dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Some of you get what i'm saying and most don't. YES the Triangle usually has a PG who is a good passer and a great shooter, but what has been missing from our offense is a player who can create when the D closes off the options in the Triangle and you need someone to create and get inside the defense and break it down, which creates either a shot or drive for that player or a pass to a now open teammate. I'm not saying that a PG who can get to the basket is the normal prescriptions for a Triangle team. Just that if they did have Dragic or any guard who had this ability and used it effectively it would have made a huge difference. ON the Knicks it was supposed to be our SG's/SF's that provided a good amount of scoring and to get to the basket on a regular basis off drives and cuts. We haven't really gotten that but whenever we did it was very successful in helping the scoring. JR had one game where he was able to drive attack the basket and it helped a lot. It also helps whenever Shump or THJ would drive and get inside. Jose wasn't brought here to do this as it was already known he was not a guard who attacked the basket. This is fine as long as you have SOMEONE on your team who can do this in addition to being able to catch and shoot. This was supposed to be what we got from our SG's. It can't only be just midrange jumpers as teams will adjust to this and take it away.
This is why there have been opportunities for Larkin, Shump, JR, THJ, Jose and Prigs but they are reluctant to take those drive opportunities and it hurts the team greatly. We've all watched the games and have noted this problem. I'm not saying that you fix ALL the teams problems with a PG like Dragic or a SG or SF who has the ability to get to the basket, but it adds that missing dynamic to the Triangle that this team in particular has missed. It would positively impact the efficiency of this offense to add that threat to what they already do and it could've led to wins in a lot of those close games where we just could't score late in games. Remember 3-16 in games that were within 5 pts in the last 5 minutes. Most think it's been our defense but really it's also been an inability to score late in games that has killed this team. This team should be a MUCH better offensive team than it has been with the scorers they have. 3-16 in close games where they were within 5 pts in the lst 5 minutes!!! That's 16 winnable games that they lost of the 25 losses. No they may not have won all or maybe even most but the record could've been better if from day one they had a player who could supplement the shot creator and penetrator role we lack.
it is the defense more than anything. you don't get stops when you're behind then it's just trading baskets. and you leave out the fact-- nice attempt at a gloss-- that in the vast majority of these games the knicks are coming from behind because they do not play defense for 24 seconds of every possession.
the players we have do not execute the triangle offense well-- is that a personnel/talent/skill issue or an attitude issue? here is a quote from a bleacherreport in another thread:
"Beyond all of that, the Knicks have few players who are well suited to the triangle offense, a read-and-react system that requires quick decisions, crisp passing and a high basketball IQ.
Watching the Knicks meander through their sets Tuesday night, Charley Rosen—a triangle scholar and Jackson confidant (after serving as an assistant coach for Jackson in the CBA)—could hardly contain his disgust.
"Everybody's out of position," Rosen said, while the Knicks quickly fell behind the Dallas Mavericks in what became their 22nd loss. "If everybody doesn't do their job, then the whole thing falls apart," Rosen said. "If one guy messes up, it doesn't work."
The triangle works best with a skilled big man who can catch the ball in the low post and force the defense to adjust, opening other options. The Knicks don't have that player. They also lack three-point shooters, playmakers and defenders, which would handicap any team.
If the Lakers and Bulls ran 100 percent of the triangle's actions, exploiting every nuance and countermove, the Knicks are using maybe 25-30 percent, according to Rosen. And what they are running, they're not running well.
"They're very slow in coming to their assigned spots," he said, "which messes up their spacing, messes up their timing, makes it easier to defend. They don't set weak-side picks, which negates a lot of the movement."
It was that sort of action, Rosen noted, that the Bulls used repeatedly to get Horace Grant open midrange jumpers. Grant made a living off those plays.
Simply put, these Knicks aren't committed enough to make the offense work as it should.
"Their attitude is, 'OK, I'm supposed to set a pick, but I really want to cut to the basket,'" Rosen said. "So they don't want to work hard, and they don't see how it's advantageous to them. Because they may be two passes away, three passes away from getting a good shot. But they want to be a dribble away from getting a good shot."
Tex Winter, the triangle architect and Jackson's mentor, used to say the triangle was not just an offense but a philosophy. It required a certain amount of selflessness and sacrifice, which the Knicks have yet to display.
"It's not the triangle that's the problem," Rosen said. "It's them."
USA TODAY Sports
In the players' defense, it's probably difficult to make a full commitment when most of them know they will be gone by next season. The Knicks' larger agenda is to leverage their salary-cap room next summer to acquire a second star, or several impact players, which means cutting ties with most of this roster. Nearly every Knick is available in trade right now, which they surely understand.
As Fisher noted earlier this week, "On top of that they're being asked to sacrifice more and do less in order to win, so it's not a great combination for cohesion and team chemistry."
where is the leadership on this team that will make every player perform their role properly? there is no prevailing "philosophy" without leadership. dragic is a very good player but is not the answer for the knicks.
I don't disagree with any of this. To be more to the point we all know this team is flawed and not the exact team that Phil is looking to put together. We all know that most of these guys may not be back. The point of the thread I was addressing was if adding a player like Dragic from the start of the season would've made a difference and I think it would've helped. Of course that can't solve all of the problems but it would've helped if you remember the early struggles this team needed a better option at PG and another quality player.
If part of the problem is a lack of talent then surely adding another talented player would help. It's like saying that adding CP3 or Wall or any other talented player would've have made a no difference. We're talking about adding to the talent on the team and bringing skills this team lacks to the mix. No one is saying that Dragic is the answer to all that ails the team or that he's even the best option. This team has many needs and this roster wasn't going to be the best roster even if things went as well as expected this team was going to be changed.
In the end none of this matters. Change is coming and was always coming!!!
12/25/2014 2:21 PM
