misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

Earl,

I'm trying to understand the meaning of this thread. Is it just more piling on to the "Dolan has ruined the Knicks" thread - or is it more of a shot at PJ and the triangle system? In either case - JR is just not a credible source. Sorry, he may be a professional BBall player - but he has certainly not showed to be a professional human being. In the quote from your original OP - JR cited that he is a Freestyle player which will not work in the triangle. By freestyle he really means selfish and someone who wants to use his 1-1 skills on the court rather then work within the confines of a team or system oriented approach. JR also blew his chance in NY to be one of the team leaders you speak that the Knicks sorely lack in a previous post. He has partied and smoked dope during the playoffs, been suspended multiple times, killed someone and got his brother on the team over another much more deserving player. He is immensely physically talented - but that does not make him immensely able to perform a cognitive analysis in his assessment of NBA rosters and offensive systems.

You have been piling on lately. Not quite sure why. Except for a few very rare exceptions, the Knicks have sucked for decades. The strip down of this roster to it's current meager tanking state, while not a perfect strip job....was certainly needed IMHO.......you have been a fan a looooooong time. What's a few more years? Rebirth always gives hope and that will start with the high draft pick.

misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

Correct. I'd say Phil would walk before it comes completely to a head rather than be shown the door, but if he needs to be fired in order to collect the whole $60M it will come down to money vs. pride & legacy.

Phil may thus play a game of chicken with Dolan. He's already doing it with his high school tweets, something he knows full well must drive Dolan crazy. It certainly isn't the behavior of a zen master, but of a pissed off and frustrated old man.

Unless he has serious money problems, there is no way he sticks this out. This is a guy with just as many or more health issues than Donnie Walsh. He thought it would be much easier than this. If it is clear by next January they can't make the playoffs next year, the countdown to Phil's exit will begin.

Since it would be a miracle if this is a playoff team next year, it is almost certain Phil won't survive this.

Those who are now praying for a competitive team next year are in for a rude awakening.

At the beginning of the season, I believe I was the only one who predicted high twenties for their win total. Even I got that wrong, but I was the most accurate. And I'm confident we are not going to the playoffs next year and Phil will be gone either before or during his third season.

foosballnick wrote:

misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

Earl,

I'm trying to understand the meaning of this thread. Is it just more piling on to the "Dolan has ruined the Knicks" thread - or is it more of a shot at PJ and the triangle system? In either case - JR is just not a credible source. Sorry, he may be a professional BBall player - but he has certainly not showed to be a professional human being. In the quote from your original OP - JR cited that he is a Freestyle player which will not work in the triangle. By freestyle he really means selfish and someone who wants to use his 1-1 skills on the court rather then work within the confines of a team or system oriented approach. JR also blew his chance in NY to be one of the team leaders you speak that the Knicks sorely lack in a previous post. He has partied and smoked dope during the playoffs, been suspended multiple times, killed someone and got his brother on the team over another much more deserving player. He is immensely physically talented - but that does not make him immensely able to perform a cognitive analysis in his assessment of NBA rosters and offensive systems.

You have been piling on lately. Not quite sure why. Except for a few very rare exceptions, the Knicks have sucked for decades. The strip down of this roster to it's current meager tanking state, while not a perfect strip job....was certainly needed IMHO.......you have been a fan a looooooong time. What's a few more years? Rebirth always gives hope and that will start with the high draft pick.

The Triangle isn't the problem. We need to bring in reliable, talented and smart players who want to play team BB. The more players we can bring in like that the better.

nixluva wrote:Is there anyone in the NBA who is taken less seriously than JR? I mean when it comes to credibility JR has NONE. This man straight ruined our playoff run with his antics and proved he couldn't be depended on. We needed him to step up last year... NOTHING. We needed him to step up this year... NOTHING. The last man I want to hear from is JR. He's suddenly playing well. Good for him, but also screw him cuz he is a coach and team killer, if he isn't getting his way and he's totally unreliable. We don't need players like that.

The Triangle isn't the problem. We need to bring in reliable, talented and smart players who want to play team BB. The more players we can bring in like that the better.

JR has always been an easy target..Easy to point the finger at him..JR was hurt during that playoff run..He had the same injury as Melo and also a torn meniscus..He kept it quiet because he knew the team needed him..So that guy ruined our playoff run, he shouldn't have been playing...

I keep saying this, it's not a miracle tha JR is doing well in Cleveland, he is the 4th option there and is paid like it...Much as we needed JR to be the 2nd option behind Melo and he just isn't that type of player...I was amazed JR performed an entire season at his sixth man level..But as Knick fans, if you aren't our 2nd option JR, then you are garbage...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Is there anyone in the NBA who is taken less seriously than JR? I mean when it comes to credibility JR has NONE. This man straight ruined our playoff run with his antics and proved he couldn't be depended on. We needed him to step up last year... NOTHING. We needed him to step up this year... NOTHING. The last man I want to hear from is JR. He's suddenly playing well. Good for him, but also screw him cuz he is a coach and team killer, if he isn't getting his way and he's totally unreliable. We don't need players like that.

The Triangle isn't the problem. We need to bring in reliable, talented and smart players who want to play team BB. The more players we can bring in like that the better.

JR has always been an easy target..Easy to point the finger at him..JR was hurt during that playoff run..He had the same injury as Melo and also a torn meniscus..He kept it quiet because he knew the team needed him..So that guy ruined our playoff run, he shouldn't have been playing...

I keep saying this, it's not a miracle tha JR is doing well in Cleveland, he is the 4th option there and is paid like it...Much as we needed JR to be the 2nd option behind Melo and he just isn't that type of player...I was amazed JR performed an entire season at his sixth man level..But as Knick fans, if you aren't our 2nd option JR, then you are garbage...

Nice defense of JR but why then did he do the many stupid things he did during his tenure with the Knicks? The Knee wasn't the reason he ruined our Playoff run, but rather his DUMB and SELFISH elbow to Jason Terry.

How about the utter nonsense of his untying shoes?

Don't even talk about the nightlife and just not being professional about his job and responsibility towards his team and teammates.

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:Substantive Improvement

nixluva - what evidence supports your theory that Dolan is done meddling? From this point of view, for any owner of a business to respond to a consumer with insults is a sign that he takes things very personally.

We need to make substantive improvement and get this team on the right track for sustained success.

What exactly is "substantive improvement"?

Is it measurable? What are the metrics? Or is it something one cannot measure in the same manner one cannot measure the influence of Jason Kidd or Rasheed Wallace?

It is no so simple as a draft pick and a few agents. Once again, without veteran continuity, there is no leadership. Where is our leadership coming from?

You have to let Phil sort that out dont you... hopefully it only takes one year of this. It took the Bulls 5 years.

fishmike - the words which elicited the responses are not Phil's. They belong to nixluva.

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:History Lesson

fishmike - if Uncle Phil is able to block out the siren call of the west coast, and lasts more than two years working in the Garden of Good and Terrible (which would put him at the ripe age of 73) it would be remarkable. If Phil's legacy is threatened, by any hint of second-guessing, he will rise in a nanosecond.

Donnie Walsh took over at 69 years old and decided he was too old for Dolan meddling in his affairs.

The older one gets, does one really need the hassle?

there is a difference... Dolan ran Donnie. Now Dolan has said he's backed off and its Phil's show.

George Steinbrenner once meddled more than any owner in pro sports, and even he learned to step back and trust your people (Gene Michael). From what I see Phil has Dolan's trust to run this thing, and the goal is to build something both on the court and in the front office.

I mean Dolan has some pressure to make this work also. His legacy is far more on the line than Phil's. Dolan wants to be the guy who brought in the right person to change all of this. He knows he needs Phil much more than Phil needs him. That alone is worth watching and waiting to see how this plays out.

Answerman, please stop with the banal, youthful bias of those not so old as Zen.

The man's an executive. He sits in offices, on planes, stadiums, gyms and hotels. He talks on the phone and conference calls. He reads alot. He probably watches the occassional film. He tweets. He excels at mind games. His medical plan probably makes the normal human being's look like medieval health care. I haven't seen them roll out the wheel chair yet.

The man's not working the salt mines fellas. He's getting paid insanely well for being very good at what he used to do. Since he just happened to be the best one at it, and is in a very rarified stratosphere, that kind of stuff happens here in the big city to big names. Aint that a surprise!
He's worked in other fairly large towns.

He's answered the West Coast call twice. If he wanted to do that or coach again, he could have easily.

The older one gets, the greater the need to do something to validate waking up and getting out of bed. You don't have to search too very far and wide to see the correlation between full retirement, inactivity, and death. The man has apparently accomplished alot of things in his life. Sitting home in Montana or LA and watching the world go by probably doesn't appeal to even one who happens to be following the Eight fold path to Nirvana.

[Jimmie, please make all checks payable to Homers Inc, LLC.)

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:They said after that his knee flared up again in the Boston series..To me that makes more sense..But the other scanerio makes a great narrative..Run with it..

And if I'm hooping for the Knicks, banging Rhiannna, making 6 mil per...Yeah, I can't promise I won't take a hit from a bong in the offseason from time to time..

I don't even know how you're trying to defend JR with that right now. I don't think anyone believes an NBA player can't party and enjoy themselves, but when that partying effects their play negatively it becomes a problem. That is something JR has recently admitted to and that's after he'd already addressed that a couple of seasons ago.

And for your bong hit comment,

The NBA declined to comment specifically on Smith's violation. According to a summary of the program provided by the league, a third positive test for marijuana results in a suspension that is "five games longer than the player's immediately-preceding marijuana suspension." That is the sole scenario in which a five-game ban is administered.

would you be dumb enough to get caught 3 times?

JR's boneheaded play and behavior also cost this team more than wins or losses- it cost us an asset - we had to trade Shump with JR just to dump him. If he had been playing at the level he is in Cleveland, or close to it, we probably 1. would have kept Shump & 2. possibly gotten back a 1st rounder.

But, go ahead and defend JR. Yes, the team sucks. Yes, there is a leadership vacuum. But that doesn't excuse him from being a dickhead. F JR.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:They said after that his knee flared up again in the Boston series..To me that makes more sense..But the other scanerio makes a great narrative..Run with it..

And if I'm hooping for the Knicks, banging Rhiannna, making 6 mil per...Yeah, I can't promise I won't take a hit from a bong in the offseason from time to time..

I don't even know how you're trying to defend JR with that right now. I don't think anyone believes an NBA player can't party and enjoy themselves, but when that partying effects their play negatively it becomes a problem. That is something JR has recently admitted to and that's after he'd already addressed that a couple of seasons ago.

And for your bong hit comment,

The NBA declined to comment specifically on Smith's violation. According to a summary of the program provided by the league, a third positive test for marijuana results in a suspension that is "five games longer than the player's immediately-preceding marijuana suspension." That is the sole scenario in which a five-game ban is administered.

would you be dumb enough to get caught 3 times?

JR's boneheaded play and behavior also cost this team more than wins or losses- it cost us an asset - we had to trade Shump with JR just to dump him. If he had been playing at the level he is in Cleveland, or close to it, we probably 1. would have kept Shump & 2. possibly gotten back a 1st rounder.

But, go ahead and defend JR. Yes, the team sucks. Yes, there is a leadership vacuum. But that doesn't excuse him from being a dickhead. F JR.

exactly.. the problem is JR and the solution is CLE is a lousy party town. Send him to the Lakers and its same old JR. Send him to Denver and he's high before he leaves the airport.

Dude shot 33% in the playoffs after winning 6th man. Why? Because he would rather dick around with that slut Rhianna than focus on the playoffs. The playoffs... yes. F-U JR. I hope Cle plays Mia in the first round or even BK so JR is out partying and plays like crap.. honestly I do.

He damaged his tendon back in March like Melo and had an additional meniscus tear in the same knee, the thing that Lin refused to pay with, but JR played anyway..No kudos for that??..He re-aggregated it during the Boston series but didn't want to make excuses...He knew we had zero chance to win without him..But just let someone get a picture of him at a party and that must be the reason...

franco12 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:They said after that his knee flared up again in the Boston series..To me that makes more sense..But the other scanerio makes a great narrative..Run with it..

And if I'm hooping for the Knicks, banging Rhiannna, making 6 mil per...Yeah, I can't promise I won't take a hit from a bong in the offseason from time to time..

I don't even know how you're trying to defend JR with that right now. I don't think anyone believes an NBA player can't party and enjoy themselves, but when that partying effects their play negatively it becomes a problem. That is something JR has recently admitted to and that's after he'd already addressed that a couple of seasons ago.

And for your bong hit comment,

The NBA declined to comment specifically on Smith's violation. According to a summary of the program provided by the league, a third positive test for marijuana results in a suspension that is "five games longer than the player's immediately-preceding marijuana suspension." That is the sole scenario in which a five-game ban is administered.

would you be dumb enough to get caught 3 times?

JR's boneheaded play and behavior also cost this team more than wins or losses- it cost us an asset - we had to trade Shump with JR just to dump him. If he had been playing at the level he is in Cleveland, or close to it, we probably 1. would have kept Shump & 2. possibly gotten back a 1st rounder.

But, go ahead and defend JR. Yes, the team sucks. Yes, there is a leadership vacuum. But that doesn't excuse him from being a dickhead. F JR.

exactly.. the problem is JR and the solution is CLE is a lousy party town. Send him to the Lakers and its same old JR. Send him to Denver and he's high before he leaves the airport.

Dude shot 33% in the playoffs after winning 6th man. Why? Because he would rather dick around with that slut Rhianna than focus on the playoffs. The playoffs... yes. F-U JR. I hope Cle plays Mia in the first round or even BK so JR is out partying and plays like crap.. honestly I do.

He damaged his tendon back in March like Melo and had an additional meniscus tear in the same knee, the thing that Lin refused to pay with, but JR played anyway..No kudos for that??..He re-aggregated it during the Boston series but didn't want to make excuses...He knew we had zero chance to win without him..But just let someone get a picture of him at a party and that must be the reason...

No doubt JR was hurt in the playoffs.

But, he's also proved that he is & has been a knucklehead. The elbow to Terry. Out partying when hurt and your team is in the playoffs? Try what stat did when he had a detached retina.

There is dedication, and there is JR - and those are opposite ends of the spectrum. Or in JR's case, Rectum!

He went to a party during the playoffs..There was a three day layoff..Guys have you ever been young..3 days is enough to recoup...