mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:When even you yourself admit what you've done is failed, it's safe to say it's obvious enough that the media will be on your case. You don't get away in NY with turning a .500 team into a .200 team. He helped lower the bar a lot though. If he merely brings us back to .500 next year, he'll probably be getting praise.

The NY media is by far the dumbest media around. We were once known as the city for sport, but this dumb media is really destroying us. None of these "so called" experts probably have never played sports in their lives, but they claim to know WTF they are talking about.

I would limit this to the writers. The talkshow ESPN/WFAN guys are generally good, fair and give solid interviews. The beat guys are a total joke. Splat could cover the Knicks better. They write nothing of substance. NOTHING.

I also think the impact on players is grossly overrated. There are a lot of distractions in NYC (see JR) for players who are distractable but who really cares. Go play.

yeah - the writers are pretty awful. I have not seen a single article from them that actually had any insight.

I feel like we can all teach them a lot about the game and the knicks.

I do respect other articles outside of our local tabloids like the article in regards to shot selection and efficiency that I posted yesterday. The writer actually put a lot of brains and work into it.

Best writer at the moment is Chris herring from the Wall Street journal, surprisingly. He's funny without being nasty and doesn't have an agenda.

His latest article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fisher-draws-the-short-end-of-triangle-1423014876

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its funny that the only ones who believe that this system will work is Jackson and die hard / desperate knick fans.

And Luke Walton just quoted that GS runs a lot of triangle under Kerr, just not soley. I totally disagree here. What do you think the triangle is? Its arcane? Its simply a spacing system. Te complexity is in the 5 moving parts. Less "arcane" systems like the P&R rely on the 2 man game so if your not picking or rolling your standing in a spot waiting for the ball.

Phucks sakes its hoops... not linear algebra. So yea.. its a lot on the coaching staff to train everyone in the new system and the problem is there isnt a way to dummy it down. Everyone needs to know everything, as opposed to your 2 man system which will have 2-3 guys with much simplier roles.

Excellent post!!! Kerr is smart using MDA, Pop and PJax influences with a ready made roster. IMO the Triangle can take less time to implement when you have more talent and high BB IQ players to begin with. However, it still will take some time to develop the chemistry. Right now the least we have to worry about is the system. Phil has to get this roster right 1st and foremost.

Hey nix and mreinman, there are a few threads going so not sure if this is the best one for these questions/observations, but here it goes:

when here had SSOL, or SOSSOL (Son of SSOL). I was very interested in seeing that work here, and we debated over and over whether the problem was the system ("There's no defense!") or that never had the players he needed. Linsanity proved to some that SSOL can work with the right players. With hindsight, what is your opinion about the success/failure of SSOL as a system in the NBA at that time?

3-4 years later we are now embarking on another system: the Triangle, and again proposing that until the right players come along, it won't work.

Melo was here as our star player for both of these systems. Do either of these systems do anything to capitalize on his game?

Or for all the crap Woodson got, maybe he made the most responsible choice in molding his playbook around the personnel? And just on an efficiency/value proposition, shouldn't this approach be the default?

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:When even you yourself admit what you've done is failed, it's safe to say it's obvious enough that the media will be on your case. You don't get away in NY with turning a .500 team into a .200 team. He helped lower the bar a lot though. If he merely brings us back to .500 next year, he'll probably be getting praise.

The NY media is by far the dumbest media around. We were once known as the city for sport, but this dumb media is really destroying us. None of these "so called" experts probably have never played sports in their lives, but they claim to know WTF they are talking about.

I would limit this to the writers. The talkshow ESPN/WFAN guys are generally good, fair and give solid interviews. The beat guys are a total joke. Splat could cover the Knicks better. They write nothing of substance. NOTHING.

I also think the impact on players is grossly overrated. There are a lot of distractions in NYC (see JR) for players who are distractable but who really cares. Go play.

yeah - the writers are pretty awful. I have not seen a single article from them that actually had any insight.

I feel like we can all teach them a lot about the game and the knicks.

I do respect other articles outside of our local tabloids like the article in regards to shot selection and efficiency that I posted yesterday. The writer actually put a lot of brains and work into it.

Best writer at the moment is Chris herring from the Wall Street journal, surprisingly. He's funny without being nasty and doesn't have an agenda.

His latest article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fisher-draws-the-short-end-of-triangle-1423014876

Can't load this, I get an http GET error.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:When even you yourself admit what you've done is failed, it's safe to say it's obvious enough that the media will be on your case. You don't get away in NY with turning a .500 team into a .200 team. He helped lower the bar a lot though. If he merely brings us back to .500 next year, he'll probably be getting praise.

The NY media is by far the dumbest media around. We were once known as the city for sport, but this dumb media is really destroying us. None of these "so called" experts probably have never played sports in their lives, but they claim to know WTF they are talking about.

I would limit this to the writers. The talkshow ESPN/WFAN guys are generally good, fair and give solid interviews. The beat guys are a total joke. Splat could cover the Knicks better. They write nothing of substance. NOTHING.

I also think the impact on players is grossly overrated. There are a lot of distractions in NYC (see JR) for players who are distractable but who really cares. Go play.

yeah - the writers are pretty awful. I have not seen a single article from them that actually had any insight.

I feel like we can all teach them a lot about the game and the knicks.

I do respect other articles outside of our local tabloids like the article in regards to shot selection and efficiency that I posted yesterday. The writer actually put a lot of brains and work into it.

Best writer at the moment is Chris herring from the Wall Street journal, surprisingly. He's funny without being nasty and doesn't have an agenda.

His latest article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fisher-draws-the-short-end-of-triangle-1423014876

Can't load this, I get an http GET error.

I'll try posting again, it's not an earth shattering article, but I don't think ultimateknicks posts wsj articles on its main page

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fisher-draws-the-short-end-of-triangle-1423014876

His Twitter is very funny too.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its funny that the only ones who believe that this system will work is Jackson and die hard / desperate knick fans.

And Luke Walton just quoted that GS runs a lot of triangle under Kerr, just not soley. I totally disagree here. What do you think the triangle is? Its arcane? Its simply a spacing system. Te complexity is in the 5 moving parts. Less "arcane" systems like the P&R rely on the 2 man game so if your not picking or rolling your standing in a spot waiting for the ball.

Phucks sakes its hoops... not linear algebra. So yea.. its a lot on the coaching staff to train everyone in the new system and the problem is there isnt a way to dummy it down. Everyone needs to know everything, as opposed to your 2 man system which will have 2-3 guys with much simplier roles.

Excellent post!!! Kerr is smart using MDA, Pop and PJax influences with a ready made roster. IMO the Triangle can take less time to implement when you have more talent and high BB IQ players to begin with. However, it still will take some time to develop the chemistry. Right now the least we have to worry about is the system. Phil has to get this roster right 1st and foremost.

Hey nix and mreinman, there are a few threads going so not sure if this is the best one for these questions/observations, but here it goes:

when here had SSOL, or SOSSOL (Son of SSOL). I was very interested in seeing that work here, and we debated over and over whether the problem was the system ("There's no defense!") or that never had the players he needed. Linsanity proved to some that SSOL can work with the right players. With hindsight, what is your opinion about the success/failure of SSOL as a system in the NBA at that time?

3-4 years later we are now embarking on another system: the Triangle, and again proposing that until the right players come along, it won't work.

Melo was here as our star player for both of these systems. Do either of these systems do anything to capitalize on his game?

Or for all the crap Woodson got, maybe he made the most responsible choice in molding his playbook around the personnel? And just on an efficiency/value proposition, shouldn't this approach be the default?

Riley, Pop, etc ...

They adjust the system to their personnel and statistics. They don't try to ram their players into a "system".

MDA was brilliant but he had the same problem, he needed to prove his system. He believe in the rapid 3's regardless of who is shooting it. So, we have Tony Doublass leading the knicks in 3 point attempts at 26 percent and he just keeps shooting. That is ridiculous.

MDA was out to prove SSOL because that defined him, and phil is out to prove the triangle because that defines him.

Pop wants to just win. He could care less about which system as long as it fits his personnel. Same with Riley.

Jackson hands down one of the best coaches ever, can't argue that though it was not necessarily the system but his own greatness as a coach and his great players.

Woodson was just a dope who was lucky enough to have one of the NBA's best young coaches on the floor for him.

I would like to see an offensive system that is a hybrid of lessons learned and statistical trends of other systems.

Amazing 6 championships in a row when coaching. 3 with Bulls, year off. 3 in a row with Lakers.

The system works. I am willing to give pjax a few years to implement it with the talent he wants.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:11 rings in 20 years of coaching the system. 2 years runner up also. Only 8 of 20 years did not end up in finals.

Amazing 6 championships in a row when coaching. 3 with Bulls, year off. 3 in a row with Lakers.

The system works. I am willing to give pjax a few years to implement it with the talent he wants.

+1. It is time we boycott the dumb and lazy media.

nixluva wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its funny that the only ones who believe that this system will work is Jackson and die hard / desperate knick fans.

And Luke Walton just quoted that GS runs a lot of triangle under Kerr, just not soley. I totally disagree here. What do you think the triangle is? Its arcane? Its simply a spacing system. Te complexity is in the 5 moving parts. Less "arcane" systems like the P&R rely on the 2 man game so if your not picking or rolling your standing in a spot waiting for the ball.

Phucks sakes its hoops... not linear algebra. So yea.. its a lot on the coaching staff to train everyone in the new system and the problem is there isnt a way to dummy it down. Everyone needs to know everything, as opposed to your 2 man system which will have 2-3 guys with much simplier roles.

Excellent post!!! Kerr is smart using MDA, Pop and PJax influences with a ready made roster. IMO the Triangle can take less time to implement when you have more talent and high BB IQ players to begin with. However, it still will take some time to develop the chemistry. Right now the least we have to worry about is the system. Phil has to get this roster right 1st and foremost.

Hey nix and mreinman, there are a few threads going so not sure if this is the best one for these questions/observations, but here it goes:

when here had SSOL, or SOSSOL (Son of SSOL). I was very interested in seeing that work here, and we debated over and over whether the problem was the system ("There's no defense!") or that never had the players he needed. Linsanity proved to some that SSOL can work with the right players. With hindsight, what is your opinion about the success/failure of SSOL as a system in the NBA at that time?

3-4 years later we are now embarking on another system: the Triangle, and again proposing that until the right players come along, it won't work.

Melo was here as our star player for both of these systems. Do either of these systems do anything to capitalize on his game?

Or for all the crap Woodson got, maybe he made the most responsible choice in molding his playbook around the personnel? And just on an efficiency/value proposition, shouldn't this approach be the default?

MDA got a raw deal here. He needed the owner and GM to be firmly in his corner. It just can't work if you have a GM and owner not working to give a system coach what he needs. We needed to fully get behind one philosophy and build the team in that direction. In PHX MDA got real close and really it was some fluke stuff that happened and a little bit of cheating by the Spurs in terms of dirty tactics, but overall he was successful when he had the kind of players that could excel in his system. MDA's influence on the league was huge despite the grief he gets about his coaching.

Pop eventually moved in MDA's direction but with the plus of having Duncan which was a huge plus. So he was able to blend his own stuff with some of MDA and Phil's stuff. With all the talent he has it's a potent style of play.

Kerr may have bumped heads with MDA in PHX but he's not stupid. He has MDA's Assistant Alvin Gentry who ran MDA's system after he left, with him now. So he can mix a bunch of stuff from MDA, Pop and PJax. Kerr already had a roster that fit a SSOL style perfectly, which is why he has Gentry. Mixing in other stuff just makes the offense even more potent.

Budenholzer in Atlanta has also adopted the mix of stuff that Pop has done in SA. He was a partner in developing that offense. He has a roster that can really excel playing that way. If he didn't have the kind of talent and BB IQ it may not work as well.

So basically system basketball works, but you have to have talent. Skilled and high BB IQ talent. If you have a team with tons of singularly talented players you may not really need a very deep system. Teams likely won't be able to just collect elite players like the recent past anymore. So these systems are a way to maximize a team with lot of 2nd tier talent. That's the direction the Knicks are likely headed.

Looking back, you have to wonder how the history of the Knicks would have been altered if we had managed to pick up Curry in that draft- MDA might still be here, and who knows what direction we would have gone in FA if MDA had started to build a team around Curry.

If he Wins, he will be treated like Eli Manning or Mark Messier or Derek Jeter

Knicks1969 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:11 rings in 20 years of coaching the system. 2 years runner up also. Only 8 of 20 years did not end up in finals.

Amazing 6 championships in a row when coaching. 3 with Bulls, year off. 3 in a row with Lakers.

The system works. I am willing to give pjax a few years to implement it with the talent he wants.

+1. It is time we boycott the dumb and lazy media.

whats with the double posting all over the place?