TripleThreat wrote:

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:I've seen players turn their backs on Melo when he was in Denver and now it's happening on the Knicks.
Body language tells it all. I think that his teammates generally can't stand him.
I just don't see any good players wanting to come to NY to play with him.

His feud with Tyson Chandler surely doesn't help. For whatever positives or negatives people see with Chandler, he did play with Team USA and bonded with a lot of those elite guys. Making enemies with Chandler isn't going to endear him to the circles close to Chandler ( the Dallas connection, the Team USA connection, the Chris Paul/David West connection)

Driving out D'Antoni won't help either. Pringles has his faults but again, he was associated with Team USA and also is generally well liked as a players coach. And he's respected in the international basketball community.

Railroading Lin doesn't seem like a great move for Melo. Lin is generally well received and liked by his coaches and team mates ( well besides Melo and the puppet Woodson) Eric Musselman said in the D league, since Lin was a Warrior, he would get first class plane tickets and Lin would trade them for coach seats with other D league players who were struggling to get by and not affiliated with a pro team at the time. This was before Linsanity. I remember a press conference when Lin said, if you want to give me credit for wins when they are team wins, you should lay this loss on me, on my shoulders, on my back. Would Melo ever say that?

Melo just seems to have a problem with players and coaches who can help or did help or would have helped the Knicks. How does a team function that way?

As far as Tyson, he even tried to recruit Melo to Dallas. I don't know where that "feud" talk is coming from.

He absolutely got rid of D'antoni though. No arguments there and not really a good look for Melo.

TeamBall wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:I've seen players turn their backs on Melo when he was in Denver and now it's happening on the Knicks.
Body language tells it all. I think that his teammates generally can't stand him.
I just don't see any good players wanting to come to NY to play with him.

His feud with Tyson Chandler surely doesn't help. For whatever positives or negatives people see with Chandler, he did play with Team USA and bonded with a lot of those elite guys. Making enemies with Chandler isn't going to endear him to the circles close to Chandler ( the Dallas connection, the Team USA connection, the Chris Paul/David West connection)

Driving out D'Antoni won't help either. Pringles has his faults but again, he was associated with Team USA and also is generally well liked as a players coach. And he's respected in the international basketball community.

Railroading Lin doesn't seem like a great move for Melo. Lin is generally well received and liked by his coaches and team mates ( well besides Melo and the puppet Woodson) Eric Musselman said in the D league, since Lin was a Warrior, he would get first class plane tickets and Lin would trade them for coach seats with other D league players who were struggling to get by and not affiliated with a pro team at the time. This was before Linsanity. I remember a press conference when Lin said, if you want to give me credit for wins when they are team wins, you should lay this loss on me, on my shoulders, on my back. Would Melo ever say that?

Melo just seems to have a problem with players and coaches who can help or did help or would have helped the Knicks. How does a team function that way?

God you are really stuck on this melo vs lin thing. If I post pictures of all the food drives/charities Melo participated in, some people's accounts fo how nice he is, and then top it off with that quote he had about how he doesn't want to have his son moving constantly to show that he thought about his family during free agency, is that going to make him a saint like Lin? You already have a high opinion of Lin and a low opinion of Melo. That's all it is.

As far as Tyson, he even tried to recruit Melo to Dallas. I don't know where that "feud" talk is coming from.

He absolutely got rid of D'antoni though. No arguments there and not really a good look for Melo.

Splat wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:I've seen players turn their backs on Melo when he was in Denver and now it's happening on the Knicks.
Body language tells it all. I think that his teammates generally can't stand him.
I just don't see any good players wanting to come to NY to play with him.

His feud with Tyson Chandler surely doesn't help. For whatever positives or negatives people see with Chandler, he did play with Team USA and bonded with a lot of those elite guys. Making enemies with Chandler isn't going to endear him to the circles close to Chandler ( the Dallas connection, the Team USA connection, the Chris Paul/David West connection)

Driving out D'Antoni won't help either. Pringles has his faults but again, he was associated with Team USA and also is generally well liked as a players coach. And he's respected in the international basketball community.

Railroading Lin doesn't seem like a great move for Melo. Lin is generally well received and liked by his coaches and team mates ( well besides Melo and the puppet Woodson) Eric Musselman said in the D league, since Lin was a Warrior, he would get first class plane tickets and Lin would trade them for coach seats with other D league players who were struggling to get by and not affiliated with a pro team at the time. This was before Linsanity. I remember a press conference when Lin said, if you want to give me credit for wins when they are team wins, you should lay this loss on me, on my shoulders, on my back. Would Melo ever say that?

Melo just seems to have a problem with players and coaches who can help or did help or would have helped the Knicks. How does a team function that way?

God you are really stuck on this melo vs lin thing. If I post pictures of all the food drives/charities Melo participated in, some people's accounts fo how nice he is, and then top it off with that quote he had about how he doesn't want to have his son moving constantly to show that he thought about his family during free agency, is that going to make him a saint like Lin? You already have a high opinion of Lin and a low opinion of Melo. That's all it is.

As far as Tyson, he even tried to recruit Melo to Dallas. I don't know where that "feud" talk is coming from.

He absolutely got rid of D'antoni though. No arguments there and not really a good look for Melo.

The basic answer to your first question is Melo publicly mocked Lin's contract negotiations while they were in progress. It doesn't get any more clear than that.

Splat wrote:

TeamBall wrote:
Yes I absolutely thought that was messed up on Melo's part. Not good at all. Had triple said that, I wouldn't have had any problems.

I don't know, we can all get pretty contentious about this stuff. But if you knew that, do you need to challenge them on their assumption that Melo wanted Lin out? I mean you knew the context, its not like we all have to re-explain everything everytime. Right?

Anyway, there are some pretty factual things and then there are assumptions regarding Melo's ability to get along with others. At this point, I would find it hard to take someone seriously if they claimed Melo doesn't have these issues.

It certainly is not about comparing personalities, i.e. Lin vs. Melo. Melo is not a WWE villain in demeanor. That stuff is not terribly relevant and if someone wants to say you can't judge a book by its cover, not only are they somewhat correct, but it goes both ways. You can no more assert what makes him tick by whether he seems pleasant or not any more than you can dismiss it. That is a fairly subjective thing.

What is more substantive are historically known facts about Melo. There are plenty (if someone asks me to list them I'll just assume they are lazy and want me to injure my fingers typing).

His ability to get along with players and coaches is not some random thing used to character assassinate Melo by haterz. Not saying you were saying that to Triple. But it is said here all the time. And that's lame, because it is at the core of the issues whirling around Melo. If he can't get along and can't lead, he's basically an expensive pea shooter, not a foundational player and that is a problem.

I don't know, we can all get pretty contentious about this stuff. But if you knew that, do you need to challenge them on their assumption that Melo wanted Lin out? I mean you knew the context, its not like we all have to re-explain everything everytime. Right?

Anyway, there are some pretty factual things and then there are assumptions regarding Melo's ability to get along with others. At this point, I would find it hard to take someone seriously if they claimed Melo doesn't have these issues.

It certainly is not about comparing personalities, i.e. Lin vs. Melo. Melo is not a WWE villain in demeanor. That stuff is not terribly relevant and if someone wants to say you can't judge a book by its cover, not only are they somewhat correct, but it goes both ways. You can no more assert what makes him tick by whether he seems pleasant or not any more than you can dismiss it. That is a fairly subjective thing.

His ability to get along with players and coaches is not some random thing used to character assassinate Melo by haterz. Not saying you were saying that to Triple. But it is said here all the time. And that's lame, because it is at the core of the issues whirling around Melo. If he can't get along and can't lead, he's basically an expensive pea shooter, not a foundational player and that is a problem.

Splat wrote:

Has anyone been able to say these positive things about Melo? Why not? Only objections to the criticisms. That is pretty telling IMO.

He has a phat ass. Wait is that positive?

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:Tyson had issues. What he publicly stated can more directly be pinned on his distaste for Woodson's coaching strategies. But he also pretty much slammed his teammates as a whole without naming names. It was probably easy for some to assume that includes Melo being he is the primary focus of the ballclub. But it does involve conjecture.

I do believe Tyson was tired of Melo and glad to get away from him, but it is an assumption, not a definitive assertion. I don't really care at this point TBH.

My baseline assumption after five years is pretty firm that Melo is not a highly co-operative, unity building, team oriented individual.

What I do find funny is people sometimes protest such a notion, but they NEVER assert the opposite. I never hear about how great a team ball player and collaborator is. Only protests. That gets kind of silly after a while when there is only contrariness, but no assertions to counter the objections.

Has anyone been able to say these positive things about Melo? Why not? Only objections to the criticisms. That is pretty telling IMO.

A friend of mine is good friends with and has known Jason Kidd since he was a freshman in High school. He has told me that Kidd loves Melo, and enjoyed playing with him. That is the only first hand source that I have. Are there any first hand sources for your assumption or what you believe?

Your reference is a second-hand source in any case. A first hand source would be you knowing Melo personally.

No, I do not have a first or second hand source.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:Tyson had issues. What he publicly stated can more directly be pinned on his distaste for Woodson's coaching strategies. But he also pretty much slammed his teammates as a whole without naming names. It was probably easy for some to assume that includes Melo being he is the primary focus of the ballclub. But it does involve conjecture.

I do believe Tyson was tired of Melo and glad to get away from him, but it is an assumption, not a definitive assertion. I don't really care at this point TBH.

My baseline assumption after five years is pretty firm that Melo is not a highly co-operative, unity building, team oriented individual.

What I do find funny is people sometimes protest such a notion, but they NEVER assert the opposite. I never hear about how great a team ball player and collaborator is. Only protests. That gets kind of silly after a while when there is only contrariness, but no assertions to counter the objections.

Has anyone been able to say these positive things about Melo? Why not? Only objections to the criticisms. That is pretty telling IMO.

A friend of mine is good friends with and has known Jason Kidd since he was a freshman in High school. He has told me that Kidd loves Melo, and enjoyed playing with him. That is the only first hand source that I have. Are there any first hand sources for your assumption or what you believe?

Your reference is a second-hand source in any case. A first hand source would be you knowing Melo personally.

No, I do not have a first or second hand source.

Jason Kidd admitted there was no major friction

Between he, Jimmy Jackson, and Jamal Mashburn in Dallas

Over Toni Braxton

Jason Kidd also while here said Melo was comparable to Dirk

One could be 1st person or 100th person source to Kidd it wouldn't make a lick of difference

Unless that source is Jack Daniels

TeamBall wrote:

Splat wrote:

TeamBall wrote:
Yes I absolutely thought that was messed up on Melo's part. Not good at all. Had triple said that, I wouldn't have had any problems.

I don't know, we can all get pretty contentious about this stuff. But if you knew that, do you need to challenge them on their assumption that Melo wanted Lin out? I mean you knew the context, its not like we all have to re-explain everything everytime. Right?

Anyway, there are some pretty factual things and then there are assumptions regarding Melo's ability to get along with others. At this point, I would find it hard to take someone seriously if they claimed Melo doesn't have these issues.

It certainly is not about comparing personalities, i.e. Lin vs. Melo. Melo is not a WWE villain in demeanor. That stuff is not terribly relevant and if someone wants to say you can't judge a book by its cover, not only are they somewhat correct, but it goes both ways. You can no more assert what makes him tick by whether he seems pleasant or not any more than you can dismiss it. That is a fairly subjective thing.

What is more substantive are historically known facts about Melo. There are plenty (if someone asks me to list them I'll just assume they are lazy and want me to injure my fingers typing).

His ability to get along with players and coaches is not some random thing used to character assassinate Melo by haterz. Not saying you were saying that to Triple. But it is said here all the time. And that's lame, because it is at the core of the issues whirling around Melo. If he can't get along and can't lead, he's basically an expensive pea shooter, not a foundational player and that is a problem.

I don't know, we can all get pretty contentious about this stuff. But if you knew that, do you need to challenge them on their assumption that Melo wanted Lin out? I mean you knew the context, its not like we all have to re-explain everything everytime. Right?

Yes. Melo commenting on his contract doesn't mean he didn't want him here. The most logical thing you can pull from that, without knowing everything behind the scenes, is that the relationship between the 2 got a soured a bit after that comment. Some guy just ran an article with unnamed sources that melo was jealous and everyone ran with it.

Anyway, there are some pretty factual things and then there are assumptions regarding Melo's ability to get along with others. At this point, I would find it hard to take someone seriously if they claimed Melo doesn't have these issues.

When dealing with the facts, I have no issue. However, most people's assumptions are an extension of their already biased opinions (it goes both ways. It's not always anti-melo).

It certainly is not about comparing personalities, i.e. Lin vs. Melo. Melo is not a WWE villain in demeanor. That stuff is not terribly relevant and if someone wants to say you can't judge a book by its cover, not only are they somewhat correct, but it goes both ways. You can no more assert what makes him tick by whether he seems pleasant or not any more than you can dismiss it. That is a fairly subjective thing.

Read triple threats post. He made it comparing personalities.

His ability to get along with players and coaches is not some random thing used to character assassinate Melo by haterz. Not saying you were saying that to Triple. But it is said here all the time. And that's lame, because it is at the core of the issues whirling around Melo. If he can't get along and can't lead, he's basically an expensive pea shooter, not a foundational player and that is a problem.

People rarely actually provide any proof that he couldn't get along with a ton of players though. There's D'antoni which was clear and then who? The Lin thing fine. I just disagree. But the Tyson part was pulled out of no where especially since he said himself he was going to try and recruit Melo.