GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the Triangle you don't really need a PG at all. Phil played without a real PG many years in his starting lineup. You need a good defensive guard who can also pass and score effectively. In Phil's history his SG/SF have been very good passers and that makes sense given the way the offense sets up. Guys like Pippen and Odom could pass from the top of the offense as could Jordan or Kobe from the weak side opposite the Triangle.

http://www.82games.com/uy4.htm

 Season	 Player	         APG
 89-90	 John Paxson	 4.1
 	 BJ Armstrong	 2.5
 90-91	 BJ Armstrong	 3.7
 	 John Paxson	 3.6
 91-92	 BJ Armstrong	 3.2
 	 John Paxson	 3.1
 92-93	 BJ Armstrong	 4.0
 93-94	 BJ Armstrong	 3.9
 	 Steve Kerr	 2.6
 94-95	 BJ Armstrong	 3.0
 95-96	 Ron Harper	 2.6
 96-97	 Ron Harper	 2.5
 97-98	 Ron Harper	 2.9
 99-00	 Ron Harper	 3.4
 	 Derek Fisher	 2.8
 	 Brian Shaw	 2.7
 00-01	 Derek Fisher	 4.4
 	 Brian Shaw	 3.2
 01-02	 Derek Fisher	 2.6
 02-03	 Derek Fisher	 3.6
 	 Brian Shaw	 1.5
 03-04	 Gary Payton	 5.5
 04-05	 Smush Parker	 3.7
 05-06	 Smush Parker	 2.8

Guards like Russell and Mudiay are perfect cuz they have SG size but can pass and drive etc. like a PG. but also score from the perimeter. This is why they brought in Shved. He's 6-6 and pretty much can pass like a PG and drive effectively. If he ever gets his shot going he'd be a perfect rotation guard.

You don't need a PG when you have the 2 best SGs of all time Jordan/Kobe handling the ball more.Bulls also had until a few days ago the best passing forward in NBA history in Pippen. they all averaged more assists than almost everyone on that list. We don't have that luxury. Its possible that the triangle might be scrapped, what then? Long term we need a solid PG, playing with subpar PGs has been a disaster.

No question you need a playmaker. From either guard position. Unfortunately Melo doesn't make plays for his teammates like Pippen & Odom.

You absolutely need at least one big who can defend, rebound & score some inside. We always see jumpshooting teams get exposed in the playoffs. You can usually find a big who does 1 or 2 of those things. The ones who do all 3 are usually Allstars or borderline allstars. That's why Towns is my pick. You put Greg Monroe next time him and you just built a team reminiscent to the 2010 Lakers & 99 Spurs.

You can dig deep and find diamond in the rough guards like Lin, Prigioni, Galloway, Beverly etc

When was the last time a team uncovered a really good big? Miami got really lucky with Whiteside. Can't think of another.

I wish Galloway could be that guy but he's a little trigger happy and an erractic shooter. I don't know maybe he can make some plays for guys in this system that doesn't require any player to have the ball in their hands at all times. He is only 23 Maybe he works on his shooting. He already does a fine job defensively with his long arms

IMO a diamond in the rough starting PG is a player who can maintain a degree of exellence for the better part of an entire season. Pablo was a nice find but he was absolutely allergic to the rim. Lin's exellence was measured in weeks. Galloway, from what Ive seen looks like he has the chance to be a solid backup, but I don't believe any of them are good enough to be a starter on a contending team.

I have no problem at all with Phil taking a big and going for a PG in the second round, maybe get a FA as well. Just don't want the job to go to just another placeholder, and that's all we have had for the most part for a very long time. Hasn't worked out well for the Knicks.

Hopeful we find a way to get a 2nd rd pick. Our lottery pick is our only pick the next 2 years

Looks like Phil has made it his mission to stockpile some picks to make up for all the ones they've squandered. Might be the best thing he's done so far, even if you may disagree about how much he gave up for them.

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the Triangle you don't really need a PG at all. Phil played without a real PG many years in his starting lineup. You need a good defensive guard who can also pass and score effectively. In Phil's history his SG/SF have been very good passers and that makes sense given the way the offense sets up. Guys like Pippen and Odom could pass from the top of the offense as could Jordan or Kobe from the weak side opposite the Triangle.

http://www.82games.com/uy4.htm

 Season	 Player	         APG
 89-90	 John Paxson	 4.1
 	 BJ Armstrong	 2.5
 90-91	 BJ Armstrong	 3.7
 	 John Paxson	 3.6
 91-92	 BJ Armstrong	 3.2
 	 John Paxson	 3.1
 92-93	 BJ Armstrong	 4.0
 93-94	 BJ Armstrong	 3.9
 	 Steve Kerr	 2.6
 94-95	 BJ Armstrong	 3.0
 95-96	 Ron Harper	 2.6
 96-97	 Ron Harper	 2.5
 97-98	 Ron Harper	 2.9
 99-00	 Ron Harper	 3.4
 	 Derek Fisher	 2.8
 	 Brian Shaw	 2.7
 00-01	 Derek Fisher	 4.4
 	 Brian Shaw	 3.2
 01-02	 Derek Fisher	 2.6
 02-03	 Derek Fisher	 3.6
 	 Brian Shaw	 1.5
 03-04	 Gary Payton	 5.5
 04-05	 Smush Parker	 3.7
 05-06	 Smush Parker	 2.8

Guards like Russell and Mudiay are perfect cuz they have SG size but can pass and drive etc. like a PG. but also score from the perimeter. This is why they brought in Shved. He's 6-6 and pretty much can pass like a PG and drive effectively. If he ever gets his shot going he'd be a perfect rotation guard.

You don't need a PG when you have the 2 best SGs of all time Jordan/Kobe handling the ball more.Bulls also had until a few days ago the best passing forward in NBA history in Pippen. they all averaged more assists than almost everyone on that list. We don't have that luxury. Its possible that the triangle might be scrapped, what then? Long term we need a solid PG, playing with subpar PGs has been a disaster.

No question you need a playmaker. From either guard position. Unfortunately Melo doesn't make plays for his teammates like Pippen & Odom.

You absolutely need at least one big who can defend, rebound & score some inside. We always see jumpshooting teams get exposed in the playoffs. You can usually find a big who does 1 or 2 of those things. The ones who do all 3 are usually Allstars or borderline allstars. That's why Towns is my pick. You put Greg Monroe next time him and you just built a team reminiscent to the 2010 Lakers & 99 Spurs.

You can dig deep and find diamond in the rough guards like Lin, Prigioni, Galloway, Beverly etc

When was the last time a team uncovered a really good big? Miami got really lucky with Whiteside. Can't think of another.

I wish Galloway could be that guy but he's a little trigger happy and an erractic shooter. I don't know maybe he can make some plays for guys in this system that doesn't require any player to have the ball in their hands at all times. He is only 23 Maybe he works on his shooting. He already does a fine job defensively with his long arms

IMO a diamond in the rough starting PG is a player who can maintain a degree of exellence for the better part of an entire season. Pablo was a nice find but he was absolutely allergic to the rim. Lin's exellence was measured in weeks. Galloway, from what Ive seen looks like he has the chance to be a solid backup, but I don't believe any of them are good enough to be a starter on a contending team.

I have no problem at all with Phil taking a big and going for a PG in the second round, maybe get a FA as well. Just don't want the job to go to just another placeholder, and that's all we have had for the most part for a very long time. Hasn't worked out well for the Knicks.

Hopeful we find a way to get a 2nd rd pick. Our lottery pick is our only pick the next 2 years.

I agree you need a good point guard and they are as hard to find as Centers but in this case we are running the triangle. We don't need a Chris Paul type. We need multiple playmakers at mostly every position. Towns is a phenomenal playmaking big like Shaq & Rodman. Ok4 is great too but he's playmaking comes from the attention he receives in the post

To your second point, we don't necessarily need a top 5 PG, but he has to be a lot better than what we've had in the past. The status quo when it comes to PGs, won't get us far.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the Triangle you don't really need a PG at all. Phil played without a real PG many years in his starting lineup. You need a good defensive guard who can also pass and score effectively. In Phil's history his SG/SF have been very good passers and that makes sense given the way the offense sets up. Guys like Pippen and Odom could pass from the top of the offense as could Jordan or Kobe from the weak side opposite the Triangle.

http://www.82games.com/uy4.htm

 Season	 Player	         APG
 89-90	 John Paxson	 4.1
 	 BJ Armstrong	 2.5
 90-91	 BJ Armstrong	 3.7
 	 John Paxson	 3.6
 91-92	 BJ Armstrong	 3.2
 	 John Paxson	 3.1
 92-93	 BJ Armstrong	 4.0
 93-94	 BJ Armstrong	 3.9
 	 Steve Kerr	 2.6
 94-95	 BJ Armstrong	 3.0
 95-96	 Ron Harper	 2.6
 96-97	 Ron Harper	 2.5
 97-98	 Ron Harper	 2.9
 99-00	 Ron Harper	 3.4
 	 Derek Fisher	 2.8
 	 Brian Shaw	 2.7
 00-01	 Derek Fisher	 4.4
 	 Brian Shaw	 3.2
 01-02	 Derek Fisher	 2.6
 02-03	 Derek Fisher	 3.6
 	 Brian Shaw	 1.5
 03-04	 Gary Payton	 5.5
 04-05	 Smush Parker	 3.7
 05-06	 Smush Parker	 2.8

Guards like Russell and Mudiay are perfect cuz they have SG size but can pass and drive etc. like a PG. but also score from the perimeter. This is why they brought in Shved. He's 6-6 and pretty much can pass like a PG and drive effectively. If he ever gets his shot going he'd be a perfect rotation guard.

You don't need a PG when you have the 2 best SGs of all time Jordan/Kobe handling the ball more.Bulls also had until a few days ago the best passing forward in NBA history in Pippen. they all averaged more assists than almost everyone on that list. We don't have that luxury. Its possible that the triangle might be scrapped, what then? Long term we need a solid PG, playing with subpar PGs has been a disaster.

No question you need a playmaker. From either guard position. Unfortunately Melo doesn't make plays for his teammates like Pippen & Odom.

You absolutely need at least one big who can defend, rebound & score some inside. We always see jumpshooting teams get exposed in the playoffs. You can usually find a big who does 1 or 2 of those things. The ones who do all 3 are usually Allstars or borderline allstars. That's why Towns is my pick. You put Greg Monroe next time him and you just built a team reminiscent to the 2010 Lakers & 99 Spurs.

You can dig deep and find diamond in the rough guards like Lin, Prigioni, Galloway, Beverly etc

When was the last time a team uncovered a really good big? Miami got really lucky with Whiteside. Can't think of another.

I wish Galloway could be that guy but he's a little trigger happy and an erractic shooter. I don't know maybe he can make some plays for guys in this system that doesn't require any player to have the ball in their hands at all times. He is only 23 Maybe he works on his shooting. He already does a fine job defensively with his long arms

IMO a diamond in the rough starting PG is a player who can maintain a degree of exellence for the better part of an entire season. Pablo was a nice find but he was absolutely allergic to the rim. Lin's exellence was measured in weeks. Galloway, from what Ive seen looks like he has the chance to be a solid backup, but I don't believe any of them are good enough to be a starter on a contending team.

I have no problem at all with Phil taking a big and going for a PG in the second round, maybe get a FA as well. Just don't want the job to go to just another placeholder, and that's all we have had for the most part for a very long time. Hasn't worked out well for the Knicks.

Hopeful we find a way to get a 2nd rd pick. Our lottery pick is our only pick the next 2 years

Looks like Phil has made it his mission to stockpile some picks to make up for all the ones they've squandered. Might be the best thing he's done so far, even if you may disagree about how much he gave up for them.

he has only gotten a couple late 2nd rounders. We really needed to get another 1st to recoup the terrible bargnani trade

Phil has gotten us 5 picks since becoming president last season, using some of them. I'm pretty sure he isn't done yet. I agree a first rounder would be nice, the only player right now who might get us a protected first rounder is THJ, if he can cobble together a good finish.

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the Triangle you don't really need a PG at all. Phil played without a real PG many years in his starting lineup. You need a good defensive guard who can also pass and score effectively. In Phil's history his SG/SF have been very good passers and that makes sense given the way the offense sets up. Guys like Pippen and Odom could pass from the top of the offense as could Jordan or Kobe from the weak side opposite the Triangle.

http://www.82games.com/uy4.htm

 Season	 Player	         APG
 89-90	 John Paxson	 4.1
 	 BJ Armstrong	 2.5
 90-91	 BJ Armstrong	 3.7
 	 John Paxson	 3.6
 91-92	 BJ Armstrong	 3.2
 	 John Paxson	 3.1
 92-93	 BJ Armstrong	 4.0
 93-94	 BJ Armstrong	 3.9
 	 Steve Kerr	 2.6
 94-95	 BJ Armstrong	 3.0
 95-96	 Ron Harper	 2.6
 96-97	 Ron Harper	 2.5
 97-98	 Ron Harper	 2.9
 99-00	 Ron Harper	 3.4
 	 Derek Fisher	 2.8
 	 Brian Shaw	 2.7
 00-01	 Derek Fisher	 4.4
 	 Brian Shaw	 3.2
 01-02	 Derek Fisher	 2.6
 02-03	 Derek Fisher	 3.6
 	 Brian Shaw	 1.5
 03-04	 Gary Payton	 5.5
 04-05	 Smush Parker	 3.7
 05-06	 Smush Parker	 2.8

Guards like Russell and Mudiay are perfect cuz they have SG size but can pass and drive etc. like a PG. but also score from the perimeter. This is why they brought in Shved. He's 6-6 and pretty much can pass like a PG and drive effectively. If he ever gets his shot going he'd be a perfect rotation guard.

You don't need a PG when you have the 2 best SGs of all time Jordan/Kobe handling the ball more.Bulls also had until a few days ago the best passing forward in NBA history in Pippen. they all averaged more assists than almost everyone on that list. We don't have that luxury. Its possible that the triangle might be scrapped, what then? Long term we need a solid PG, playing with subpar PGs has been a disaster.

No question you need a playmaker. From either guard position. Unfortunately Melo doesn't make plays for his teammates like Pippen & Odom.

You absolutely need at least one big who can defend, rebound & score some inside. We always see jumpshooting teams get exposed in the playoffs. You can usually find a big who does 1 or 2 of those things. The ones who do all 3 are usually Allstars or borderline allstars. That's why Towns is my pick. You put Greg Monroe next time him and you just built a team reminiscent to the 2010 Lakers & 99 Spurs.

You can dig deep and find diamond in the rough guards like Lin, Prigioni, Galloway, Beverly etc

When was the last time a team uncovered a really good big? Miami got really lucky with Whiteside. Can't think of another.

I wish Galloway could be that guy but he's a little trigger happy and an erractic shooter. I don't know maybe he can make some plays for guys in this system that doesn't require any player to have the ball in their hands at all times. He is only 23 Maybe he works on his shooting. He already does a fine job defensively with his long arms

IMO a diamond in the rough starting PG is a player who can maintain a degree of exellence for the better part of an entire season. Pablo was a nice find but he was absolutely allergic to the rim. Lin's exellence was measured in weeks. Galloway, from what Ive seen looks like he has the chance to be a solid backup, but I don't believe any of them are good enough to be a starter on a contending team.

I have no problem at all with Phil taking a big and going for a PG in the second round, maybe get a FA as well. Just don't want the job to go to just another placeholder, and that's all we have had for the most part for a very long time. Hasn't worked out well for the Knicks.

Hopeful we find a way to get a 2nd rd pick. Our lottery pick is our only pick the next 2 years

Looks like Phil has made it his mission to stockpile some picks to make up for all the ones they've squandered. Might be the best thing he's done so far, even if you may disagree about how much he gave up for them.

he has only gotten a couple late 2nd rounders. We really needed to get another 1st to recoup the terrible bargnani trade

Phil has gotten us 5 picks since becoming president last season, using some of them. I'm pretty sure he isn't done yet. I agree a first rounder would be nice, the only player right now who might get us a protected first rounder is THJ, if he can cobble together a good finish.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the Triangle you don't really need a PG at all. Phil played without a real PG many years in his starting lineup. You need a good defensive guard who can also pass and score effectively. In Phil's history his SG/SF have been very good passers and that makes sense given the way the offense sets up. Guys like Pippen and Odom could pass from the top of the offense as could Jordan or Kobe from the weak side opposite the Triangle.

http://www.82games.com/uy4.htm

 Season	 Player	         APG
 89-90	 John Paxson	 4.1
 	 BJ Armstrong	 2.5
 90-91	 BJ Armstrong	 3.7
 	 John Paxson	 3.6
 91-92	 BJ Armstrong	 3.2
 	 John Paxson	 3.1
 92-93	 BJ Armstrong	 4.0
 93-94	 BJ Armstrong	 3.9
 	 Steve Kerr	 2.6
 94-95	 BJ Armstrong	 3.0
 95-96	 Ron Harper	 2.6
 96-97	 Ron Harper	 2.5
 97-98	 Ron Harper	 2.9
 99-00	 Ron Harper	 3.4
 	 Derek Fisher	 2.8
 	 Brian Shaw	 2.7
 00-01	 Derek Fisher	 4.4
 	 Brian Shaw	 3.2
 01-02	 Derek Fisher	 2.6
 02-03	 Derek Fisher	 3.6
 	 Brian Shaw	 1.5
 03-04	 Gary Payton	 5.5
 04-05	 Smush Parker	 3.7
 05-06	 Smush Parker	 2.8

Guards like Russell and Mudiay are perfect cuz they have SG size but can pass and drive etc. like a PG. but also score from the perimeter. This is why they brought in Shved. He's 6-6 and pretty much can pass like a PG and drive effectively. If he ever gets his shot going he'd be a perfect rotation guard.

You don't need a PG when you have the 2 best SGs of all time Jordan/Kobe handling the ball more.Bulls also had until a few days ago the best passing forward in NBA history in Pippen. they all averaged more assists than almost everyone on that list. We don't have that luxury. Its possible that the triangle might be scrapped, what then? Long term we need a solid PG, playing with subpar PGs has been a disaster.

No question you need a playmaker. From either guard position. Unfortunately Melo doesn't make plays for his teammates like Pippen & Odom.

You absolutely need at least one big who can defend, rebound & score some inside. We always see jumpshooting teams get exposed in the playoffs. You can usually find a big who does 1 or 2 of those things. The ones who do all 3 are usually Allstars or borderline allstars. That's why Towns is my pick. You put Greg Monroe next time him and you just built a team reminiscent to the 2010 Lakers & 99 Spurs.

You can dig deep and find diamond in the rough guards like Lin, Prigioni, Galloway, Beverly etc

When was the last time a team uncovered a really good big? Miami got really lucky with Whiteside. Can't think of another.

I wish Galloway could be that guy but he's a little trigger happy and an erractic shooter. I don't know maybe he can make some plays for guys in this system that doesn't require any player to have the ball in their hands at all times. He is only 23 Maybe he works on his shooting. He already does a fine job defensively with his long arms

IMO a diamond in the rough starting PG is a player who can maintain a degree of exellence for the better part of an entire season. Pablo was a nice find but he was absolutely allergic to the rim. Lin's exellence was measured in weeks. Galloway, from what Ive seen looks like he has the chance to be a solid backup, but I don't believe any of them are good enough to be a starter on a contending team.

I have no problem at all with Phil taking a big and going for a PG in the second round, maybe get a FA as well. Just don't want the job to go to just another placeholder, and that's all we have had for the most part for a very long time. Hasn't worked out well for the Knicks.

Hopeful we find a way to get a 2nd rd pick. Our lottery pick is our only pick the next 2 years

Looks like Phil has made it his mission to stockpile some picks to make up for all the ones they've squandered. Might be the best thing he's done so far, even if you may disagree about how much he gave up for them.

he has only gotten a couple late 2nd rounders. We really needed to get another 1st to recoup the terrible bargnani trade

Phil has gotten us 5 picks since becoming president last season, using some of them. I'm pretty sure he isn't done yet. I agree a first rounder would be nice, the only player right now who might get us a protected first rounder is THJ, if he can cobble together a good finish.

not trying to say 2nd rounders are useless but getting a first rounder is what we need. I mean hell denver got 2 firsts for mozgov

IMO Phil wants to replicate some of the things he's had in the past and that would include Players who can be good passers out of the non PG spots on the floor. A big that can post and pass out of the post. SG who can pass and drive effectively so that when things bog down they can get something out of nothing. Melo isn't the most willing passer when he doesn't have players around him, but I think he can do a better job when the talent around him is capable of delivering. In total just having a roster with more versatile skilled players at every position. IMO Russell would surely fit, as would Towns or OK4.

gunsnewing wrote:I think Ok4 is NBA ready. Russell hasn't been consistent enough. Not everyone is Stephen Curry. Curry was special right out of the gate. Russell might need a few years to reach Curryy's rookie season numbers.

I want a guy who defends the front court to help mask melo's difficiences. Melo's lateral movement on D will probably be slower. Whether he becomes a defensive anchor or just a solid defender I think Towns is the perfect pick. But if we take ok4 I get it. I would not take Russell or Mudiay over those guys unless we have pick 3-4 and those guys are off the board

This is exactly what has been wrong with the Knicks for the last 15 years; they never put much stock on bringing in a complete talent to play the back court. Defense does not start from the front court; it starts from the back court with the point guard. If you can slowdown the opposing back court players from bringing up the ball, you immediately upgrade your overall defense. You slowdown the game for the oppositions and force them to take hurried shots. It is imperative we solve the back court to become a contender.

The game of basketball has changed from an inside out to an outside in game. You need to have excellent playmaking from the PG position and great shooters around the court.

gunsnewing wrote:Nix You are talking like Phil is the coach lol

If Phil really wants to leave his imprints on this team, he has to coach the team next season. A lot of the FAs would run to NY if they were to know that Phil would be the coach.

gunsnewing wrote:Nix You are talking like Phil is the coach lol

He has his main guys running the team pretty much how he wants it run. He has meetings with them after games and i'm pretty sure he's giving his input on how they're coaching the team and they can explain what tweaks they feel are necessary. It's still on him to direct how this team is built so my points are totally valid in that Phil knows teams need defensive talent. He knows you need strong perimeter defenders. People act like Phil is just learning about the NBA and not someone who has been dealing with the highest levels of BB possible for over 30 years.

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nix You are talking like Phil is the coach lol

He has his main guys running the team pretty much how he wants it run. He has meetings with them after games and i'm pretty sure he's giving his input on how they're coaching the team and they can explain what tweaks they feel are necessary. It's still on him to direct how this team is built so my points are totally valid in that Phil knows teams need defensive talent. He knows you need strong perimeter defenders. People act like Phil is just learning about the NBA and not someone who has been dealing with the highest levels of BB possible for over 30 years.

I'm just glad you are one of the few who understands the importance of having players who van defend. Some people here have these crazy Sega Genesis scenarios where you put a bunch of slow footed defenders together in a starting 5 like Dragic, Melo & ok4 then the team wins 30 games while giving up 105pts a game and everyone wonders why. Then blame the coach etc. How can we lose with so much talent?..etc etc