EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Why is this being called an excellent post by some of you?

It's excellent to say we're doomed to be horrible for another decade?

This is sports not the 9/11... this is not the sports equivalent to building the freedom towers. This is not the earthquakes in haiti. It's sports.

We draft well, Melo comes back ready to go, we sign some legit nba players and mother****er we are back just like that. Stop swimming in misery you negative Nancy's. You can't bring positivity through negativity

its not being negative its being honest. Its not like we enjoy being critical but the knicks kind of put themselves in this position with terrible decisions. Granted getting a lottery pick is good BUT the draft is a crapshoot even though im a big believer in the draft. Cap space is good BUT doesnt guaranteed anything. Remember in 2010 we were in the same spot and missed out

It's not being honest is being obvious.....yeah we've sucked for 15 years so at this point were domed to suck for 10 more? Why so at 10? Are we waiting for FEMA? Jesus?

VCoug wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has Dolan really ruined anything he needs a winner as badly as we do for him it's money in the pockets for us it a good nights sleep. Instead of blaming Dolan lets see what he has tried to do to win. He brought in Isiah which at the time people liked, then he brought, Larry Brown which at the time people liked, he brought in Amare which at the time looked like a great move. He brought in Melo which most liked, so you have an owner trying to do his best but everything seems to back fire on him. His last move was to bring Phil Jackson which most people like to top it off he is out of the picture and gave the keys to Phil which everyone seems to like. I always said you want an owner like Dolan who spends money, I just think the people around him haven't managed his deep pockets to well.

Phil gets it you can see the plan taking place top pick to go with cap space, the Knicks will be relevant very quickly. Then we can thank Dolan for bringing in Phil Jackson. This is a very tough market to play in the media is harsh here and they look for any angle to take shots at the Knicks. You know and I know that the media here plays a huge role and sometime they scare good players away. To me the biggest culprit is the media they are the toughest team in town they damage the Knicks much harder than anyone.

As fans we need to realize also that this year is a major step in the right direction for this franchise and we need to let what is happening happen for the good. The Media wants to stir the fan base, with their useless stories. Fans need to be wise to it.

I really have a problem with the print media covering this team. They seem vindictive and eager to portray the team in the worst light possible. They do not recognize the Knicks losses as a tanked season, they see it as "atrocious". Our failure to give away more draft picks for RFAs at the trade deadline is characterized as Jackson being outwitted and outmaneuvered. I don't want to seem like a revisionist historian here, but although I had hope for the Knicks this season, it was always the best move for us to tank this season since we have our pick and had little hope of competing against the powerhouses THIS year. Honestly, I have stopped reading Berman and Isola outright. F--- them, go cover the Islanders. We need some writers that are fans too. Jackson has made good decisions IMO. Ones that I support. Not having the assets to make the deals for RFAs at the deadline is not his fault, its a characteristic of an organization that has mortgaged its future to try and appease the masses (stirred by the media) in the present.

I am pro-zenmaster too... and I will be pro whoever his successor is whenever he gets sick of the medias BS. But I hope PJ is the guy to take this team to the holy land. He really brought a ray of hope to this team -- even if we have to tank this year to put ourselves in the best position to win in the future.

Because it's not a tanked season. Phil took on extra salary past this season in an attempt to improve this team to the playoffs. He said that when he made the trade, he said it again prior to the beginning of the season, and he's said it again on multiple occasions that he thought he had built a playoff caliber team. Instead, he built the worst team in franchise history.

Not sure if you realize, but Calderon fits PJ's mold of a PG. Shoots over 40% from behind the arc. I can spew the usual crap why we weren't winning early (injuries, new coach, blah blah blah), but it was clear to me that the players were not buying into the triangle or may not have had the basketball IQ to comprehend it fully.

I won't spend time looking for the quotes, but I am pretty certain PJ warned that the system will take some time to implement. In fact, we all knew that guys like Amare were not good fits for tor the triangle. Even if it was not the intention going in, it certainly is the intention now. And they are pulling it off well.

We will be compared to GS since Kerr went there instead of here, and he is getting the most out of his players there. It is clearly the benchmark for the triangle now.

I never expected a one season fix. I always this to be a growing year and prefer that it come with a top 3 pick in the draft and not a middling playoff berth.

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

woodson SUCKS as a playoff coach. his career record in the playoffs beyond a meaningless first round is extremely awful. he gets out-coached... just ask frank vogel.

the 54-win team had a de facto coach on the floor named jason kidd. woodson didn't have to do much of anything except stay the **** out of the way....

VCoug wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

misterearl wrote:Despite the capacity crowds and the optimism of nixluva, the Answer Man reports a sobering fact of professional sports. There is no guarantee that the damage inflicted on our beloved basketball team can be corrected by all the Kings horses, Kings men and Uncle Phil.

Ten wins.

Think about that a moment. Unlike the Spurs, who had David Robinson and a magic draft pick, we have an injured, ego-centric shooter and not much else. There are moments the rose-tinted shades are raised and the glare from Golden State, San Antonio, Washington, Cleveland and even Atlanta... is blinding. Philadelphia and Boston will have a battalion of yoots to deploy.

We hang our hopes on Langston Galloway.

Most troubling, however, is the corporate mentality that relies on cash over creativity. The mission statement is callous and cold. We have no heart and soul. When the owner insults a loyal, yet frustrated, fan what more needs to be said?

It will require a decade of good karma, rolling sevens on a crapshoot of draft picks and the patience of as much time as it took to make the mess. Are you prepared for that?

All of us sense some degree of truth in the notion that Dolan is an inveterate poison and that the team may never win while he remains owner. But then reason comes back to us and we remember that players play, coaches coach, and owners run a business.

If the Knicks find their way through the forest to a clearing (not necessarily a chip, but at least back to multiple ECFs with a shot at winning it all) then please remember this post.

I already added it to my UK bookmarks folder for future reference. I won't hold it against you because I detest Dolan with all of my NYK fan spirit, but I also recognize that owners don't really hamper true winners. Time will tell.

I don't know why you think that. Just take a look at what Steinbrenner did to the Yankees for over a decade in the 80s and early 90s. He had to be banned from baseball operations for 3 years for the Yankees to recover.

Yet they did recover, and continued to prosper after 1996, despite Steinbrenner. And that's on account of adding Jeter, Mo, et al to the roster. 5 chips after 1996 basically proves my point.

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

woodson SUCKS as a playoff coach. his career record in the playoffs beyond a meaningless first round is extremely awful. he gets out-coached... just ask frank vogel.

the 54-win team had a de facto coach on the floor named jason kidd. woodson didn't have to do much of anything except stay the **** out of the way....

How many coaches in NBA history have there been? Now how many of those have winning percentages in playoff rounds 2 through 4? Maybe 5%?

i have no idea. i can only say that woodson is not one of them, AND that the manner in which his second round teams were annihilated tells me that he was NOT a good coach to begin with, and really not worthy of being turd-polished by holfresh.

misterearl wrote:Despite the capacity crowds and the optimism of nixluva, the Answer Man reports a sobering fact of professional sports. There is no guarantee that the damage inflicted on our beloved basketball team can be corrected by all the Kings horses, Kings men and Uncle Phil.

Ten wins.

Think about that a moment. Unlike the Spurs, who had David Robinson and a magic draft pick, we have an injured, ego-centric shooter and not much else. There are moments the rose-tinted shades are raised and the glare from Golden State, San Antonio, Washington, Cleveland and even Atlanta... is blinding. Philadelphia and Boston will have a battalion of yoots to deploy.

We hang our hopes on Langston Galloway.

Most troubling, however, is the corporate mentality that relies on cash over creativity. The mission statement is callous and cold. We have no heart and soul. When the owner insults a loyal, yet frustrated, fan what more needs to be said?

It will require a decade of good karma, rolling sevens on a crapshoot of draft picks and the patience of as much time as it took to make the mess. Are you prepared for that?

Actually the problem was when we were making desperate trades and taking on terrible contracts so we could win 30 something games (and we often even failed to do that). If we'd kept our picks and won just ten games back in the IT days, we would have been sitting pretty right now.

Once we've paid our final first round pick debt next year, we will finally be free from the pick-free stench that has enveloped us the past 20 years. From that day forth, when we suck we will be rewarded with a top pick.

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

Moonangie wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

misterearl wrote:Despite the capacity crowds and the optimism of nixluva, the Answer Man reports a sobering fact of professional sports. There is no guarantee that the damage inflicted on our beloved basketball team can be corrected by all the Kings horses, Kings men and Uncle Phil.

Ten wins.

Think about that a moment. Unlike the Spurs, who had David Robinson and a magic draft pick, we have an injured, ego-centric shooter and not much else. There are moments the rose-tinted shades are raised and the glare from Golden State, San Antonio, Washington, Cleveland and even Atlanta... is blinding. Philadelphia and Boston will have a battalion of yoots to deploy.

We hang our hopes on Langston Galloway.

Most troubling, however, is the corporate mentality that relies on cash over creativity. The mission statement is callous and cold. We have no heart and soul. When the owner insults a loyal, yet frustrated, fan what more needs to be said?

It will require a decade of good karma, rolling sevens on a crapshoot of draft picks and the patience of as much time as it took to make the mess. Are you prepared for that?

All of us sense some degree of truth in the notion that Dolan is an inveterate poison and that the team may never win while he remains owner. But then reason comes back to us and we remember that players play, coaches coach, and owners run a business.

If the Knicks find their way through the forest to a clearing (not necessarily a chip, but at least back to multiple ECFs with a shot at winning it all) then please remember this post.

I already added it to my UK bookmarks folder for future reference. I won't hold it against you because I detest Dolan with all of my NYK fan spirit, but I also recognize that owners don't really hamper true winners. Time will tell.

I don't know why you think that. Just take a look at what Steinbrenner did to the Yankees for over a decade in the 80s and early 90s. He had to be banned from baseball operations for 3 years for the Yankees to recover.

Yet they did recover, and continued to prosper after 1996, despite Steinbrenner. And that's on account of adding Jeter, Mo, et al to the roster. 5 chips after 1996 basically proves my point.

It doesn't prove your point at all; it proves mine. The team was rebuilt in the 3 years that Steinbrenner was suspended using the draft instead of high-priced free agents. That's not what we're doing. We're planning on drafting one guy this Summer and using free agency the next two years to try and build our contender.

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

misterearl wrote:Despite the capacity crowds and the optimism of nixluva, the Answer Man reports a sobering fact of professional sports. There is no guarantee that the damage inflicted on our beloved basketball team can be corrected by all the Kings horses, Kings men and Uncle Phil.

Ten wins.

Think about that a moment. Unlike the Spurs, who had David Robinson and a magic draft pick, we have an injured, ego-centric shooter and not much else. There are moments the rose-tinted shades are raised and the glare from Golden State, San Antonio, Washington, Cleveland and even Atlanta... is blinding. Philadelphia and Boston will have a battalion of yoots to deploy.

We hang our hopes on Langston Galloway.

Most troubling, however, is the corporate mentality that relies on cash over creativity. The mission statement is callous and cold. We have no heart and soul. When the owner insults a loyal, yet frustrated, fan what more needs to be said?

It will require a decade of good karma, rolling sevens on a crapshoot of draft picks and the patience of as much time as it took to make the mess. Are you prepared for that?

All of us sense some degree of truth in the notion that Dolan is an inveterate poison and that the team may never win while he remains owner. But then reason comes back to us and we remember that players play, coaches coach, and owners run a business.

If the Knicks find their way through the forest to a clearing (not necessarily a chip, but at least back to multiple ECFs with a shot at winning it all) then please remember this post.

I already added it to my UK bookmarks folder for future reference. I won't hold it against you because I detest Dolan with all of my NYK fan spirit, but I also recognize that owners don't really hamper true winners. Time will tell.

I don't know why you think that. Just take a look at what Steinbrenner did to the Yankees for over a decade in the 80s and early 90s. He had to be banned from baseball operations for 3 years for the Yankees to recover.

Yet they did recover, and continued to prosper after 1996, despite Steinbrenner. And that's on account of adding Jeter, Mo, et al to the roster. 5 chips after 1996 basically proves my point.

It doesn't prove your point at all; it proves mine. The team was rebuilt in the 3 years that Steinbrenner was suspended using the draft instead of high-priced free agents. That's not what we're doing. We're planning on drafting one guy this Summer and using free agency the next two years to try and build our contender.

The current regime doesn't have a choice. The picks were traded prior to their arrival. Small moves to get second rounders help. Utilizing scouting and the d league helps but the Knicks need to get a couple of good players in free agency also.

Yes, they did have a choice. We could have traded Tyson for real assets instead of Calderon and two 2nd round picks. We could have S&T Melo to Chicago for a good to great package of picks, young players, and Boozer's expiring contract. If we had drafted well we still could have tanked this season when we have our own pick but we'd be building an actual team where we'd be adding a lottery pick to a group of 3 or 4 talented, young players that have a future with us. And we'd have even more cap space than we do now. Instead, we'll be adding a lottery pick to a team with one player who deserves to be here and he'll be coming off a 4-6 month recovery from knee surgery.

TeamBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

We deserve a bad season....because we let Woodson go?

Curse of Ewing...

Now that I can get behind if we're talking karma. Curse of Woodson? Not so much.

Damn I've been away from the site for a while and everyone is still saying the same old damn thing.
The blame game. This NBA league was structured to keep their foot on teams like the Knicks neck. hell the Knicks can pay a player 100 million and then buy him out and pay 3 more starter 100 million and still make money. But the league won't allow it. They are protecting the smaller markets. It's more ruined like a communists system.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

woodson SUCKS as a playoff coach. his career record in the playoffs beyond a meaningless first round is extremely awful. he gets out-coached... just ask frank vogel.

the 54-win team had a de facto coach on the floor named jason kidd. woodson didn't have to do much of anything except stay the **** out of the way....

dk, what's better?..Debating the reasons we lost to Indiana in the second round or debating which day in March we will get our 11th win??