smackeddog wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Calderon will look better when he has better players around him.

Ugly dudes doesnt look as ugly with fine bitches either, because no one looks at the ugly dude anymore. Calderon is an awful player. Surrounding him with better talent should indicate you dont need calderon. He's been an NBA loser his entire career. he's never lead a team to success on this level.

last seasons Mavs?

So you're saying if we had Dirk instead of Carmelo

He would be able to cover the sins of Calderon

Or are you saying make sure we have a good enough team

Around him so when it's winning time he sits 4th qrts

Agreed, now ask yourself how many Dirk's are there in this league

And do we even have comparable talent and coach to accomplish what they're doing-did

No, the poster said Calderon has only played on loser teams and never good teams- I was saying he played on a good team last year. But lets go back to pretending we're all stupid! Calderon MADE all of his teams lose! Remind me which teams he played on that he should have elevated to a higher level? I don't even like Calderon, but I think thats just daft. My misgivings regarding him were hollow stats and I still believe that- I don't think he really impacts the game either way.

This is an interesting reply because when he was much younger

Playing in Toronto and in the so called terrible East

After Bosh left it was alottery losing there

But ironically Lowry takes the same set of players[some core and comparable talent] and elevates

Not to being just a winning team but one of the best teams

In the entire NBA, who are we trying to fool here Jose played

Backup to Jarrett Jack in Toronto and I think at one point to Mike James[might have to verify if correct]

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Calderon will look better when he has better players around him.

Ugly dudes doesnt look as ugly with fine bitches either, because no one looks at the ugly dude anymore. Calderon is an awful player. Surrounding him with better talent should indicate you dont need calderon. He's been an NBA loser his entire career. he's never lead a team to success on this level.

last seasons Mavs?

They're better off without him though. There's a difference between leading a team to success and simply being on a successful team.

They're better off because of adding Tyson and Parsons. To be honest I think the loss of Calderon had no impact. I think he's probably a neutral player who can play an okay role in the right situation (last years Mavs).

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Calderon will look better when he has better players around him.

Ugly dudes doesnt look as ugly with fine bitches either, because no one looks at the ugly dude anymore. Calderon is an awful player. Surrounding him with better talent should indicate you dont need calderon. He's been an NBA loser his entire career. he's never lead a team to success on this level.

last seasons Mavs?

They're better off without him though. There's a difference between leading a team to success and simply being on a successful team.

They're better off because of adding Tyson and Parsons. To be honest I think the loss of Calderon had no impact. I think he's probably a neutral player who can play an okay role in the right situation (last years Mavs).

That's a fair statement but then you can't cite him as leading that team to success.

Why ignore the fact they added Jameer and J.J. Berea

And turned the keys completely over to Monta

Trying to have it both ways will always betray

It's possible that Jose has hit the age wall, but it's also just possible that he's having a bad 14 games. In any event he's shown himself to be a better player than this. Most of the time he's been a PG in the normal PnR style offenses like he had in Toronto and Detroit, but even last year as more of a SG he was able to be effective and efficient.

SEASON	TEAM   GP  GS	MIN	FGM-A	 FG%	3PM-A	 3P%	FTM-A	FT%	OR	DR	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
'12-'13	DET    28  28	31.7	4.5-8.5	.527	1.8-3.5	.520	0.9-1.0	.893	0.2	2.3	2.5	6.6	0.1	1.1	1.5	1.8	11.6
'12-'13	TOR    45  30	28.3	4.2-8.8	.470	1.8-4.1	.429	1.0-1.2	.904	0.3	2.0	2.4	7.4	0.1	0.6	1.3	1.7	11.1
'13-'14	DAL    81  81	30.5	4.2-9.2	.456	2.4-5.2	.449	0.6-0.8	.825	0.4	2.0	2.4	4.7	0.1	0.9	1.7	1.3	11.4
'14-'15	NY     14  14	29.7	3.2-7.5	.429	1.6-3.7	.423	0.2-0.2	1.000	0.8	2.5	3.3	4.1	0.0	0.9	1.5	1.4	8.2

As you can see he's mainly a very consistent player. He's never been a high scoring PG. His shooting ability was supposed to be very good in the Triangle PG role. He's just been off his game a bit so far this year. We have to remember he had a very long layoff due to his calf strain and who knows what his level of conditioning and game form is at. It's just kind of rough to get on him for 14 poor games under the circumstances. There's a lot more going on than Jose's poor play so far. He was supposed to come in and be a facilitator and release 3pt shooter when the defense collapsed into the post. Jose is not here to be the PG of the future for the team. He was supposed to be a stabilizer and spot holder. Things just got off to a bad start.

nixluva wrote:I said this to F500ONE before, but Jose wasn't expected to be an impact player in the sense that you expect a scoring PG to be. Jose in the Triangle was supposed to be what most Triangle PG's are. Move the ball, hit the open 3 etc. It's what most of the Triangle PG's Phil had have done. What Jose doesn't bring is Penetration and defense, so he was never going to be that kind of player. Unfortunately he got off to the bad start and if he isn't hitting his shots and no one is hitting shots off his passes then he's not going to look very good.

It's possible that Jose has hit the age wall, but it's also just possible that he's having a bad 14 games. In any event he's shown himself to be a better player than this. Most of the time he's been a PG in the normal PnR style offenses like he had in Toronto and Detroit, but even last year as more of a SG he was able to be effective and efficient.

SEASON	TEAM   GP  GS	MIN	FGM-A	 FG%	3PM-A	 3P%	FTM-A	FT%	OR	DR	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
'12-'13	DET    28  28	31.7	4.5-8.5	.527	1.8-3.5	.520	0.9-1.0	.893	0.2	2.3	2.5	6.6	0.1	1.1	1.5	1.8	11.6
'12-'13	TOR    45  30	28.3	4.2-8.8	.470	1.8-4.1	.429	1.0-1.2	.904	0.3	2.0	2.4	7.4	0.1	0.6	1.3	1.7	11.1
'13-'14	DAL    81  81	30.5	4.2-9.2	.456	2.4-5.2	.449	0.6-0.8	.825	0.4	2.0	2.4	4.7	0.1	0.9	1.7	1.3	11.4
'14-'15	NY     14  14	29.7	3.2-7.5	.429	1.6-3.7	.423	0.2-0.2	1.000	0.8	2.5	3.3	4.1	0.0	0.9	1.5	1.4	8.2

As you can see he's mainly a very consistent player. He's never been a high scoring PG. His shooting ability was supposed to be very good in the Triangle PG role. He's just been off his game a bit so far this year. We have to remember he had a very long layoff due to his calf strain and who knows what his level of conditioning and game form is at. It's just kind of rough to get on him for 14 poor games under the circumstances. There's a lot more going on than Jose's poor play so far. He was supposed to come in and be a facilitator and release 3pt shooter when the defense collapsed into the post. Jose is not here to be the PG of the future for the team. He was supposed to be a stabilizer and spot holder. Things just got off to a bad start.

Nix I can buy most of this PollyAnn seriously I can

But what we tried to tell you Calderon is not the caliber of PG

To mitigate all the problems we were facing heading into the season

Injuries happen, we get it but it's not an ironclad excuse

Would you agree Demar Derozan is a better player than Calderon

I hope you would being genuine and honest-hearted but the Raptors

Haven't skipped a beat in his injury absence

Calderon is an expensive and old spot holder

Phil should have waited until December to make moves

Anyone look at our 5's?
Anyone look at our guards NOT name Calderon?

Amare is playing good stat building ball right now.

The guy avg.s 28 min per game and about 10 pts per and 6 assists. He's about 8 and 4 after 14 games. Dude was injured and I doubt got much practice on the triangle.
Excuse? Nope. Reason? Yep.

This guy is not the root of our problem.

Season ▴,Age,Tm,Lg,Pos,G,GS,MP ,FG,FGA, FG%, 3P,3PA,3P%,2P,2PA,2P%,FT,FTA, FT%,ORB,DRB,TRB,AST,STL,BLK,TOV,PF, PTS
2005-06,24,TOR,NBA,SG,64,11,23.2,2.1,4.9,.423,0.1,0.7,.163,2.0,4.2,.465,1.2,1.4,.848,0.5,1.7,2.2,4.5,0.7,0.1,1.6,1.5,5.5
2006-07,25,TOR,NBA,PG,77,11,21.0,3.4,6.6,.521,0.3,1.0,.333,3.1,5.6,.553,1.5,1.9,.818,0.3,1.5,1.7,5.0,0.8,0.1,1.4,1.8,8.7
2007-08,26,TOR,NBA,PG,82,56,30.3,4.5,8.6,.519,1.0,2.2,.429,3.5,6.4,.551,1.3,1.5,.908,0.4,2.5,2.9,8.3,1.1,0.1,1.5,1.6,11.2
2008-09,27,TOR,NBA,PG,68,68,34.3,4.7,9.5,.497,1.2,3.0,.406,3.5,6.5,.538,2.2,2.3,.981,0.2,2.6,2.9,8.9,1.1,0.1,2.1,1.7,12.8
2009-10,28,TOR,NBA,PG,68,39,26.7,4.0,8.4,.482,1.0,2.5,.398,3.0,5.8,.519,1.2,1.5,.798,0.3,1.8,2.1,5.9,0.7,0.1,1.5,2.0,10.3
2010-11,29,TOR,NBA,PG,68,55,30.9,3.9,8.8,.440,0.8,2.3,.365,3.0,6.5,.466,1.3,1.5,.854,0.4,2.5,3.0,8.9,1.2,0.1,2.2,2.1,9.8
2011-12,30,TOR,NBA,PG,53,53,33.9,4.1,9.0,.457,1.1,3.0,.371,3.0,6.0,.500,1.1,1.3,.882,0.4,2.7,3.0,8.8,0.9,0.1,2.0,1.8,10.5
2012-13,31,TOT,NBA,PG,73,58,29.6,4.3,8.7,.491,1.8,3.9,.461,2.5,4.8,.516,1.0,1.1,.900,0.3,2.1,2.4,7.1,0.8,0.1,1.7,1.4,11.3
2013-14,32,DAL,NBA,PG,81,81,30.5,4.2,9.2,.456,2.4,5.2,.449,1.9,4.0,.464,0.6,0.8,.825,0.4,2.0,2.4,4.7,0.9,0.1,1.3,1.7,11.4
2014-15,33,NYK,NBA,PG,14,14,29.7,3.2,7.5,.429,1.6,3.7,.423,1.6,3.8,.434,0.2,0.2, 1.000,0.8,2.5,3.3,4.1,0.9,0.0,1.4,1.5,8.2
Career,,, NBA,,648,446,28.8,3.9,8.2,.478,1.1,2.7,.412,2.8,5.5,.511,1.3,1.4,.874,0.4,2.1,2.5,6.8,0.9,0.1,1.7,1.7,10.2
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
8 seasons, ,TOR,NBA,,525,323,28.4,3.9,8.0,.481,0.9,2.2,.388,3.0,5.8,.517,1.4,1.6,.877,0.4,2.1,2.5,7.2,0.9,0.1,1.7,1.7,10.0
1 season,,DAL,NBA,, 81,81,30.5,4.2,9.2,.456,2.4,5.2,.449,1.9,4.0,.464,0.6,0.8,.825,0.4,2.0,2.4,4.7,0.9,0.1,1.3,1.7,11.4
1 season,,DET,NBA,, 28,28,31.7,4.5,8.5,.527,1.8,3.5,.520,2.6,5.0,.532,0.9,1.0,.893,0.2,2.3,2.5,6.6,1.1,0.1,1.8,1.5,11.6
1 season,,NYK,NBA,, 14,14,29.7,3.2,7.5,.429,1.6,3.7,.423,1.6,3.8,.434,0.2,0.2,1.000,0.8,2.5,3.3,4.1,0.9,0.0,1.4,1.5,8.2

Nalod wrote:Calderone is not the root of our problems.
His contract is not the root of our problems.
This guy is not why we suck.

Anyone look at our 5's?

You mean the 5 that we traded away to get 3 years of Calderone? You mean the expiring contract that was Tyson Chandler?
Someone remind me again why Phil made that trade? Oh, right addition by subtraction. That's brilliant.

VCoug wrote:

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:Calderone is not the root of our problems.
His contract is not the root of our problems.
This guy is not why we suck.

Anyone look at our 5's?

You mean the 5 that we traded away to get 3 years of Calderone? You mean the expiring contract that was Tyson Chandler?
Someone remind me again why Phil made that trade? Oh, right addition by subtraction. That's brilliant.

The real reason we made that trade was because Tyson and Melo don't like each other and Phil Jackson wanted to resign Melo. Any other excuse is a bunch of bull.

you sure that it wasn't a tyson and amare issue?

mreinman wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:Calderone is not the root of our problems.
His contract is not the root of our problems.
This guy is not why we suck.

Anyone look at our 5's?

You mean the 5 that we traded away to get 3 years of Calderone? You mean the expiring contract that was Tyson Chandler?
Someone remind me again why Phil made that trade? Oh, right addition by subtraction. That's brilliant.

The real reason we made that trade was because Tyson and Melo don't like each other and Phil Jackson wanted to resign Melo. Any other excuse is a bunch of bull.

you sure that it wasn't a tyson and amare issue?

No it has been documented by posters on this board other than Vcoug. Tyson just sends out smoke screens like trying to recruit Melo to Dallas or that he feels sorry for Melo. Like we should believe that when UK posters have the inside info.

nixluva wrote:Do we just forget the Draft pick situation and Larkin when talking about the deal? It's easy to just pick on Jose as if he's been here for years destroying the team. Dude came off an injury and has played in 14 games. Is this some final judgement on what kind of player he is for this team? The bigger issue is the SG spot. that's where the scoring was supposed to come from. JR playing poorly and then injured, THJ up and down, Shump up and down and then injured. Bargs in the Bermuda Triangle or witness protection. Melo playing hurt and not at his usual level and all of this puts pressure on Jose who isn't at his best. If Jose was playing at his usual level we wouldn't be having this conversation. Since he's been slumping and the team losing it's all so easy to talk ish about the guy. What do people say if he starts playing at his usual level?

NO Jose is not the full time answer for this teams future and he never was supposed to be. He is a solid PG who can help a team execute and stabilize the offense until we find the permanent lead PG. Just cuz he's been off his game after missing time it's the usual crap being tossed around as if he's a bum and he's not. It's just a tough spot for a guy to be in and there seems to be no sense of reason on assessing his role around here which is the usual par for the course.

You dont pay 7.5mm for a player to hopefully stabilize a position--of which he hasnt. Were going to have to be aggressive upgrading PG even if we get a big in the draft. My bet is there are 3-4 rookie PG who will be superior to Calderon year 1. This is kind of a freak year for big PG's. Steve Alford's son is better than Calderon right this minute as is Mudiay Russell Wright Grant and Jones

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Do we just forget the Draft pick situation and Larkin when talking about the deal? It's easy to just pick on Jose as if he's been here for years destroying the team. Dude came off an injury and has played in 14 games. Is this some final judgement on what kind of player he is for this team? The bigger issue is the SG spot. that's where the scoring was supposed to come from. JR playing poorly and then injured, THJ up and down, Shump up and down and then injured. Bargs in the Bermuda Triangle or witness protection. Melo playing hurt and not at his usual level and all of this puts pressure on Jose who isn't at his best. If Jose was playing at his usual level we wouldn't be having this conversation. Since he's been slumping and the team losing it's all so easy to talk ish about the guy. What do people say if he starts playing at his usual level?

NO Jose is not the full time answer for this teams future and he never was supposed to be. He is a solid PG who can help a team execute and stabilize the offense until we find the permanent lead PG. Just cuz he's been off his game after missing time it's the usual crap being tossed around as if he's a bum and he's not. It's just a tough spot for a guy to be in and there seems to be no sense of reason on assessing his role around here which is the usual par for the course.

i dont have a problem with jose but i have never been a fan. I like his shooting but thats it and i dont like that contract. However compared to bargnani he is a steal lol

Technically, Bargs is a zero and since you need something to compare to in order to quantify relative value, Jose is no bargain by comparison. He is simply the dead weight of another long-term bad contract for a player who barely contributes.