nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. According to you? Jim Dolan may think there is still a magic pill and sign more expensive stiffs. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. If that is the case what we are doing with Carmelo Anthony? Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. So what was $124M spent on? Salad dressing? IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. So $124M didn't buy us that "VERY RARE TOP TALENT"? So now we're going to find one in the desk drawer and by winning the lottery? You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. I thought we paid $124M for our franchise player? It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Wake up kiddo! Phil is adrift and rudderless. Pay attention!!!! (extra exclamation points just for you) Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge. You didn't just say that did you? Talking about desperation. Are you sure you're not a PR man? Phil's interest in wisdom? You don't know what you are talking about. Wisdom is manifested, not extrapolated. Phil's ego games don't mean jack now.

You're still farting platitudes buddy

Everything you're pumping is garbage. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Keep telling yourself you're going to build a scaffold of gold around the Leaning Tower of Melo. Continuing to lie to yourself like you do will turn you into a newt. Or a shrubbery.

Did you even read what I wrote to you in the carmarshmello thread? You're embarrassing the crap out of yourself.

You want to be a superfan? Team up with Briggs and organize petitions and public protests and get Melo off this team. Or you can keep posting clueless nonsense. No, I don't want to organize anything. You're the superfan.

gunsnewing wrote:Phil should be grooming a young GM. Specially someone who understands the landscape of today's nba and the metrics.

Otherwise it's going to be Walsh resigning and the incompet taking over all over again. Which would be years wasted AGAIN

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Phil should be grooming a young GM. Specially someone who understands the landscape of today's nba and the metrics.

Otherwise it's going to be Walsh resigning and the incompet taking over all over again. Which would be years wasted AGAIN

I think Grunwald was more competent than Walsh. There isn't much that was done right when Walsh was in NY in my opinion.

Grunwald made the bargs move. He can never recover from that.

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Phil should be grooming a young GM. Specially someone who understands the landscape of today's nba and the metrics.

Otherwise it's going to be Walsh resigning and the incompet taking over all over again. Which would be years wasted AGAIN

I think Grunwald was more competent than Walsh. There isn't much that was done right when Walsh was in NY in my opinion.

well according to you he was responsible for the melo trade in 2011.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.

I hope you are right though seeing this force fitting of an archaic triangle and our defensive schemes to clog the paint and have our opponents raining threes on us, I am not so confident.

Phil is going to be looking for more 2 way players. This is his stated goal and his history and belief system. He talks with excitement about defensive players. I must admit a bit of shock that there are so many in the media and among fans that doubt Phil's understanding of what it takes to win and how a great team is built. I think it's crazy to assume he doesn't know exactly what it takes to win and how his teams were built in the past. More than most coaches Phil talks at length about deep aspects of the game and team building.

SAN ANTONIO — Spurs president R.C. Buford, considered the preeminent executive in the NBA, says Phil Jackson doesn’t need his advice as he plows through a new job.

Buford recently was named 2014 Executive of the Year, and his Spurs are three wins a way from their sixth Finals berth since 1999.
“Phil knows how to build teams,’’ Buford told The Post at AT&T Center Monday night. “He’ll be terrific. We’re are all chasing what he built and developed. I don’t think he needs anyone’s help.’’

“Team building is team building,’’ Buford said. “He’s obviously had a big influence in several different circumstances that have been successful. There’s all kinds of limitations in building a team and he’s faced with some with their current situation, but I don’t know if there’s been a finer team builder. I don’t know how you can predict how successful he would be, but I wouldn’t bet against his credentials.’’

This article is of interest because it underscores Phil's involvement with the make up of his teams. One thing of note with his past teams is the fact that he really hasn't gone after having rookies on those teams that were ready to win. Now he's in a different situation so we'll see some new things from Phil due to the circumstances.

Jackson likely isn’t going to be in a bunch of small colleges watching games. Which guys like Riley and Bird and West have rarely done, anyway, and somehow succeeded as well. They are CEO’s directing organizations. But they also understand well what leads to success.

In basketball, Jackson endorses the elements of defense and unselfish, team oriented play. They are the rudimentary foundations of success in all sports. His means may be different, but his philosophies are the same.

When Jackson was Bulls coach he lobbied constantly for the Bulls to trade Charles Oakley for Bill Cartwright. General manager Jerry Krause was much against it because he’d drafted Oakley. Jordan was bitterly opposed because Oakley was his physical protector against the cheap shot Detroit tactics and Oakley was his closest friend. But with Doug Collins’ support the Bulls made the trade — Krause deserves the credit for doing so as he didn’t have to as the final voice — and Jordan would later admit he didn’t know if the Bulls could have won without Cartwright to hold off the top East centers then, like Patrick Ewing, Brad Daugherty, James Edwards and Robert Parish.

In the Bulls’ second threepeat, it was Jackson who lobbied everyone for Dennis Rodman. Krause had said Rodman should never be a Bull. But Jackson had persuaded everyone the need to, as he then said, “fetch the ball” was vital to success.

Jackson’s philosophies were the same as everyone else’s. There are no secret formulas. It’s hiring the personnel to do so and knowing who that is. Jackson didn’t always have Shaq. His three-headed Bulls’ monsters were centers basically not starting anywhere else. His perimeter guys in Los Angeles also were role players, like Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Brian Shaw. The point was to bring in players who could fill out a team with certain skills. It’s not just using them as a coach; Jackson always recommended the kinds of players he’d like. If he didn’t, you’d have seen a lot more rookies on those teams.

Sure, the Bulls had Jordan and Scottie Pippen, and the Lakers had Kobe and Shaq and then Kobe and Pau. But his teams were always able to add role players who were crucial to success in big moments. And Jackson was involved in those processes. Jackson never much wanted rookies on his rosters, and he never had them. Anyone who knows team executives knows they love draft picks. But those title teams rarely had them. It’s another reason Jackson is not back in Los Angeles. It’s not just Jim Buss. Mitch Kupchak also knows Jackson’s abilities with meshing talent. Kupchak would be without a job as well.

But New York needs Phil more than the Lakers do.

You could put your abundant energy to good use, but you'll forever be putting lipsticks on pigs. It makes you happy and maybe that's all that matters, not reality or actually doing something constructive to change things. If you got a handle on the situation, you'd make a good movement leader. That was my last hope for you. It is asking for too much to expect you to be a clear thinking individual. Good luck to you

Splat wrote:Nix, you're completely lost in the wilderness. I tried to break through your narcotic haze, but you're on a mission to nowhere and nobody can reason with you. Now you're talking about the majesty of Phil like a crazy old lady talks about her menagerie of cats.

You could put your abundant energy to good use, but you'll forever be putting lipsticks on pigs. It makes you happy and maybe that's all that matters, not reality or actually doing something constructive to change things. If you got a handle on the situation, you'd make a good movement leader. That was my last hope for you. It is asking for too much to expect you to be a clear thinking individual. Good luck to you

Nothing you've said has any meaning except to you. You're going on and on but not making any sense. We don't need more "lipstick on pigs" metaphors. Phil has legit experience being involved in building teams and nothing you and anyone else says will change this fact. It's not like he's just been some bystander all of these years. Phil has been involved and other execs like Buford know this to be true. Only dumb ass media guys and former players and coaches who don't like Phil are dumb enough to doubt his abilities.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.

Hmmm. I guess you just figured out a way to save 28 NBA teams millions of dollars!
(The magnificent Magic and Bobcats are the only teams without metrics departments now)
If everything the metrics could tell us was so obvious, people would have realized this wasn't a .600+ team immediately. And the Calderon trade would have never happened. And Melo wouldn't have the largest basketball contract on the planet.
There's no such thing as "top talent" that you don't need the metrics for. The metrics will make it clearer than the eyeball test as to which "top talent" (like Melo) is just being overrated and which (like Harden when he was an FA) is being overlooked.

Look it's a part of the overall process and i'm not saying it doesn't have value. If you have a player who is clearly a 2 way player with a high IQ, who excels in key areas and game situations, you don't need a damn chart to figure out that he's a great player. Where the hell were you and the metrics guys when teams were being built into all time great teams before any serious consideration of metrics. How many championships were built on metrics verses the old fashioned way? If you could break it down for us what percentage of the credit for a teams success is based on metrics i'd love to see that info. It's a tool but let's not overstate it's value either.

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Splat wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Splat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This flush out is all Dolan. This is 15 years of his "input". Dolan hired Phil Jackson who has zero GM experience for more money than the 3 best GMs make combined. Did anyone read that Kyle Lowry piece just put out? Lowry was traded to the Knicks---whether it was Dolan or Phil behind the scenes--they negated a trade for the best player we have any chance at getting unless we get pick 1 for the next 18 months at a minimum. It could get WORSE here it could get real bad. We DO NOT have a pick next year and there is a possibility of the "bust" scenario where we don't do well in the draft and get somewhat shut out in FA. I'm sure there will be a panic mode where we do offer a player a max just to placate the fans--to get something new in here and trade the pick for any exsisting proven player(even if its eats massive cap) If we do the franchise is likely done for 5-7 years. Because the Knicks and their ownership have not put a standard of "restrictive picks" we left ourselves open to disaster--this year its all PURE luck (my God how is this pick not somehow not swapped to a team who has the rights to flip) a device the Knicks concocted to circumvent the two year draft rule(I think it was isiah Thomas) The Knicks are basically a crooked scam organization with Dolan running things the only way he will do it by his last words. So the consumer is fcked by this the fan is fkced by this--and that is that.

Welcome! You have been assimilated into the Borg.

hell is freezing over. fishmike and jrod have headed for the hills. 5-30 is apparently a critical mass point.

They are huddled in a Klondike hut making soup from Melo jerseys ala Chaplin.

and the hats!!!! the hat bands make for a great papardelle pasta.

You Rang!

Isaac Love Boat Melo[GrantLand referred to him as Gilligan...lol]

I had no idea Grantland and USA Today already did this in July and December

But clever minds think alike

Boy do they have some hilarious ones themselves

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/look-at-all-these-photos-of-carmelo-anthony-wearing-hats/

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/the-8-most-ridiculous-hats-carmelo-anthony-has-ever-worn

What A Complete Joke Paraody Of Himself

LOL!!

Hello This is F5 Speaking How May I Help You

Oh I See You're inquiring of Fools in Foolish Attire

Here I Present You With

Monopoly Melo Courtesy Grantland.com

He has a cherry Clan Following

So as he takes the

They'll say to those living the humble life

PAST GO AND GET CHO MONEY MELO!!!!!

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO it doesn't matter how fast Phil can put a contender together. Phil has to make sure that he finds the type of core talent that can be built upon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or some metrics guy to figure out who the top talents are. Initially Phil has to improve the top talent on the team. IMO this is what Phil has to focus on this summer. After you have your very rare top talent then the metrics stuff has more real value. You don't need metrics to figure out that Tim Duncan is a franchise talent. It's the role players you look to find after that where you need as much insight as possible to find the right players. I feel that Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge.

You do need some metrics in play

Take for instance J.R. Smith is more talented

Than say 85% of the players in this league

But metrics will tell how much of a Devil he is in misusing abusing the talent

How much he kills on court team chemistry

Metric analytics will get you Draymond Green instead of J.R. Smith

It will get you Paul Gasol instead of Amar'e Stoudemire

Conversely it can get you into deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep du-du

Like getting Jose Calderon instead of Andre Miller

I'm not opposed to metrics at all. I never said it's of no value. It's funny how ready guys are to jump on anything I say. Even if I write that I think "Phil will use every means necessary to find the best fits for this team. Just going by his past interest in wisdom and new ways of looking at things, it seems to me that Phil would have high interest in Metrics and anything else that can give him an edge." It's getting so that it doesn't matter what I write.

All i'm saying is that it's one tool but it's not everything in terms of building a team. It won't take much for Phil to add metrics to his process, but what he knows and understands about the game is of high value and just as much of a key factor for this team and how he's going to build it. His practical experience on how teams are built, how players mesh and are developed will matter even more IMO.

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:Maybe the question is also why do so many have so little faith?
5-30 sucks. Few saw this coming.
Change of culture is a lot of things. When you go to boot camp in the military they break you down, then put you back together.
Faith is defined as "an unsubstantiated belief". No basis historically to say phil as an exec will transform the team because he has never done it. At the same time one can say that about a lot of GM's who we could have hired. Masai in Toronto had assets and has picks.

The contrarian side of thinks a man with different thinking might succeed instead of following a similar matrix. If this is the case in NY, then its a risk. To follow the media's short sighted anger technique and supplant it as an original thought makes some of you look really bandwagon jumpers who are piling on the 5-30 hate feast.

I have no basis but faith in Phil. Zen philosophy when applied to business is actually a very effective tool. it takes out wishful thinking and the emotional baggage of what has already transpired.

Really, if there is a change in policy and cultural change then it really does not matter what has transpired previously. If Dolan is truly out of the decision process then one can say this will effect the future.

Winning now is not possible. Tickets might be sold and if one was gullible, its to think Phil would have effected great change right away. True there is a starphuch aspect to his hiring. This sells tickets.

Was there another way? Always. IN the face of a failure the logical conclusion is "well anything would have been better than 5-30!"

Effective cultural change? 35 games to conclude this? It takes years. No patience in the Mecca.

Good post.

really? this post is like a bad singer on auto-tune. not to mention unintelligible. maybe you can translate what is being said here.