time, although I have no evidence this is the fact other than the times Anthony has played like did with Woodson.

There will be some good players in this draft, but the bigs we really need (I'm assuming that Jackson sees this as a need, to.) will go early, and it would be a shame to miss out on them because of some victories at the end of the season.

We have no 1st round pick next year, so it is vital to get one of the first tier players on our draft board in this year's draft.

Why not mention what will happen when Anthony does buy in??? Oh yea... I forgot what board I was on

Andrea Bargnani was drafted #1
Rondo at 21
Lowry at 24...

I'm not worried about position per se. But whoever they pick, I hope they can hit the ground running, and grow into a pro-level talent quickly in this system relatively free of injury!

DrAlphaeus wrote:Let me put it this way:

Andrea Bargnani was drafted #1
Rondo at 21
Lowry at 24...

I'm not worried about position per se. But whoever they pick, I hope they can hit the ground running, and grow into a pro-level talent quickly in this system relatively free of injury!

The chance to land a rondo or Lowry is like 1 in a 1000. We have a much better chance drafting a good player with a top 3-4 pick

Think Bargnani could be the difference in us getting Towns or Okafor and going below 4 and REALLY rolling dice.

That would mean the Bargnani trade cost us 2016 entire draft our draft seeding in 2015 and then hes gone? And Dolan really cares about a 90 year old guy btching?

Splat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Only 1 problem I have. I dont care if the Knicks win playing with guys THEY want back. BUT if they have ZERO intentions on Bargs being back--WTF did we just not release him?

Think Bargnani could be the difference in us getting Towns or Okafor and going below 4 and REALLY rolling dice.

That would mean the Bargnani trade cost us 2016 entire draft our draft seeding in 2015 and then hes gone? And Dolan really cares about a 90 year old guy btching?

That would be a trip. Bargs helps win more games, they lose the top pick and then he is gone. I guess some think he can be re-signed on the cheap, thus he is a good candidate for staying a Knick, but he is injury prone and erratic. As you're pointing out, none of this really adds up. Should have been cut. Bad management continues.

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:yea Walt... there are two big pictures. A good draft AND using these games to evaluate talent. About that last part.. are you going to tell your young guys to play hard but not too hard? I mean what are we doing if we cant see if these guys can win some games? Dont you want to know if these guys have the stomach to hit some big shots? Stats in blowouts dont mean much. Everyone knows when your up 20 the focus becomes getting good shots and continuing to score. The Knicks are going to have plenty of good players to pick from.

Play hard; play smart; lose close.

Would lie if I said I wasn't happy seeing the guys we have out there playing well.

You can have guys playing well individually and as part of the team and still lose because you are outmanned. I'm happy with the progress I see with individual players, and can see this progress even if we lose.

And don't dismiss the comment I made about Anthony not being part of this late season growth process. You cannot assume he will just fit in and play within the structure of the offense we are now watching when he is healthy next year. We also have no idea what our rotation is going to be like in 2015/6, and how many of the guys who are busting their butts out there now will be on the Knicks.

If Anthony does not buy into the offense Fisher and Phil are trying to establish, everything you are watching now will be of diminished significance. No other way of putting it. The guys on the team at this moment, will always defer to him, and there is a good chance that anyone we pick up in free agency will do the same to some extent. There are PGs Anthony would defer to, but none of them are on the Knicks as we speak, and we probably won't get this kind of PG in the FA period. I even think Fisher is deferential to Carmelo at this point in time, although I have no evidence this is the fact other than the times Anthony has played like did with Woodson.

There will be some good players in this draft, but the bigs we really need (I'm assuming that Jackson sees this as a need, to.) will go early, and it would be a shame to miss out on them because of some victories at the end of the season.

We have no 1st round pick next year, so it is vital to get one of the first tier players on our draft board in this year's draft.

Why not mention what will happen when Anthony does buy in??? Oh yea... I forgot what board I was on

I think it will add to his ability to do a little more at the end of games as he won't be as fatigued trying to do everything himself and hopefully give him better shots, but more importantly, it will help other players feel free to contribute and not stand around.

Even Hardaway is moving around a little bit and going to the basket more, although he still has a tendency to pass the ball off and stand around watching.

Sorry, but for the most part, I did not see the commitment from Anthony to the offensive scheme Jackson and Fisher are trying to install.

Whatever the pick# I hope they use it well.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Splat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Only 1 problem I have. I dont care if the Knicks win playing with guys THEY want back. BUT if they have ZERO intentions on Bargs being back--WTF did we just not release him?

Think Bargnani could be the difference in us getting Towns or Okafor and going below 4 and REALLY rolling dice.

That would mean the Bargnani trade cost us 2016 entire draft our draft seeding in 2015 and then hes gone? And Dolan really cares about a 90 year old guy btching?

That would be a trip. Bargs helps win more games, they lose the top pick and then he is gone. I guess some think he can be re-signed on the cheap, thus he is a good candidate for staying a Knick, but he is injury prone and erratic. As you're pointing out, none of this really adds up. Should have been cut. Bad management continues.

I don't understand how cutting Bargs would've benefitted the team. He wasn't playing and now that he is playing he's making a case for being brought back. I don't know if Bargs and his agent are on board with a reduced rate new contract, but I can't imagine he'll find any other takers out there given his recent track record. My guess is that Bargs stays. I don't think it's fair to lay that "Bad Management Continues" line on the team either. Since the trade things have settled into a very nice path forward. Hanging on to Bargs was a smart move.

He hasn't been cut. Therefore he should be cut. Since he hasn't splat can say more bad management. Follow the logic? Find anything that can go wrong, project negative, blame Phil, call yourself splat.

I peeked at your post. God you are stupid. I can't point fingers at you for having a hard-on for me after I laid into Nix like I did, but you have never attacked me with any logic. I may have been a dick towards Nix, but I can still answer them about the subject matter at hand. But you are completely useless. You never contribute intelligence to go with your bottomless cup of bile.

My statements about Bargs are logical. Yes, management is stupid as hell for not cutting him already. That is not an A Priori judgment on my part. The team looks bad letting him play if they don't intend to keep him. They look bad if they resign him. That is bad management.

It shows this team continues to operate with a poorly constructed plan, because any GM worth their salt would have given Bargs his walking papers at the same time as Stoudemire.

Not only are you dumb, but you're the biggest troll of them all. It all started with me saying Stat sucks. You, being the moron that you are, spent weeks posting about him shooting 55% and how he was the second best player on the team. Nothing you have ever said has panned out. I may be harsh, but I've been right about almost everything you fukking wanker. You get nothing right, so go back to your daily regimen of tracking my comments and making dumb rebuttals.

Plus with so many holes to fill...they cant afford to just cut a player whos capable of putting up 20 plus in their system. Since its so hard to find quality players that understand the triangle....Barbs is increaing his value right now...might as well get the most value for your asset. Its a dangerous game Phil is playing but hes a risk taker. I think we can still lose while Bargs continues to play well....But dont sleep on shev....hes part of this winning streak.