mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

Splat wrote:The argumentation skills on this forum are largely nonexistent. So many lack the basic intellectual skills to distinguish terminology in order to have a debate.

A prime fallacy demonstrated here over and over again showing an utter lack of self-awareness is attacking criticism as emotionalism and missing the irony of making such an emotional response. It is not debating.

If I want to watch hamsters in a cage gnawing on their knuckles, I can go to a pet store for that.

The real sourpusses are all of these incompetent debaters. They rarely come back with counter-arguments, but lots of default loyalties to large corporations over dissenting viewpoints. I've seen the brainwashed masses and they can be found on sports forums.

The world has not advanced much. Medieval minds pickled in digital ether is mostly what I see here.

Hey I'm bringing my Bass guitar over, you and DK stay put in the garage

We have to make sure everything is down pat we're the next biggest act for AGT

Melol!

foosballnick wrote:

Splat wrote:The argumentation skills on this forum are largely nonexistent. So many lack the basic intellectual skills to distinguish terminology in order to have a debate.

A prime fallacy demonstrated here over and over again showing an utter lack of self-awareness is attacking criticism as emotionalism and missing the irony of making such an emotional response. It is not debating.

If I want to watch hamsters in a cage gnawing on their knuckles, I can go to a pet store for that.

The real sourpusses are all of these incompetent debaters. They rarely come back with counter-arguments, but lots of default loyalties to large corporations over dissenting viewpoints. I've seen the brainwashed masses and they can be found on sports forums.

The world has not advanced much. Medieval minds pickled in digital ether is mostly what I see here.

The problem with your statements (see below) is that you are offering up subjective opinions as if they are facts. For instance, please provide examples of how any of what you stated below is measurable. Most of us with "Intelligence" are able to see right through this type of post as relatively meaningless propaganda. You appear to be trying too hard to "debate" other posters (who do not agree with your opinion)......... off this board. No one cares if you are a "Good Debater" or not. Most here are Knick fans and here to read about and discuss the Knicks. You seem to have many bad things to say about this board and other posters....so why stay if just to complain about it?

Splat wrote:
Just like my opinions on Melo were once on the fringe and are now becoming a consensus, I guarantee you in the future most fans will agree that Phil:
1) cashed in on his reputation;
2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;
3) thought his chit doesn't stink;
4) was living in the past;
5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and
6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.
Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.
I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.
None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

When a guy with a new screen name appears and spews massive amounts of the stuff you quoted above on a daily basis its because he was doing it somewhere else, and now he cant.

I mean the guy patted himself on the back and said his MElo opinions were once fringe but have become mainstream. Delusion knows no bounds.

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

I don't necessarily agree that its all on phil.

I believe that Phil came knowing that resigning Melo was a prerequisite.

However, he was a dope for taking melo seriously when Melo said that he will help out the team with his contract. For Melo and his posse and this goes for many of these guys and their idiot handlers, its all about respect and chess moves.

Melo in the end said fu to phil and phil was fukked. The relationship has probably not been good since and therefore Phil has probably let Melo know how he feels and Melo said, fu again, I am going rogue.

Phil thought that he could control the outcome and he get check meloted.

I do think that Phil tries to trade his this off season but contrary to many other trade rape posts, I don't think that he has much/any value at that ridiculous contract.

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

I don't necessarily agree that its all on phil.

I believe that Phil came knowing that resigning Melo was a prerequisite.

However, he was a dope for taking melo seriously when Melo said that he will help out the team with his contract. For Melo and his posse and this goes for many of these guys and their idiot handlers, its all about respect and chess moves.

Melo in the end said fu to phil and phil was fukked. The relationship has probably not been good since and therefore Phil has probably let Melo know how he feels and Melo said, fu again, I am going rogue.

Phil thought that he could control the outcome and he get check meloted.

I do think that Phil tries to trade his this off season but contrary to many other trade rape posts, I don't think that he has much/any value at that ridiculous contract.

That is a pretty fundamental agreement. Once Melo got paid, he did what he wanted to do.

If Phil didn't have the intel to know Melo is completely unmanageable, then how can he be taken seriously if he lacked that basic insight into Melo's true nature? George Karl indicated all of these things years ago.

And if Phil did know all this and signed him anyway, how can he be taken seriously either? That is why I used the word cynicism, because if he knew this and signed him, then Phil gave priority to getting his $60M, not the well being of the team.

If he knew this and he knew it would never work with Melo and those were Dolan's terms, then he could have turned down the job because it compromised his values. But according to some, you don't turn down $60M even if it means selling your soul.

So, either Phil's vanity made him stupid and he signed Melo with the hubris of thinking he'd mold him into his own image,

or

Phil was cynical in taking a job where he was immediately compromised.

That makes signing Melo Phil's responsibility either way. It can also be considered Dolan's too, but Phil is the front man and he song and danced his way into this gig so he is accountable.

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Splat wrote:You think Fisher, at the end of his playing career, was going to say no to $25M? I mean so many say the thing about Melo, I assume they'd say the same about Fish.

Just like the Knicks were stupid to give Melo his massive, no-trade contract, Phil (and Dolan) were also stupid to give a five year deal to a guy who had never coached before. I don't know the terms of Kidd's deal with the Nets, but it wasn't an albatross like Fisher's deal.

So what was that deal all about?

Phil.

It all points back to Phil.

Phil wanted his own group of buddies. Whether they were the best choices or not. Just loyalists. Just like Dolan.

It is a microcosm of Dolanism.

That's why the Fisher situation is a mess. Not only has he never coached a 4th grade basketball game, but he's in Phil's pocket.

How can anyone slobber over Phil with the way he has proceeded? Only the usual holdout suckers are mooning over Phil's zen BS. It's just another joke in a long line of Knicks jokes.

We're a bad team but the subplots you made up are garbage

dont argue with the banned band. Whats the upside?

Definitely isn't any upside.

I need a beer bro. I need a uk hangout

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

I don't necessarily agree that its all on phil.

I believe that Phil came knowing that resigning Melo was a prerequisite.

However, he was a dope for taking melo seriously when Melo said that he will help out the team with his contract. For Melo and his posse and this goes for many of these guys and their idiot handlers, its all about respect and chess moves.

Melo in the end said fu to phil and phil was fukked. The relationship has probably not been good since and therefore Phil has probably let Melo know how he feels and Melo said, fu again, I am going rogue.

Phil thought that he could control the outcome and he get check meloted.

I do think that Phil tries to trade his this off season but contrary to many other trade rape posts, I don't think that he has much/any value at that ridiculous contract.

That is a pretty fundamental agreement. Once Melo got paid, he did what he wanted to do.

If Phil didn't have the intel to know Melo is completely unmanageable, then how can he be taken seriously if he lacked that basic insight into Melo's true nature? George Karl indicated all of these things years ago.

And if Phil did know all this and signed him anyway, how can he be taken seriously either? That is why I used the word cynicism, because if he knew this and signed him, then Phil gave priority to getting his $60M, not the well being of the team.

If he knew this and he knew it would never work with Melo and those were Dolan's terms, then he could have turned down the job because it compromised his values. But according to some, you don't turn down $60M even if it means selling your soul.

So, either Phil's vanity made him stupid and he signed Melo with the hubris of thinking he'd mold him into his own image,

or

Phil was cynical in taking a job where he was immediately compromised.

That makes signing Melo Phil's responsibility either way. It can also be considered Dolan's too, but Phil is the front man and he song and danced his way into this gig so he is accountable.

The only thing that Phil could have done was not take the job. MELO WAS STAYING!

Phil may have overestimated himself in thinking that:

a) he can convince Melo to change his game
b) he could convince (or take Melo at his word) that he would take less

b) - was a complete fail
a) - not looking good at all though I will make a final judgement at the end of next season

So with Jax being wrong about the above, his only was to not take the job.

NO OTHER OPTIONS.

I think that he let himself PARTLY be fooled.

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

They've defeated you if this is your course

But I understand your contributions will always

Be a framework to logical thinking

Make sure you stay put

I'm headed to the garage to rock out with you and DK

No defeat. I've said what I want to say. I consider leaving a victory for prioritizing more meaningful activities over posting here. This is pretty trivial stuff in the scheme of things and I really have better things to do. Take care

Splat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

They've defeated you if this is your course

But I understand your contributions will always

Be a framework to logical thinking

Make sure you stay put

I'm headed to the garage to rock out with you and DK

No defeat. I've said what I want to say. I consider leaving a victory for prioritizing more meaningful activities over posting here. This is pretty trivial stuff in the scheme of things and I really have better things to do. Take care

There is always a chance anything can happen

Although things look pretty bleak, not everyone is an ignoramus on this board

There are some developing under currents always worth keeping a pulse on

Much can be revealed by probing external sources and bringing them forth here

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

They've defeated you if this is your course

But I understand your contributions will always

Be a framework to logical thinking

Make sure you stay put

I'm headed to the garage to rock out with you and DK

No defeat. I've said what I want to say. I consider leaving a victory for prioritizing more meaningful activities over posting here. This is pretty trivial stuff in the scheme of things and I really have better things to do. Take care

There is always a chance anything can happen

Although things look pretty bleak, not everyone is an ignoramus on this board

There are some developing under currents always worth keeping a pulse on

Much can be revealed by probing external sources and bringing them forth here

You do that then. As I said, I've got more important things to do. This has turned into a time suck I can no longer afford to accommodate.