dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

There isn't one NBA front office exec who doesn't view Melo as a capable starting player on a championship level team. So maybe you are smarter than them all, who knows.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

so you don't think that he is good enough to start on a championship team??

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

so you don't think that he is good enough to start on a championship team??

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

so you don't think that he is good enough to start on a championship team??

Is there really any difference between the league's best 6th men like Manu and a #3 or 4 starter?

that was not his point.

he is saying that he puts Melo with players like Boozer and Josh Smith which is ridiculous.

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

There isn't one NBA front office exec who doesn't view Melo as a capable starting player on a championship level team. So maybe you are smarter than them all, who knows.

well i am not being paid to field a champion, and i am not under the kind of pressure to do so. but since gms are being paid and are under that pressure, there is a very high probability that there judgement is both clouded and compromised.

because you have to add that most gms are also somehow responsible for making sure that asses are put in seats-- since winning apparently does not suffice. or, put another way, nba basketball is not merely a sport but an entertainment business-- and mistakes will be made... even by phil jackson.

just look a the knicks if you want to get a great example of what i mean. for isn't what i am describing EXACTLY what has been going on in msg for the last 15 years?

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO the Hawks core 8 players are a very nice group of players, that make sense together and fit the style the coach has them playing. Productive, smart and team oriented players. It seems more attainable than trying to collect 3 stars and hoping you can fill out the rest of the roster. It would take careful decision making and patience. As others have talked about the Hawks almost messed it up several times. It also takes GUTS to go this way since most fans want teams to have big name talent. This approach is less sexy and harder for a GM to justify if the team doesn't take off right away.

                      G   FG     FG%    3P%     FT%     OREB    DREB    REB     AST     STL     TO      PF      PTS
1. Jeff Teague        37   5.9	 47.9%	35.4%	86.8%	0.4	2.3	2.7	7.4	1.8	2.6	1.9	17.4
2. Paul Millsap       40   6.1   47.7%	33.3%	73.3%	1.7	6.3	7.9	3.2	1.8	2.4	2.7	16.9
3. Al Horford         39   6.8   53.8%	33.3%	73.4%	1.4	5.2	6.6	3.1	0.6	1.2	1.8	15.2
4. Kyle Korver        40   4.2   51.5%	53.6%	92%	0.3	3.9	4.2	2.9	0.7	1.5	1.8	13.2
5. DeMarre Carroll    36   4.1   45.4%	38.8%	68.7%	1.5	4.1	5.6	1.4	1.3	0.9	2.4	11.7
6. Dennis Schroder    39   3.2   44.4%	24.5%	75.3%	0.3	1.6	1.9	3.2	0.9	1.8	1.5	8.1
7. Mike Scott         39   2.7   44.7%	38.5%	83.3%	0.5	2	2.5	1	0.2	0.7	1.3	7.4
8. Thabo Sefolosha    39   1.9   42%	28.6%	78.7%	1	3.4	4.5	1.6	1.1	0.7	1.4	5.3
9. Kent Bazemore      34   1.2   42.4%	44.1%	60%	0.1	2	2.1	0.6	0.3	0.6	1.3	3.4
10 Shelvin Mack       31   1.7   37.3%	30.6%	78.9%	0.2	1.3	1.5	2.8	0.4	0.9	0.5	4.5
11 Pero Antic         30   2     41.2%	33%	69.8%	0.9	1.9	2.8	0.9	0.3	0.9	2.3	6.3
12 Elton Brand        16   1.4   46.8%	—	46.2%	1.1	1.9	3	0.5	0.5	0.4	1.5	3.1
13 Mike Muscala       14   1.9   53.1%	25%	85.7%	1.3	1	2.3	0.3	0.3	0.5	0.9	4.2
14 John Jenkins       3    1.7   45.5%	33.3%	100%	—	0.7	0.7	—	0.3	0.3	0.7	4
15 Adreian Payne      3    0.7   28.6%	—	50%	0.3	1	1.3	—	0.3	—	1.3	1.7

Phil has a philosophy which should make it easier for him to target specific players who can excel playing the way he wants to play. Phil has to start with his core and build out from there. The Hawks adding Millsap and Korver to Teague and Horford was a huge cornerstone to this teams success. Seeing how they are structured should give hope to the Knick Fans who are wondering how this can work. We will have a different mix of players with Phil doing the choosing but the principle should be the same. Productive, 2 way, well rounded players who can excel in a team oriented system.

you are forgetting that we already have Melo who is a plan fukker upper

Well I Don't think Melo would necessarily mess up Phil's plan. Anytime Melo played with a legit group they had some success so why should he be a detriment to success here with a good group of players? I'm only interested in seeing if Phil can put together a good core group of 8 players we can depend on to produce. The best rosters that Melo has played with weren't great but those teams played well. The WCF's team in Denver and the 54 win team here in NY weren't great teams but at least gave us an indication of what can happen if you put the right talent around Melo.

This time we need to put a team together that has lasting power as well as being a great fit with each other. Just looking at what they did in Atlanta it makes it much more feasible that we could put together a good core group here as well. It's a good model in terms of the kind of players we should be looking for. Efficient players with good overall skills. Melo is just one player and we have a boatload of minutes to assign to the rest of the rotation.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO the Hawks core 8 players are a very nice group of players, that make sense together and fit the style the coach has them playing. Productive, smart and team oriented players. It seems more attainable than trying to collect 3 stars and hoping you can fill out the rest of the roster. It would take careful decision making and patience. As others have talked about the Hawks almost messed it up several times. It also takes GUTS to go this way since most fans want teams to have big name talent. This approach is less sexy and harder for a GM to justify if the team doesn't take off right away.

                      G   FG     FG%    3P%     FT%     OREB    DREB    REB     AST     STL     TO      PF      PTS
1. Jeff Teague        37   5.9	 47.9%	35.4%	86.8%	0.4	2.3	2.7	7.4	1.8	2.6	1.9	17.4
2. Paul Millsap       40   6.1   47.7%	33.3%	73.3%	1.7	6.3	7.9	3.2	1.8	2.4	2.7	16.9
3. Al Horford         39   6.8   53.8%	33.3%	73.4%	1.4	5.2	6.6	3.1	0.6	1.2	1.8	15.2
4. Kyle Korver        40   4.2   51.5%	53.6%	92%	0.3	3.9	4.2	2.9	0.7	1.5	1.8	13.2
5. DeMarre Carroll    36   4.1   45.4%	38.8%	68.7%	1.5	4.1	5.6	1.4	1.3	0.9	2.4	11.7
6. Dennis Schroder    39   3.2   44.4%	24.5%	75.3%	0.3	1.6	1.9	3.2	0.9	1.8	1.5	8.1
7. Mike Scott         39   2.7   44.7%	38.5%	83.3%	0.5	2	2.5	1	0.2	0.7	1.3	7.4
8. Thabo Sefolosha    39   1.9   42%	28.6%	78.7%	1	3.4	4.5	1.6	1.1	0.7	1.4	5.3
9. Kent Bazemore      34   1.2   42.4%	44.1%	60%	0.1	2	2.1	0.6	0.3	0.6	1.3	3.4
10 Shelvin Mack       31   1.7   37.3%	30.6%	78.9%	0.2	1.3	1.5	2.8	0.4	0.9	0.5	4.5
11 Pero Antic         30   2     41.2%	33%	69.8%	0.9	1.9	2.8	0.9	0.3	0.9	2.3	6.3
12 Elton Brand        16   1.4   46.8%	—	46.2%	1.1	1.9	3	0.5	0.5	0.4	1.5	3.1
13 Mike Muscala       14   1.9   53.1%	25%	85.7%	1.3	1	2.3	0.3	0.3	0.5	0.9	4.2
14 John Jenkins       3    1.7   45.5%	33.3%	100%	—	0.7	0.7	—	0.3	0.3	0.7	4
15 Adreian Payne      3    0.7   28.6%	—	50%	0.3	1	1.3	—	0.3	—	1.3	1.7

Phil has a philosophy which should make it easier for him to target specific players who can excel playing the way he wants to play. Phil has to start with his core and build out from there. The Hawks adding Millsap and Korver to Teague and Horford was a huge cornerstone to this teams success. Seeing how they are structured should give hope to the Knick Fans who are wondering how this can work. We will have a different mix of players with Phil doing the choosing but the principle should be the same. Productive, 2 way, well rounded players who can excel in a team oriented system.

you are forgetting that we already have Melo who is a plan fukker upper

Well I Don't think Melo would necessarily mess up Phil's plan. Anytime Melo played with a legit group they had some success so why should he be a detriment to success here with a good group of players? I'm only interested in seeing if Phil can put together a good core group of 8 players we can depend on to produce. The best rosters that Melo has played with weren't great but those teams played well. The WCF's team in Denver and the 54 win team here in NY weren't great teams but at least gave us an indication of what can happen if you put the right talent around Melo.

This time we need to put a team together that has lasting power as well as being a great fit with each other. Just looking at what they did in Atlanta it makes it much more feasible that we could put together a good core group here as well. It's a good model in terms of the kind of players we should be looking for. Efficient players with good overall skills. Melo is just one player and we have a boatload of minutes to assign to the rest of the rotation.

Melo can play well if surrounded by good players and leaders who he must defer to.

the issue is that he is making too much money and there is a very good chance that he will break down and we will be stuck with another injured cap killer.

He is too big to fail. too risky.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO the Hawks core 8 players are a very nice group of players, that make sense together and fit the style the coach has them playing. Productive, smart and team oriented players. It seems more attainable than trying to collect 3 stars and hoping you can fill out the rest of the roster. It would take careful decision making and patience. As others have talked about the Hawks almost messed it up several times. It also takes GUTS to go this way since most fans want teams to have big name talent. This approach is less sexy and harder for a GM to justify if the team doesn't take off right away.

                      G   FG     FG%    3P%     FT%     OREB    DREB    REB     AST     STL     TO      PF      PTS
1. Jeff Teague        37   5.9	 47.9%	35.4%	86.8%	0.4	2.3	2.7	7.4	1.8	2.6	1.9	17.4
2. Paul Millsap       40   6.1   47.7%	33.3%	73.3%	1.7	6.3	7.9	3.2	1.8	2.4	2.7	16.9
3. Al Horford         39   6.8   53.8%	33.3%	73.4%	1.4	5.2	6.6	3.1	0.6	1.2	1.8	15.2
4. Kyle Korver        40   4.2   51.5%	53.6%	92%	0.3	3.9	4.2	2.9	0.7	1.5	1.8	13.2
5. DeMarre Carroll    36   4.1   45.4%	38.8%	68.7%	1.5	4.1	5.6	1.4	1.3	0.9	2.4	11.7
6. Dennis Schroder    39   3.2   44.4%	24.5%	75.3%	0.3	1.6	1.9	3.2	0.9	1.8	1.5	8.1
7. Mike Scott         39   2.7   44.7%	38.5%	83.3%	0.5	2	2.5	1	0.2	0.7	1.3	7.4
8. Thabo Sefolosha    39   1.9   42%	28.6%	78.7%	1	3.4	4.5	1.6	1.1	0.7	1.4	5.3
9. Kent Bazemore      34   1.2   42.4%	44.1%	60%	0.1	2	2.1	0.6	0.3	0.6	1.3	3.4
10 Shelvin Mack       31   1.7   37.3%	30.6%	78.9%	0.2	1.3	1.5	2.8	0.4	0.9	0.5	4.5
11 Pero Antic         30   2     41.2%	33%	69.8%	0.9	1.9	2.8	0.9	0.3	0.9	2.3	6.3
12 Elton Brand        16   1.4   46.8%	—	46.2%	1.1	1.9	3	0.5	0.5	0.4	1.5	3.1
13 Mike Muscala       14   1.9   53.1%	25%	85.7%	1.3	1	2.3	0.3	0.3	0.5	0.9	4.2
14 John Jenkins       3    1.7   45.5%	33.3%	100%	—	0.7	0.7	—	0.3	0.3	0.7	4
15 Adreian Payne      3    0.7   28.6%	—	50%	0.3	1	1.3	—	0.3	—	1.3	1.7

Phil has a philosophy which should make it easier for him to target specific players who can excel playing the way he wants to play. Phil has to start with his core and build out from there. The Hawks adding Millsap and Korver to Teague and Horford was a huge cornerstone to this teams success. Seeing how they are structured should give hope to the Knick Fans who are wondering how this can work. We will have a different mix of players with Phil doing the choosing but the principle should be the same. Productive, 2 way, well rounded players who can excel in a team oriented system.

you are forgetting that we already have Melo who is a plan fukker upper

Well I Don't think Melo would necessarily mess up Phil's plan. Anytime Melo played with a legit group they had some success so why should he be a detriment to success here with a good group of players? I'm only interested in seeing if Phil can put together a good core group of 8 players we can depend on to produce. The best rosters that Melo has played with weren't great but those teams played well. The WCF's team in Denver and the 54 win team here in NY weren't great teams but at least gave us an indication of what can happen if you put the right talent around Melo.

This time we need to put a team together that has lasting power as well as being a great fit with each other. Just looking at what they did in Atlanta it makes it much more feasible that we could put together a good core group here as well. It's a good model in terms of the kind of players we should be looking for. Efficient players with good overall skills. Melo is just one player and we have a boatload of minutes to assign to the rest of the rotation.

Melo can play well if surrounded by good players and leaders who he must defer to.

the issue is that he is making too much money and there is a very good chance that he will break down and we will be stuck with another injured cap killer.He is too big to fail. too risky.

There is a good chance any player at any given time could break down. Horford has injury risks too, that's just part of the game. The key is putting enough talent alongside Melo so his usage and minutes can be lowered and he isn't working as hard for shots.

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

misterearl wrote:Continuity

Knixkik - excellent summary and perspective. If Melo is our Al Horford, the question is whether Uncle Phil will acquire that special player who he is compatible with on the court... or select players with Melo as an afterthought.

Of the current roster, is there one player who meets the criteria of core player?

No there isn't, and that is the main problem. We have a ton of guys who can end up being quality role players and guys to round out the bench, but we don't have the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guy needed to put together that core, like Atl has.

horford is a two-way player and earns 12 mill
milsap is a two-way player and earns 9.5 mill

that's a total of 21.5 million for a core frontcourt

then there's teague who is turning into a two-way player

and

korver who, well, lets just say he is the ultimate advanced stat player with a TS% of 74 and a usg:ast of 1:1, which means he is a great team passer.

they got rid of josh smith and williams, both of whom are expensive, inefficient one-way players.

here with the knicks we have one player in carmelo anthony who you claim or imply is a core player, but he merely is a one-way player who yet earns more than both horford and milsap combined.

how can any player be considered a "core player" if he does not defend adequately?

carmelo anthony is not a core player so the honest response is that the knicks lack a single core player that is of starting-level caliber.
the knicks have a handful of potential two-way players who right now look to become solid bench-caliber personnel.

This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously.

i honestly think the joke's on you and others who share your point of view, but tell me... what is it about carmelo anthony that allows him to earn the right to start on a championship-level team? the money he being overpaid? or is it something else?

i see a very good sixth man being paid more than twice of what he is worth.

so you don't think that he is good enough to start on a championship team??

no.

i see a guy who is actually closer to a boozer/josh smith type of player than a lebron/durant player.

i know... right?

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO the Hawks core 8 players are a very nice group of players, that make sense together and fit the style the coach has them playing. Productive, smart and team oriented players. It seems more attainable than trying to collect 3 stars and hoping you can fill out the rest of the roster. It would take careful decision making and patience. As others have talked about the Hawks almost messed it up several times. It also takes GUTS to go this way since most fans want teams to have big name talent. This approach is less sexy and harder for a GM to justify if the team doesn't take off right away.

                      G   FG     FG%    3P%     FT%     OREB    DREB    REB     AST     STL     TO      PF      PTS
1. Jeff Teague        37   5.9	 47.9%	35.4%	86.8%	0.4	2.3	2.7	7.4	1.8	2.6	1.9	17.4
2. Paul Millsap       40   6.1   47.7%	33.3%	73.3%	1.7	6.3	7.9	3.2	1.8	2.4	2.7	16.9
3. Al Horford         39   6.8   53.8%	33.3%	73.4%	1.4	5.2	6.6	3.1	0.6	1.2	1.8	15.2
4. Kyle Korver        40   4.2   51.5%	53.6%	92%	0.3	3.9	4.2	2.9	0.7	1.5	1.8	13.2
5. DeMarre Carroll    36   4.1   45.4%	38.8%	68.7%	1.5	4.1	5.6	1.4	1.3	0.9	2.4	11.7
6. Dennis Schroder    39   3.2   44.4%	24.5%	75.3%	0.3	1.6	1.9	3.2	0.9	1.8	1.5	8.1
7. Mike Scott         39   2.7   44.7%	38.5%	83.3%	0.5	2	2.5	1	0.2	0.7	1.3	7.4
8. Thabo Sefolosha    39   1.9   42%	28.6%	78.7%	1	3.4	4.5	1.6	1.1	0.7	1.4	5.3
9. Kent Bazemore      34   1.2   42.4%	44.1%	60%	0.1	2	2.1	0.6	0.3	0.6	1.3	3.4
10 Shelvin Mack       31   1.7   37.3%	30.6%	78.9%	0.2	1.3	1.5	2.8	0.4	0.9	0.5	4.5
11 Pero Antic         30   2     41.2%	33%	69.8%	0.9	1.9	2.8	0.9	0.3	0.9	2.3	6.3
12 Elton Brand        16   1.4   46.8%	—	46.2%	1.1	1.9	3	0.5	0.5	0.4	1.5	3.1
13 Mike Muscala       14   1.9   53.1%	25%	85.7%	1.3	1	2.3	0.3	0.3	0.5	0.9	4.2
14 John Jenkins       3    1.7   45.5%	33.3%	100%	—	0.7	0.7	—	0.3	0.3	0.7	4
15 Adreian Payne      3    0.7   28.6%	—	50%	0.3	1	1.3	—	0.3	—	1.3	1.7

Phil has a philosophy which should make it easier for him to target specific players who can excel playing the way he wants to play. Phil has to start with his core and build out from there. The Hawks adding Millsap and Korver to Teague and Horford was a huge cornerstone to this teams success. Seeing how they are structured should give hope to the Knick Fans who are wondering how this can work. We will have a different mix of players with Phil doing the choosing but the principle should be the same. Productive, 2 way, well rounded players who can excel in a team oriented system.

you are forgetting that we already have Melo who is a plan fukker upper

Well I Don't think Melo would necessarily mess up Phil's plan. Anytime Melo played with a legit group they had some success so why should he be a detriment to success here with a good group of players? I'm only interested in seeing if Phil can put together a good core group of 8 players we can depend on to produce. The best rosters that Melo has played with weren't great but those teams played well. The WCF's team in Denver and the 54 win team here in NY weren't great teams but at least gave us an indication of what can happen if you put the right talent around Melo.

This time we need to put a team together that has lasting power as well as being a great fit with each other. Just looking at what they did in Atlanta it makes it much more feasible that we could put together a good core group here as well. It's a good model in terms of the kind of players we should be looking for. Efficient players with good overall skills. Melo is just one player and we have a boatload of minutes to assign to the rest of the rotation.

Melo can play well if surrounded by good players and leaders who he must defer to.

the issue is that he is making too much money and there is a very good chance that he will break down and we will be stuck with another injured cap killer.He is too big to fail. too risky.

There is a good chance any player at any given time could break down. Horford has injury risks too, that's just part of the game. The key is putting enough talent alongside Melo so his usage and minutes can be lowered and he isn't working as hard for shots.

Thats exactly the point. Horford eats up much less of the cap just like the rest of their players.

So, if any of them go down, your money is spread out to other solid players. They can afford this with the way they are constructed.

They can probably lose any player for an extended period of time and not miss a beat.

Yeah, diversification of investments pays off. Durant and Lebron are probably the only two players in the league I'd violate that general principle for by giving the super max.

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO the Hawks core 8 players are a very nice group of players, that make sense together and fit the style the coach has them playing. Productive, smart and team oriented players. It seems more attainable than trying to collect 3 stars and hoping you can fill out the rest of the roster. It would take careful decision making and patience. As others have talked about the Hawks almost messed it up several times. It also takes GUTS to go this way since most fans want teams to have big name talent. This approach is less sexy and harder for a GM to justify if the team doesn't take off right away.

                      G   FG     FG%    3P%     FT%     OREB    DREB    REB     AST     STL     TO      PF      PTS
1. Jeff Teague        37   5.9	 47.9%	35.4%	86.8%	0.4	2.3	2.7	7.4	1.8	2.6	1.9	17.4
2. Paul Millsap       40   6.1   47.7%	33.3%	73.3%	1.7	6.3	7.9	3.2	1.8	2.4	2.7	16.9
3. Al Horford         39   6.8   53.8%	33.3%	73.4%	1.4	5.2	6.6	3.1	0.6	1.2	1.8	15.2
4. Kyle Korver        40   4.2   51.5%	53.6%	92%	0.3	3.9	4.2	2.9	0.7	1.5	1.8	13.2
5. DeMarre Carroll    36   4.1   45.4%	38.8%	68.7%	1.5	4.1	5.6	1.4	1.3	0.9	2.4	11.7
6. Dennis Schroder    39   3.2   44.4%	24.5%	75.3%	0.3	1.6	1.9	3.2	0.9	1.8	1.5	8.1
7. Mike Scott         39   2.7   44.7%	38.5%	83.3%	0.5	2	2.5	1	0.2	0.7	1.3	7.4
8. Thabo Sefolosha    39   1.9   42%	28.6%	78.7%	1	3.4	4.5	1.6	1.1	0.7	1.4	5.3
9. Kent Bazemore      34   1.2   42.4%	44.1%	60%	0.1	2	2.1	0.6	0.3	0.6	1.3	3.4
10 Shelvin Mack       31   1.7   37.3%	30.6%	78.9%	0.2	1.3	1.5	2.8	0.4	0.9	0.5	4.5
11 Pero Antic         30   2     41.2%	33%	69.8%	0.9	1.9	2.8	0.9	0.3	0.9	2.3	6.3
12 Elton Brand        16   1.4   46.8%	—	46.2%	1.1	1.9	3	0.5	0.5	0.4	1.5	3.1
13 Mike Muscala       14   1.9   53.1%	25%	85.7%	1.3	1	2.3	0.3	0.3	0.5	0.9	4.2
14 John Jenkins       3    1.7   45.5%	33.3%	100%	—	0.7	0.7	—	0.3	0.3	0.7	4
15 Adreian Payne      3    0.7   28.6%	—	50%	0.3	1	1.3	—	0.3	—	1.3	1.7

Phil has a philosophy which should make it easier for him to target specific players who can excel playing the way he wants to play. Phil has to start with his core and build out from there. The Hawks adding Millsap and Korver to Teague and Horford was a huge cornerstone to this teams success. Seeing how they are structured should give hope to the Knick Fans who are wondering how this can work. We will have a different mix of players with Phil doing the choosing but the principle should be the same. Productive, 2 way, well rounded players who can excel in a team oriented system.

you are forgetting that we already have Melo who is a plan fukker upper

Well I Don't think Melo would necessarily mess up Phil's plan. Anytime Melo played with a legit group they had some success so why should he be a detriment to success here with a good group of players? I'm only interested in seeing if Phil can put together a good core group of 8 players we can depend on to produce. The best rosters that Melo has played with weren't great but those teams played well. The WCF's team in Denver and the 54 win team here in NY weren't great teams but at least gave us an indication of what can happen if you put the right talent around Melo.

This time we need to put a team together that has lasting power as well as being a great fit with each other. Just looking at what they did in Atlanta it makes it much more feasible that we could put together a good core group here as well. It's a good model in terms of the kind of players we should be looking for. Efficient players with good overall skills. Melo is just one player and we have a boatload of minutes to assign to the rest of the rotation.

Melo can play well if surrounded by good players and leaders who he must defer to.

the issue is that he is making too much money and there is a very good chance that he will break down and we will be stuck with another injured cap killer.He is too big to fail. too risky.

There is a good chance any player at any given time could break down. Horford has injury risks too, that's just part of the game. The key is putting enough talent alongside Melo so his usage and minutes can be lowered and he isn't working as hard for shots.

Thats exactly the point. Horford eats up much less of the cap just like the rest of their players.

So, if any of them go down, your money is spread out to other solid players. They can afford this with the way they are constructed.

They can probably lose any player for an extended period of time and not miss a beat.

True, but it just depends on how the team is built. Max players are that way for a reason. Having a bunch of guys worth 10-12 mil can be a good strategy, but utlimately most teams win with guys making max money. But we can still put together a great team with Melo making 30% of the payroll nonetheless, and we must draft well and find diamonds in the rough who we can pay minimum money and get quality role player production.

Anything is possible but he has made it almost impossible.

And, what happens if he gets a serious injury in year 2 or 3? We cannot recover from that. We put too many eggs in his basket and he is not good enough for us to take such a crazy and careless chance.