SwishAndDish13 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TPercy wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Yea, Melo is killing this team. They'd be better...ohhh wait never mind. No matter what this team would stink to the high heavens. Also, the FT conversation is boarderline braindead. Most teams do the same thing in this instance. Plus not like Melo is a bad FT shooter. He has been excellent throughout his career. Say what u want this yr but this FT thread is absurd. It is not uncommon in this league or at the college level for the best player on the team to get the FTs unless there is a substantially better FT shooter on the floor.

calderon??

100% (21 for 21) on the year. and 88 percent for his career vs. 81 for calderon.

I really am curious if Jordan deferred to Kerr on FT's. If he did not then I will concede this point.

I knew somebody would throw the 21 for 21 out there. Less than a FT a game also amazing for him. To your question about Jordan, I looked this up and couldn't really find stats to support it. I personally can't recall Jordan differing remembering back. In end of game situations, I recall them going to Jordan to get fouled most often even with Kerr on the floor. Kobe on the other had went to Sasha who was an assassin from the line. To say that this is a theme or problem seems overblown to me. Fine if people want to critique, but it was in the 2nd quarter of a blowout. People in London paid to see Melo, not Jose Calderone. Melo MADE the FT, so the discussion is irrelevant. It seems to be common at most levels to have your leading scorer shoot in this time frame so long as he is a good FT shooter, which Melo is.

On the topic of selfishness, contrary to this "selfish conversation," in end of game situations with Billups, Melo almost always differed. Billups was an all-time great FT shooter. It is also worth noting that "clutch FT shooting stats" show Melo as an improved shooter in end of game situations. Overall, this FT situation demonstrates nothing IMO. If people want to make a big deal out of it to get excited or whatever, that is fine. Will agree to disagree here, but I think some evidence to support that this is out of the ordinary would be nice.

Calderon is one of the best free throw shooters of all time and also holds the record for the highest pct in a season.

Its not just the technical that Melo shot, its just a small symptom and fits into who he is and an overall selfish attitude. I have pointed out in many threads what I think that he is doing wrong and the many different examples of non teamwork basketball.

This is not just in London, it happened in the states as well. In a meaningless game (especially), don't you think it would have been prudent from him to at least be a gentleman and say "Jose, its yours". Not a chance because that is not who he is.

His selfish shot selection has been widely documented and has tainted his career in a big way.

People can choose to ignore it but only if you force yourself to.

Not really, nothing to be gained by this. Completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Don't see a lot of star players in this league doing things differently either. LeBron, who everybody loves, for example will almost always take these shots in the same situation. He's an average FT shooter. This is really being overblown.

Lebron would not take those shots with Ray Allen on the floor, of course not!

Anyway, the focus should be on Melo's assists. He is a bad and unwilling passer.

Shooting technicals. An entire thread. Unreal.

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Not really, nothing to be gained by this. Completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Don't see a lot of star players in this league doing things differently either. LeBron, who everybody loves, for example will almost always take these shots in the same situation. He's an average FT shooter. This is really being overblown.

Lebron would not take those shots with Ray Allen on the floor, of course not!

Anyway, the focus should be on Melo's assists. He is a bad and unwilling passer.

People aren't looking at FT shooting in a vacuum in the 2nd quarter at the NBA level. Ray Allen is a HOFer. Def carries some weight. Although, I would venture in a game that wasn't very close or important it is safe to say LeBron shot these at one point. Even without Allen, LeBron was never the best FT shooter on the floor. You, may just need to admit this is being blown out of proportion.

The assists is fine. I agree, but this thread is about FT shooting as indicated by the title. He is a bad passer. I do think earlier in the year he demonstrated that he was willing, but he is not a good passer. Could he improve, possibly. You're not going to be able to see if that is the case till next year though. This is one of the worst team's ever. The ball movement, and off the pall player movement are borderline non-existent. Their current brand of basketball makes assists hard to come by regardless of passing ability, I would like to hope we can at least agree there.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Not really, nothing to be gained by this. Completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Don't see a lot of star players in this league doing things differently either. LeBron, who everybody loves, for example will almost always take these shots in the same situation. He's an average FT shooter. This is really being overblown.

Lebron would not take those shots with Ray Allen on the floor, of course not!

Anyway, the focus should be on Melo's assists. He is a bad and unwilling passer.

People aren't looking at FT shooting in a vacuum in the 2nd quarter at the NBA level. Ray Allen is a HOFer. Def carries some weight. Although, I would venture in a game that wasn't very close or important it is safe to say LeBron shot these at one point. Even without Allen, LeBron was never the best FT shooter on the floor. You, may just need to admit this is being blown out of proportion.

The assists is fine. I agree, but this thread is about FT shooting as indicated by the title. He is a bad passer. I do think earlier in the year he demonstrated that he was willing, but he is not a good passer. Could he improve, possibly. You're not going to be able to see if that is the case till next year though. This is one of the worst team's ever. The ball movement, and off the pall player movement are borderline non-existent. Their current brand of basketball makes assists hard to come by regardless of passing ability, I would like to hope we can at least agree there.

I do agree that this team is awful and even when he does pass it, players are bricking shots. That also does not mean that he should stop passing. Play the game right.

I have mentioned that he is passing the ball more this year partly because it is a prerequisite of the triangle. What kills me is how horribly inept he is at passing out of the post.

And, when he is off, he feels that he has to volume shoot himself back into games which is beyond horrible basketball.

He is not going anywhere because we can't really get anything for him at this point so we certainly get to see what he can do for us next year.

Phil hates selfish basketball and I could just imagine how sick and powerless he is over this. Many here can defend Melo quite blindly sometimes. I am curious what the excuse will be once its all documented in Phils next book. "Phil is a deranged idiot! Next??"

Why Melo makes me so mad with his shot selection is because he is so damn gifted and at the same time way too over confident in himself. He has so much to learn (as all the greats have) yet he seems to be so unwilling to change.

For now, many are remaining eerily optimistic about him but that will change within a year if this continues (aside for a few leftovers who refuse to leave their home for fear of being wrong).

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Not really, nothing to be gained by this. Completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Don't see a lot of star players in this league doing things differently either. LeBron, who everybody loves, for example will almost always take these shots in the same situation. He's an average FT shooter. This is really being overblown.

Lebron would not take those shots with Ray Allen on the floor, of course not!

Anyway, the focus should be on Melo's assists. He is a bad and unwilling passer.

People aren't looking at FT shooting in a vacuum in the 2nd quarter at the NBA level. Ray Allen is a HOFer. Def carries some weight. Although, I would venture in a game that wasn't very close or important it is safe to say LeBron shot these at one point. Even without Allen, LeBron was never the best FT shooter on the floor. You, may just need to admit this is being blown out of proportion.

The assists is fine. I agree, but this thread is about FT shooting as indicated by the title. He is a bad passer. I do think earlier in the year he demonstrated that he was willing, but he is not a good passer. Could he improve, possibly. You're not going to be able to see if that is the case till next year though. This is one of the worst team's ever. The ball movement, and off the pall player movement are borderline non-existent. Their current brand of basketball makes assists hard to come by regardless of passing ability, I would like to hope we can at least agree there.

I do agree that this team is awful and even when he does pass it, players are bricking shots. That also does not mean that he should stop passing. Play the game right.

I have mentioned that he is passing the ball more this year partly because it is a prerequisite of the triangle. What kills me is how horribly inept he is at passing out of the post.

And, when he is off, he feels that he has to volume shoot himself back into games which is beyond horrible basketball.

He is not going anywhere because we can't really get anything for him at this point so we certainly get to see what he can do for us next year.

Phil hates selfish basketball and I could just imagine how sick and powerless he is over this. Many here can defend Melo quite blindly sometimes. I am curious what the excuse will be once its all documented in Phils next book. "Phil is a deranged idiot! Next??"

Why Melo makes me so mad with his shot selection is because he is so damn gifted and at the same time way too over confident in himself. He has so much to learn (as all the greats have) yet he seems to be so unwilling to change.

For now, many are remaining eerily optimistic about him but that will change within a year if this continues (aside for a few leftovers who refuse to leave their home for fear of being wrong).

I was more specifically referring to in a lot of instances players not making themselves available, moving without the ball, not looking for the ball. It's not just a Melo issue, it is a team issue. He absolutely needs to improve on his passing for sure, but the players off the ball need to play the game the right way too. Plenty of blame to be passed around here. It's not a 1 man issue, as noted by the ball movement possibly being worse without Melo in the lineup.

The Phil stuff I think is more of a personal opinion from you. Kobe (clearly a better player) is well documented as a complete lunatic and "selfish player." However, Phil had no problem coaching him, and even looked to do so during their 2nd run together.

Well I think that its starts with Melo. When you have a guy with such a high USG rate and the ball sticks. Everyone else suffers and frustration sets in.

Early in the season, prigs leading the league in 3%, he is wide open in the corner of a Melo double team and Melo just looks him off and takes a contested jumper against two defenders. That happens(ed) all the time and can deflate players.

When Kobe wants to turn it on and be unselfish, he can do it at will regardless of how bad the team is. If he wants to make them better, he can.

Last night he had 17 assists in 32 minutes. It was beautiful basketball. I would love to see that more from him and I would love to see that just once from Melo. Kobe was making moves with the intention to pass and get his teammates involved. Not just making safety valve passes.

Do you see Melo drive to the hoop intending to draw the double team so that he can kick it out for the open shot as a first option? Unfortunately not.

Last night Kobe made Jordan Hill look like a star. You need to enable your teammates and give them confidence in themselves. Thats what superstars (should) do.

Melo can do this. He just would rather shoot. That to me is extremely frustrating.

Maybe I expected too much from him and he is really not (mentally) capable of doing this? Maybe ... I have been wrong many times and this may be one of them.

I will still hold out a touch of confidence for next season. Phil has a lot of work to do, lets see him earn some of that 60 million.

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, if the pantyknot FT point fails, focus on Melo's assists! If that fails because he's playing with the talent level that only rivals the septic sludge we witness daily on the UK, then we can focus on his shot selection! If that fails because he's not shooting 30 shots to get 25 points anymore, than we can focus on his ungentlemanlyness, which will bring us right back to mreinman's original panty knot!

Shooting technicals. An entire thread. Unreal.

LOL - I have been quite honest and fair in my Melo assessment.

I would love to see your defense ... "great! now we are going to bitch about Melo shooting half court hooks? Please! Why shouldn't he shoot half court hooks?"

JROD, you are a very amusing and witty poster but rarely do you give honest, unbiased input. why not? What do you like, and what do you not like? Its ok to state both, no?

Actually I don't understand half of what he writes, but its good natured stuff! He ribs me with funny stuff sometimes.

You on the other hand kid of lost it on a thursday afternoon better spent in a dentist chair or knitting as sweater from the neighborhood belly button lint drive for the homeless!!!

Your choice.

What is melo to Nalod:

A shooter. Give him the ball and he shoots. He is in London to entertain. He will be in the allstar game to entertain the home crowd. Phuch Reggie Miller and his pompus ass. If Melo sat he'd be called selfish as well. At 5-36 nobody is winning any PR war!

Do I want to see Melo do more off the ball? Buy into the Triangle? Of course. IM sure he looks around and every year knicks changing the roster. I think we lead the league with 89 players passing thru but I can't remember in what time frame. Coaches, GM's and players come and go with great frequency.

I will hold Melo more accoutnable when we have a roster we can say is improved. I recall Jordan early struggles with the Triangle because he did not trust his mates to hit their shots. Please, Im not comparing Melo to Jordan but Jordan's bulls when Phil took over was in the Conf finals and could not get to the next level. This team is a far more pathetic one. Melo is no super hero but a max player has a mentality to try to do it themselves at times. This is what has been asked of him the last few years.

So if a foul shot takes you to the brink, and we all have pain threashold with our team, I suggest you just take a step back and look at the sum of the parts than each one. Its pretty dismal and has been for some time. Kudos to Woodson for keeping it together as he did, but PHISH (Phil and FIsh) wanted to strip it down and see what was there, then put it in their Triangle food processor and we all see the sludge as it really is.

My take is Melo will be a shooter but not the Alpha as he is now. Either he shares it or falls back a level.

The money, well seems like half the league is over paid. Enjoy what you can.

mreinman wrote:

misterearl wrote:Not Really gunsnewing

gunsnewing wrote:Most selfish primadonna prick I've ever seen in sports and in general

Sean Hannity. Alex Rodriguez. George Zimmerman. Milan Lucic. Tony Stewart. Lance Armstrong. Ben Roethlisberger. Rush Limbaugh. Aaron Hernandez.

Ray Rice, Bill Cosby, The Jews ...

Reinman you ****ing racist. Name the time and place I will **** you up you *******!

This had nothing to do with your love of Jose's free throw shooting form! Misdirection! Justification of your Melohate!

BigRed, this is not sarcasm! Everyone knows mreinman is Hebrew code for JDL!

jrodmc wrote:So now the truth comes out. You're a Jewish supremacist!
Melo the ball hog scored 25 more points than your Krav Maga Man Stat!

This had nothing to do with your love of Jose's free throw shooting form! Misdirection! Justification of your Melohate!

BigRed, this is not sarcasm! Everyone knows mreinman is Hebrew code for JDL!

Amare is a fugazee. We never accepted him into our minyans. He just wanted to capitalize on his popularity in NY.

Also, jews are short and slow but we play defense.